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Thread: 10 facts

  1. #401
    James Banta
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes, I get that--no "modern" translation bases salvation on keeping the commandments. But the original, I am sure, did as Christ taught us to keep his commandments.

    Once again, though, moving the goal posts by using the word "complete"--which I am sure you will spin to "perfectly" as you have already done in your new thread.
    It is taught in the Bible that we must keep the commandments of God (Proverbs 19:16).. Jesus also said that we must be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect (Matthew 5:48). Since not one of us has been able to keep God's commandments or even approach His level of righteousness, according to what you are telling me we all should be ****ed.. So are the "modern" translations including the King James are wrong as they teach that our salvation is given to those who have faith in Jesus according to His Grace (Eph 2:8-9). Is it wrong to say that Jesus became sin in our place so that we can be MADE the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21)? Is it wrong that we hold our salvation to be by grace and exclude works (Romans 11:6)..

    Are you saying that these p***ages were the invention of evil men. That such p***ages are not scripture but outside the Authority of God? Are you so mistrusting of the Lord as He said that heaven and earth would p*** away but His word would never p*** away (Matthew 24:35).. The Original says the very same thing as the modern translations. God's word is NOT corrupt based on the promises of God in His word, and He will not lie. Not in the p***, not in the present and not in the future.. Argue with me tell me all the times the Bible was translated and re-translated. Tell me about all the time it was copied and recopied. All I have to make my point are the promises of Jesus (God). Still I believe Him, therefore His promises trump anything you think you know about errors of the Bible.. You seem to trust what you believe to be knowledge presented to you by men. On the other hand I trust the words of the Lord..

    Tell me what isn't complete about the word obedience? Anything less than complete obedience is disobedience.. If a man falls into the mud and just s****es it off without at least taking a shower is he clean? NO! He isn't clean until He is completely clean. There is no such thing and partial obedience.. Complete obedience is the only way to be obedient, anything less is disobedience.. IHS jim
    Last edited by James Banta; 05-15-2014 at 02:06 PM.

  2. #402
    neverending
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Do you believe that the changes that Joseph Smith made in the JST are correct and the KJV is wrong in the places that he changed?
    Hey Billy, since the LDS don't use JST, we can then ***ume that what JS did was bad, wrong and can't be used at all. If JS was such a wonderful prophet and hand picked by God to restore His Church, then how could JS be wrong? HMMMM......something sure smells fishy to me. Guess, King James knew more about translating a Bible then a prophet wouldn't you agree?

  3. #403
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Wait, what happened to "completely wrong"---are you changing the goal posts again? I love how you make an accusation using a definitive statement such as "completely" and then you change it up when you actually ask the question.
    I would characterized it as "completely wrong" since there are so many changes that Joseph made but you may choose a different word. Perhaps you could give me a word that you would be comfortable using and I will consider using that word instead. BTW I just pulled down my JST on of the shelf and it has 523 pages of changes--on one column is the so called inspired version and on the other column is the KJV verses--i.e. a parallel translation. 523 pages of changes are a lot of changes.

    Do you believe that the changes that Joseph Smith made in the JST are correct and the KJV is wrong in the places that he changed?

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    I would characterized it as "completely wrong" since there are so many changes that Joseph made but you may choose a different word. Perhaps you could give me a word that you would be comfortable using and I will consider using that word instead. BTW I just pulled down my JST on of the shelf and it has 523 pages of changes--on one column is the so called inspired version and on the other column is the KJV verses--i.e. a parallel translation. 523 pages of changes are a lot of changes.

    Do you believe that the changes that Joseph Smith made in the JST are correct and the KJV is wrong in the places that he changed?
    At times, mistranslated or misinterpreted.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  5. #405
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    At times, mistranslated or misinterpreted.
    1. Wouldn't you say that 523 pages of corrections is a pretty significant alteration of the KJV Bible?

    2. Do you believe that the changes that Joseph Smith made in the JST are correct and the KJV is wrong in the places that he changed?

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    1. Wouldn't you say that 523 pages of corrections is a pretty significant alteration of the KJV Bible?

    2. Do you believe that the changes that Joseph Smith made in the JST are correct and the KJV is wrong in the places that he changed?
    Nope, most are very small and the Bible is very big.

    I think that the mul***ude of new translations of the Bible tells me that you think the KJV is wrong I places and would be better if changed---and I even pointed to a place where you provided the NIV over the KJV when trying to make your point. So, your point now?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #407
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Nope, most are very small and the Bible is very big.
    Not sure what you meant exactly by your answer--could you clarify it for me.

    1. Nope you don't think that 523 pages of alterations is a significant alteration of the KJV

    2. Nope you don't believe that the changes that Joseph made in the JST are correct

  8. #408
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I think that the mul***ude of new translations of the Bible tells me that you think the KJV is wrong I places and would be better if changed
    The newer translations are certainly easier to read but the doctrine in the KJV is the same doctrine that is in the modern translations such as the ESV or the NASB. Also in the modern translations they make note of textual variants and notations where text has been added that was not in the early m****cripts.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    and I even pointed to a place where you provided the NIV over the KJV when trying to make your point. So, your point now?
    I actually started a thread on this exact subject so I hope you will continue to discuss it there--but already you have admitted that keeping the commandments is not a requirement for salvation. So as I said before the KJV and the NIV agree that salvation is not based on obedience to the commandments.

  9. #409
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    The newer translations are certainly easier to read but the doctrine in the KJV is the same doctrine that is in the modern translations such as the ESV or the NASB. Also in the modern translations they make note of textual variants and notations where text has been added that was not in the early m****cripts.
    So, do you believe there are JST that change the basic meanings?

    I actually started a thread on this exact subject so I hope you will continue to discuss it there--but already you have admitted that keeping the commandments is not a requirement for salvation. So as I said before the KJV and the NIV agree that salvation is not based on obedience to the commandments.
    What??
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #410
    Billyray
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    [QUOTE=BigJulie;157351]
    So, do you believe there are JST that change the basic meanings?
    Absolutely. In fact he adds all sorts of stuff that is not in the KJV.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Absolutely. In fact he adds all sorts of stuff that is not in the KJV.
    And I feel that way about some of the other translations...I read it and think it changes the basic meaning.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  12. #412
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    I actually started a thread on this exact subject so I hope you will continue to discuss it there--but already you have admitted that keeping the commandments is not a requirement for salvation. So as I said before the KJV and the NIV agree that salvation is not based on obedience to the commandments.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    What??
    I thought that you already admitted that keeping all of the commandments is not a requirement for salvation. It seems from your response that you now do believe that keeping all the commandments is a requirement for salvation. Could you let me know where you really stand on this issue?

  13. #413
    Billyray
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And I feel that way about some of the other translations...I read it and think it changes the basic meaning.
    Great. Another good topic for discussion. I will start a new thread on this subject.

  14. #414
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    once again we have to remember the type of point of view we have when talking about the topic.

    god is not "in the grasp" of time p***ing.

    So God looks at all of time as if its a finished painting....
    What I mean by this is that God does not have to "think back"...or does not have to "glance ahead"
    Its all just a finished "thing" to God.


    But we are trapped within the grasp of time.
    We have moments that age us....we get older...

    so we look at the p***ing of time like we are reading a book...one page follows another/one moment of our lives follows another.


    Now because we are talking about the nature of God...even my image of a painting breaks down because of the simple fact that god is unlike us so much that any effort to understand him will fail.
    So when I say God kinda looks at the universe and time like we look at a painting, what Im dealing with is that fact that when we look at a painting there is no "implied time" to it like there is to a book.

    With a book you clearly see where the start is, and where the end is.
    But when you look at a painting there is no start....you don't have to start at one place, scan across, then drop down a line to see the "next" moment.

    The painting is all at once, all the same.

    God is kinda like that when he looks at time.
    God is not here in my "now" any more than he is currently watching my mom being born....or watching the Big bang, or watching the 2nd Coming of Christ.
    Its all the same to God because he is outside the grasp of time.

    God has no personal past....no possible future....no next moment.

    God does not get older, God was never any younger.

    God is not connected or effected by this thing we call "time"



    still one of my better posts on the nature of God...

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    You have been refuted so many times by LDS here, James, that by this point I can't help but think you are completely aware when and how you are bearing false witness. (To the readers, some of these are true, but many are half truths and some purely untrue.)
    Sorry Julie but your CLAIMS are not 'refutations' at all; all they are is EMPTY CLAIMS.

    IF you think you can do so, SHOW US those 'untruths' and 'half-truths' with EVIDENCE (not just your EMPTY CLAIMS) that they are indeed UNTRUE or "HALF-TRUTHS."

    IF you cannot do that, you have NOTHING FROM REALITY TO SHOW ANYONE WITH ANY BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE OR HALF A MIND.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    ....spoken like a true Pharisee.

    Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so p***ed by."


    And I must admit, when I stand up for what I know here, it feels like there are many who stand in wait to cast stones. In a very small way, I can understand what it means to know truth by the power of the Holy Ghost and be rebuked for it.
    Jesus, you aint. We CHRISTIANS know the truth by the power of the HOLY GHOST and by GOD'S OWN WORD, the Bible.

    Too bad you have only an evil spirit POSING as your 'holy' ghost, but telling you lies according to God's Word, the BIBLE

    Sorry Julie, but why should I waste perfectly good stones on YOU? I'll just leave that to GOD.


  17. #417
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    So how much of joey smith's horse-dung that is NOT officially written down as doctrine (teachings) that your religious cult teaches you anyway, like food storage, magical underwear, your god once being a man, didn't change, but is now a god? Those things your cult teaches but aren't 'official?'

  18. #418
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    The belief that it's a good idea to store emergency food is horse dung to the Haters of a church?

    Yeah, I guess pretty much any common sense idea would freak them out.
    Last edited by Phoenix; 06-13-2016 at 10:32 AM.
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The belief that it's a good idea to store emergency food is horse dung to the Haters of a church?

    Yeah, I guess pretty much any common sense idea would freak them out.

    Let's see now. . .store dried food for 20 years FOR THE PURPOSE OF HAVING IT DURING A DISASTER while you let your neighbors starve. . .Or shoot them to keep them from stealing it. . .Yah' good idea. . .not


    Matt 6:19-21
    19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    NKJV


    Just IGNORING JESUS is ALWAYS a good idea, or so you seem to think! Besides that, you can make $$$$ by selling dehydrators to your follyers.

    We CHRISTIANS believe and obey Jesus. We don't follow YOUR poorly-un-thought-out manmade ideas.

    Not even if YOU think they are 'good.'

  20. #420
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    Default Make quick money off your follyers. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    The belief that it's a good idea to store emergency food is horse dung to the Haters of a church?

    Yeah, I guess pretty much any common sense idea would freak them out.

    Let's see now. . .store dried food for 20 years FOR THE PURPOSE OF HAVING IT DURING A DISASTER while you let your neighbors starve. . .Or shoot them to keep them from stealing it. . .Yah' good idea. . .not


    Matt 6:19-21
    19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    NKJV


    Just IGNORING JESUS is ALWAYS a good idea, or so you seem to think! Besides that, you can make $$$$ by selling dehydrators to your follyers.

    We CHRISTIANS believe and obey Jesus. We don't follow YOUR poorly-un-thought-out manmade ideas.

    Not even if YOU think they are 'good.'

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Let's see now. . .store dried food for 20 years FOR THE PURPOSE OF HAVING IT DURING A DISASTER while you let your neighbors starve.
    prove that i let my neighbors starve.

    Haters of the LDS let them starve in the 1840s.

    you are probably ignorant of the times when LDS people donated their stored food to disaster victims.

    Or shoot them to keep them from stealing it. . .
    not sure what you are reading that you think is LDS scriptures. my scriptures don't command me to shoot anyone.

    [pWe CHRISTIANS believe and obey Jesus.
    do you obey what Jesus taught in the parable of the wise and foolish virgins? did the wise virgins share their oil with their foolish neighbors who didn't have any oil?

    If someone broke into your home at 2 AM to steal from you, can you guarantee that you wouldn't shoot them?
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  22. #422
    MickeyS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post

    Let's see now. . .store dried food for 20 years FOR THE PURPOSE OF HAVING IT DURING A DISASTER while you let your neighbors starve. . .Or shoot them to keep them from stealing it. . .Yah' good idea. . .not


    Matt 6:19-21
    19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    NKJV


    Just IGNORING JESUS is ALWAYS a good idea, or so you seem to think! Besides that, you can make $$$$ by selling dehydrators to your follyers.

    We CHRISTIANS believe and obey Jesus. We don't follow YOUR poorly-un-thought-out manmade ideas.

    Not even if YOU think they are 'good.'
    Wait a minute....it's a poor idea un-thought out idea to have food storage and be prepared for any sort of possible disaster??? I think it's the OPPOSITE of "unthought out"

    As far as "laying up treasures"....you're kidding me with that, right? Do you seriously think that emergency food storage that would take care of your family in case of a disaster is "laid up TREASURE"?? How do you call life necessities "treasure"?Please don't tell me you truly believe that.

    1 Timothy 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

    We are tasked to provide for and take care of our families. Do you believe that we are only required to take care of our families to an extent? Like we should only provide for our family's needs only a week at a time, maybe a month at the most? You know emergency food storage can also help a struggling family that is falling on hard financial times and is having a difficult time putting food on the table. But we shouldn't worry about that huh?

    Then you must also believe God wants us to live paycheck to paycheck also and not "lay up" the "treasure" of a savings account in case somebody loses their ***. Do you believe that as well?

    Boy, I hope nothing bad ever happens to your family.

    Also....that's a terrible thing to accuse church members of "letting their neighbor's starve" Where on earth do you get that?? But thats interesting. Didn't you just say "Christians" trust Jesus? I'm ***uming you mean that they don't need to prepare for anything and will be taken care of in case of a disaster, right? How do you think they'd be taken care of? Would Jesus Himself come down and hand your family some food?? Please elaborate as to what you think would happen and how they would be fed.
    Last edited by MickeyS; 06-16-2016 at 05:08 PM.

  23. #423
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    julie posted:

    Originally Posted by Billyray
    BigJ that statement is such a joke. You have been shown over and over again how you don't believe what the Bible says and then you have the nerve to say that.
    ....spoken like a true Pharisee.

    It looks like you are the only one laughing at your joke julie. The TRUTH hurts, doesn't it? Billyray's statement is TRUE, of course.


    (In other words, you have refuted me only in your mind, just as the Pharisees believed they refuted Christ by what they believed the Bible said--because they did not see what He did. But James does not stand up for what he believes, but rather bears false witness again and again against another's beliefs, regardless of how many times he has been corrected.)

    Here is one example of the Jews "refuting" Christ:

    And I must admit, when I stand up for what I know here, it feels like there are many who stand in wait to cast stones. In a very small way, I can understand what it means to know truth by the power of the Holy Ghost and be rebuked for it.

    <snipped> CHRIST you aint. TRUTHFUL you aint. You still have not supported your religious views from the BIBLE. ALL you have offered is wild speculation and joe smith junk (when it serves your purpose).

    You ALSO know what it is like when HEATHENS think they know the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost (like the white supremacists and followers of charles manson did), but in reality only know what they believed without any such help.

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