10 facts

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Pandering isn't it to have a cultist like Julie on your side Libby? You are in total denial that your trip into idolatry is still hanging over you.. You can judge your position by who your friends are looks like you are much close to the LDS than you are to Jesus.. You think you are right in calling me a liar.. I am convinced that I am right calling you an Idolator.. IHS jim

I'll take a "cultist" like Julie any day over your arrogant babblings, James.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

I'll take a "cultist" like Julie any day over your arrogant babblings, James.

Well as long as you are unwilling to call my "arrogant babblings" incorrect as I say you are pandering to the LDS I am happy.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Well as long as you are unwilling to call my "arrogant babblings" incorrect as I say you are pandering to the LDS I am happy.. IHS jim

I think she is willing to call your arrogant babblings incorrect....

[Libby]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I think she is willing to call your arrogant babblings incorrect....

I have James on ignore, so I didn't see that! That's our James, always trying to tell people what to do! But, don't you dare tell him that he might be wrong, because that means you are "pandering"...even if he really IS wrong.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have James on ignore, so I didn't see that! That's our James, always trying to tell people what to do! But, don't you dare tell him that he might be wrong, because that means you are "pandering"...even if he really IS wrong.

Here is what James said originally:

Quote Originally Posted by James Banta View Post

Well as long as you are unwilling to call my "arrogant babblings" incorrect as I say you are pandering to the LDS I am happy.. IHS jim

I had to comment because he got himself in trouble with a double negative and I don't think he realized it.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Oh, are Catholics considered non-Christian?

There are many Catholics who are Christian but the Catholic church has many false teachings.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, I will ask again. Do you agree with the Council of Trent..why or why not?

Are you still trying to argue about the Apocrypha?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

There are many Catholics who are Christian but the Catholic church has many false teachings.

So, with their false teachings--where does that leave Catholics in the eternities--according to you--heaven of hell?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, with their false teachings--where does that leave Catholics in the eternities--according to you--heaven of hell?

The Catholic church is a cult, but it is a Christian cult.. So if a person believes in Christ and only in Him for their salvation they are saved.. To do that they must reject many of their church's tenants. But in doing that the church isn't offended.. If you don't believe in praying to saints, or believing that Mary the mother of Jesus is special, that church doesn't care.. A person can be a "good" Catholic and be a Born Again Christian by God's grace though Faith in Jesus.. A member of the LDS church has no way to remain a believing member as hold that as the means of salvation.. No one is saved by being a Catholic, no one is saved by being a Baptist. In mormonism, church membership is an important step in salvation.. It is taught that there is no salvation outside the LDS church (Elder Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, p.670). No one can enter God's highest heaven unless that Join the LDS church. It is taught that "We Must Be Baptized to Enter the Celestial Kingdom" (Gospel Principles Chapter 20: Baptism). Catholics don't believe a person must be Catholic to be saved.. I guess that is all lies too isn't it? IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

The Catholic church is a cult, but it is a Christian cult.. So if a person believes in Christ and only in Him for their salvation they are saved.. To do that they must reject many of their church's tenants. But in doing that the church isn't offended.. If you don't believe in praying to saints, or believing that Mary the mother of Jesus is special, that church doesn't care.. A person can be a "good" Catholic and be a Born Again Christian by God's grace though Faith in Jesus.. A member of the LDS church has no way to remain a believing member as hold that as the means of salvation.. No one is saved by being a Catholic, no one is saved by being a Baptist. In mormonism, church membership is an important step in salvation.. It is taught that there is no salvation outside the LDS church (Elder Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, p.670). No one can enter God's highest heaven unless that Join the LDS church. It is taught that "We Must Be Baptized to Enter the Celestial Kingdom" (Gospel Principles Chapter 20: Baptism). Catholics don't believe a person must be Catholic to be saved.. I guess that is all lies too isn't it? IHS jim

Other than your consistency in criticizing the LDS faith, your beliefs seem to move all over the place.

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, with their false teachings--where does that leave Catholics in the eternities--according to you--heaven of hell?

You are not saved by a church--that is a mormon belief. As I said before there are many Catholics who are Christian and will be saved. Now can you tell me why you asked "Oh, are Catholics considered non-Christian?"

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You are not saved by a church--that is a mormon belief. As I said before there are many Catholics who are Christian and will be saved. Now can you tell me why you asked "Oh, are Catholics considered non-Christian?"

So, to you, someone can believe in "false beliefs" and be saved---or are they really Catholic if they "reject many of their tenants"? Can someone be Catholic and reject the teachings of their church?

I don't think any Mormon would ***ert that they are saved by their church, but rather by believing what Christ taught, which is embodied in His church--which is why Mormons church is called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

So, I find it fascinating that you believe you can belong to a church and either reject its tenants or not reject its tenants and be saved. Seems pretty wishy-washy to me.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you, someone can believe in "false beliefs" and be saved---or are they really Catholic if they "reject many of their tenants"? Can someone be Catholic and reject the teachings of their church?

They sure can just like a you can be "mormon" and "reject many of their tenants"

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I don't think any Mormon would ***ert that they are saved by their church, but rather by believing what Christ taught, which is embodied in His church--which is why Mormons church is called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Are you saying they dropped the "only true church on the face of the earth" mantra with the true "priesthood authority"?

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, I find it fascinating that you believe you can belong to a church and either reject its tenants or not reject its tenants and be saved. Seems pretty wishy-washy to me.

As I said before salvation is based on placing your faith in the true Christ of the Bible. The problem with mormonism is that their gods are false gods that are not in line with what the Bible teaches.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I don't think any Mormon would ***ert that they are saved by their church, but rather by believing what Christ taught, which is embodied in His church--which is why Mormons church is called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

But you don't believe what the Bible teaches nor do you believe what Christ has taught. That is why Christians don't consider lds as Christians.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

They sure can just like a you can be "mormon" and "reject many of their tenants"

So, to you then, someone can be "Mormon" and be saved if they reject the tenants. So, to you--the words "Catholic" or "Mormon" don't really mean that a person espouses to a set of beliefs, but rather is just...what exactly?

Are you saying they dropped the "only true church on the face of the earth" mantra with the true "priesthood authority"?

We believe it is the only true church as it is the only church that has Christ's power here on earth, which is the priesthood. That does not mean that only Mormons will be saved, because you and I both know that Mormons believe that we are held accountable for what God teaches us. As such, Mormons don't go around noting who will go to hell and who won't the way some "christians" do.

As I said before salvation is based on placing your faith in the true Christ of the Bible. The problem with mormonism is that their gods are false gods that are not in line with what the Bible teaches.

Okay, so how can a Catholic be "Christian" according to you, if they have false tenants and do not believe as you do regarding the Bible? In fact, this discussion got started because it was noted that the Catholic Bible is not the same Bible and that the Council of Trent was not considered legit to Christians.

Is the way you see a Catholic or Mormon saved as being a Catholic or Mormon in name only and not really believing what their church teaches?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you don't believe what the Bible teaches nor do you believe what Christ has taught. That is why Christians don't consider lds as Christians.

Actually, we have had long discussions that I do believe that the Bible is consistent with what I believe.

But now you have me really curious. You just said that you don't consider LDS as Christians---but you acknowledge Catholics can be Christian but have a false set of beliefs. Do they have to give up their tenants to be considered Christian? This is a simple yes or no here really.

In fact, you said

Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post

They sure can just like a you can be "mormon" and "reject many of their tenants"

So, couldn't someone also be "Mormon" and be Christian likewise?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

But you don't believe what the Bible teaches nor do you believe what Christ has taught. That is why Christians don't consider lds as Christians.

Okay, so let me get this straight. Sometimes you refer to "Lds" as an individual...that someone who is "Mormon" can give up their beliefs, just like someone who is Catholic--but then you lump Mormons together by saying

But you don't believe what the Bible teaches nor do you believe what Christ has taught. That is why Christians don't consider lds as Christians.

Which is it? You start by making it personal about my beliefs, then you generalize that to all Mormons. But you don't do the same to Catholics, it appears. Which is it?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you then, someone can be "Mormon" and be saved if they reject the tenants.

I think that this is rare but certainly possibility. Grant Palmer comes to mind.

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, to you--the words "Catholic" or "Mormon" don't really mean that a person espouses to a set of beliefs, but rather is just...what exactly?

BigJ this may be news to you but their are a lot of people who attend a certain church but don't necessarily hold to all of their doctrine. I have a Catholic friend who attends a Catholic church but does not believe all that they teach. As I said earlier Grant Palmer doesn't believe what mormonism teaches.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

BigJ this may be news to you but their are a lot of people who attend a certain church but don't necessarily hold to all of their doctrine. I have a Catholic friend who attends a Catholic church but does not believe all that they teach. As I said earlier Grant Palmer doesn't believe what mormonism teaches.

So, basically---being "Mormon" or "Catholic" doesn't really mean anything--what is important is what someone believes. And what beliefs are those exactly, as they are not tied to a "church" to you (as you believe someone can belong to a church and not believe the doctrines taught in that church.)

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, so how can a Catholic be "Christian" according to you, if they have false tenants and do not believe as you do regarding the Bible?

The Catholic church may teach false tenets but the person may reject those tenets. You keep thinking organization but as I said before an organization doesn't save you. You have been brain washed into thinking this way.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

So, basically---being "Mormon" or "Catholic" doesn't really mean anything--what is important is what someone believes.

Why do you continually believe that an organization saves you? It doesn't. The main problem is that if you go to an organization such as the mormon church you will be much less likely to be saved because you are taught false doctrine but it is possible to find the Biblical Jesus while mormon. I was mormon when I found the true God and many other ex lds have the same experience--but most leave and find a Bible based church. However there may be some who stay due to family reason etc. but don't hold to the lds teachings.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Okay, so let me get this straight. Sometimes you refer to "Lds" as an individual...that someone who is "Mormon" can give up their beliefs, just like someone who is Catholic--but then you lump Mormons together by saying

Which is it? You start by making it personal about my beliefs, then you generalize that to all Mormons. But you don't do the same to Catholics, it appears. Which is it?

You for sure don't believe the Bible nor Jesus because I have discussed these issues with you at length so I know where you stand. And when I say mormon I am referring to the official lds teaching and those who are in line with those teachings--such as yourself. This isn't that hard to understand BigJ--what part are you having a hard time understanding thus far?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Other than your consistency in criticizing the LDS faith, your beliefs seem to move all over the place.

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.

I love it when you and others who are my critics say these kind of things.. Look at the doctrines I showed as being what the LDS believe

1. That the LDS can't believe that salvation is by God's through Faith plus nothing. It is strange that I used LDS.org to find this evidence. If the LDS church says this is what they believe who am I to argue.

Joseph Smith perverted the KJV of the Bible in Roman 4:16 to allow that both Grace and Works.. The KJV says:

KJV Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace...

Then in Smith's perversion of the translation He adds works

JSP Romans 4:16
Therefore ye are justified of faith and works...

What did the Holy Spirit teach us as the relationship of Grace and Works for salvation?

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (The JSP didn't change this p***age at all)

Since the REAL Bible teaches that salvation is either by Grace or through good Works the teaching of Smith found in his perversion of the Bible is flat UNBIBLICAL. Ok That takes care of my first objection I listed here.. Seems I was Biblical and truthful in every way in what I said..

2. In mormonism, church membership is an important step in salvation.. It is taught that there is no salvation outside the LDS church (Elder Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, p.670).

Since I referenced an apostles of the LDS church in this statement how can it be anything but a doctrine of the Church.. I have never heard the president of the LDS teach that this statement is in error.. In fact statement three supports this teaching..

3.No one can enter God's highest heaven unless they Join the LDS church. It is taught that "We Must Be Baptized to Enter the Celestial Kingdom" (Gospel Principles Chapter 20: Baptism). This is again recovered from the Church's official home page.. Does the LDS place data on that site that lies about the beliefs of the church?

It is up to you now to look up these references and show where I have misused them. Show where works is not taught to be as important for salvation as Grace.. Show that the LDS church believes that there is salvation for non LDS other than mere resurrection in LDS teachings.. Then show where the LDS teaches that baptism is not required for salvation into God's presence.. If you can't then show me how my statement are like those of a foolish man.. Sounds to me that only a FOOLISH man that would change the Scripture to teach what he wants instead of allowing it to remain as the Holy Spirit gave it and believe that salvation is by faith outside the works of the Law.. Again you make accusations without merit.. IHS jim

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Is the way you see a Catholic or Mormon saved as being a Catholic or Mormon in name only and not really believing what their church teaches?

I think that majority of mormons hold to the official lds doctrine--but not all do. Again this may be news to you. However those who find the true Christ usually leave and find a Bible based church--some don't and attend lds service and retain lds membership but don't buy the lds false teachings.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Billyray

I think that majority of mormons hold to the official lds doctrine--but not all do. Again this may be news to you. However those who find the true Christ usually leave and find a Bible based church--some don't and attend lds service and retain lds membership but don't buy the lds false teachings.

So, to you, someone who is "Christian" is someone who goes to one church and believes something else? Is that how it is for all Christians---they go to a church, but they only hold on to what is right? (by your definition, at least.)

If that is the case, then wouldn't it be true that you would not be able to judge anyone by the church they attend?