Mormonism is claiming they have set aside their Bigotry

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

James, remember where Paul teaches us that without charity, it doesn't matter how much you "speak with the tongues of angels."

I don't think you realizy how much you or Bilyray have impressed me with how uncharitable you are. As I said, if heaven was filled with people like you, I would prefer not to be there.

Julie, what you don't seem to understand about heaven is that we will NOT be like we are here. No longer feeling pain nor sorrow. We will no longer think as we do here i.e. bad thoughts, sad thoughts; all those things will be gone. God has promised that He would wipe away every tear. There can be no anger, fear or loneliness, want nor evil thoughts, remember this is heaven.

Don't worry that you may have to be in heaven with James. Our past Stake President told both of us that we'd be sent to the telestial kingdom, the place where King David was sent. WOW! we said, we will be with King David, whom God called a man after His own heart? I am sorry that you feel James is divisive and a hypocrite when he is doing what Christ commanded.....to go out and preach the gospel to every creature. Seems to me that you are being like the Pharisees and Elders of Christ's day, blaming Christ for all the problems and causing THEM to feel uncomfortable because His words made them feel guilty. Even your own prophet said that Satan can appear as an angel of light, fooling many. How do you know your experiences were from God and not Satan? Anyone can get a good feeling about anything if they want it bad enough.

I have shared with you a couple of times that even when I was a young child I felt different growing up in the LDS Church. All I can explain to you is that the Lord had His plan for me but I was to young to recognize it. It took me many years before I came to the conclusion that Mormonism was wrong. Sad that it was the temple that opened my eyes and brought me to where I am today because sitting there going through all the vile ceremony, the Holy Spirit spoke to me to get up, leave, you don't belong here! If the LDS temple is the most sacred place where certainly no evil spirit could enter, then what did I hear and why did I feel something pushing on me to stand up? That experience has stayed with me all this time but I know it was the Lord's way of getting me to realize the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts but it's necessary. Just as a surgeon's scalpel hurts but is necessary to get inside the body to repair or remove something that is broken, cancerous or infected. Afterward, that person can heal and become whole again. That is James' and my wish for you, to be whole and show you the way to the narrow road which will lead you to eternal life.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

Julie, what you don't seem to understand about heaven is that we will NOT be like we are here. No longer feeling pain nor sorrow.

I have a hard time believing that Heavenly Father has not wept for his children at times--regardless of being in heaven. Could he watch the pain and suffering that we experience and feel nothing?

Seems to me that you are being like the Pharisees and Elders of Christ's day, blaming Christ for all the problems and causing THEM to feel uncomfortable because His words made them feel guilty.

Trust me, I don't feel uncomfortable by James words. I feel more frustration because James seems to be oblivious to his own hypocrisy.

Even your own prophet said that Satan can appear as an angel of light, fooling many. How do you know your experiences were from God and not Satan? Anyone can get a good feeling about anything if they want it bad enough.

Yes, he did fool many, but he didn't fool them by their feelings, but rather by using their intellect.

Sometimes the truth hurts but it's necessary. Just as a surgeon's scalpel hurts but is necessary to get inside the body to repair or remove something that is broken, cancerous or infected. Afterward, that person can heal and become whole again. That is James' and my wish for you, to be whole and show you the way to the narrow road which will lead you to eternal life.

Trust me, your "truth" is not hurting me. If anything, it makes me feel bad for you. (Especially when I know that had James stayed faithful to the church, he would have also stayed faithful to you.)

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I am not expecting a pat on the head. What I do see is that I do know my Savior, I am guided by the Holy Ghost. What I experience here is not correction or reproof, but merely division and hypocrisy.

This isn't the first time you have seen this correction but here is it again..

Jesus is NOT a spiritual creation of anyone including the Father.. Jesus is God and has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting.. Nothing and no one will become a God like Him, not the way that He was trillions and trillions of years ago and not the God He is now.. There is no shadow of change in Him.. here is one more for you to think about.. I agree with what is taught in 1 Nephi 3:7 "I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." I dismiss the revelation of D&C 124 were the mormon god excuses the church from keeping a commandment to build the temple in Far West because of the persecution of the mods and the Missouri state Militia. The mormon god couldn't prepare a way to accomplish what he had commanded! Is that a truth revelation from God based on 1 Nephi 3:7? I don't believe that even you can justify that Julie.. It would be one thing if God was correcting Smith's decision to make Far West the headquarters of the church. It is completely different to change His commandments because HE COULDN'T OVERCOME THE STATE MILITA OF 1841 Missouri! How weak a god is the mormon god.. Or was this just what I think it is a false prophecy? This is a problem that exists in your standard works Julie.. It points to the fact that mormonism is not of God, but instead is just the invention of a man's evil mind..

So you get no pat on the head. What you get is the challenge that Smith was never a prophet. That what he called scripture especially section 84 and 124 of the D&C are nothing more than Smith own will that he placed in the mouth of his god.. And you believe what he taught is truly from God? That is kind of thing we tell you here Julie.. And after showing that mormonism is a lie we point toward the cross.. We teach Jesus, the eternal God.. We point out by the scripture that he purchased salvation for us and offers it to us by His grace to those that hold faith in Him.. That He gives us His righteousness and takes our sin onto Himself.. We tell you the truth of God as reported in His word the Bible.. But you seem to want to follow a proven false prophet that put words in God's mouth to change what he had commanded. can't you see that such a doctrine flies in the face of what is taught about Him even in the BofM?

Julie God told us that we can know if a prophet speaks for God or if His words are his own. It's in Deut 18.. I'll help you..

Deut 18:20-22
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to p***, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

That speaks directly of Joseph Smith.. It is ever believers duty before God to reject such a prophet.. Are you willing to do so? If not my accusation of you not being of God, not His child, Not a believer in Jesus are all correct.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

This isn't the first time you have seen this correction but here is it again..

Jesus is NOT a spiritual creation of anyone including the Father.. Jesus is God and has been God from everlasting and will continue to be God to everlasting..

James, if you know about Mormonism, then you should also know our scriptures that teaches you that Jesus' "intelligence" or nature has always existed---not created by God the Father and is from everlasting to everlasting.

Nothing and no one will become a God like Him, not the way that He was trillions and trillions of years ago and not the God He is now..

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And here, all along, I thought the whole point of the coming of Christ and his atonement was so that we could be one with him, follow him, be perfected by him, so that we could have a glorified resurrected body as he does and dwell with Him.

1 Nephi 3:7 "I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them."

Yes, Christ is the refiners fire and the fuller's soap. Follow Him and he will cleanse us so that we can be perfect even as He is perfect.

Julie God told us that we can know if a prophet speaks for God or if His words are his own.

Yes, and because I can pray and receive answers by the Holy Ghost, I can pray and ask God if those who speak in his behalf are speaking His words. When I get an answer, I act on that answer and I see the increased light and knowledge that this brings along with an increased measure of happiness.

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;157273]James, if you know about Mormonism, then you should also know our scriptures that teaches you that Jesus' "intelligence" or nature has always existed---not created by God the Father and is from everlasting to everlasting.

Can you tell me that mormonism teaches that since they believe that all people are co-eternal with God being that that he eternally existed as "intelligence" is the same thing as being GOD from everlasting to everlasting.. Was he God as he existed as pure intelligence.. No? NO!! Even mormonism believes he became a God much later than that.. Therefore it is the truth to teach that mormonism denies that Jesus has been God from everlasting to everlasting..

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And here, all along, I thought the whole point of the coming of Christ and his atonement was so that we could be one with him, follow him, be perfected by him, so that we could have a glorified resurrected body as he does and dwell with Him.

No where in all that does it say that we will become GODS.. It says we will be like Him in appearance because we will see Him as He is.. We will stand in His righteousness and in His glory but because the Bible teaches us that he is God and after Him will no God be formed, we will NOT BE GODS.. Again you deny the Bible through your misinterpretations of Bible.. It ALL has to be true or none of it is.. The doctrines I have stated here allow for that, yours do not!

Yes, Christ is the refiners fire and the fuller's soap. Follow Him and he will cleanse us so that we can be perfect even as He is perfect.

If you are a follower of a Jesus that hasn't always been God, a God that can't make it possible to fulfill all His commandments, then you believe in another Jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible.. heck, you don't even believe in the Jesus of the BofM..

Yes, and because I can pray and receive answers by the Holy Ghost, I can pray and ask God if those who speak in his behalf are speaking His words. When I get an answer, I act on that answer and I see the increased light and knowledge that this brings along with an increased measure of happiness.

But as I have stated in section 84 and 124 where it is clear that a commandment came through Smith that was clearly in error and then corrected by Smith's God it is clear that the God od 1 Nephi is not the same God as the god of D&C 84 and 124.. You can ask such a god that gave those revelations to Smith day and night and the only answer that will come to you will be an answer you desire, the answer from your own heart.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

Can you tell me that mormonism teaches that since they believe that all people are co-eternal with God being that that he eternally existed as "intelligence" is the same thing as being GOD from everlasting to everlasting.. Was he God as he existed as pure intelligence.. No? NO!! Even mormonism believes he became a God much later than that.. Therefore it is the truth to teach that mormonism denies that Jesus has been God from everlasting to everlasting..

Yes, yes. We are imperfect. Our natures are imperfect. He is perfect--always will be, always has been.

No where in all that does it say that we will become GODS.. It says we will be like Him in appearance because we will see Him as He is.. We will stand in His righteousness and in His glory but because the Bible teaches us that he is God and after Him will no God be formed, we will NOT BE GODS.. Again you deny the Bible through your misinterpretations of Bible.. It ALL has to be true or none of it is.. The doctrines I have stated here allow for that, yours do not!

Like him in appearance, perfected as he is perfect.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

You, yourself, acknowledge that God calls rulers and calls them "gods".

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I have a hard time believing that Heavenly Father has not wept for his children at times--regardless of being in heaven. Could he watch the pain and suffering that we experience and feel nothing?

Trust me, I don't feel uncomfortable by James words. I feel more frustration because James seems to be oblivious to his own hypocrisy.

Yes, he did fool many, but he didn't fool them by their feelings, but rather by using their intellect.


Trust me, your "truth" is not hurting me. If anything, it makes me feel bad for you. (Especially when I know that had James stayed faithful to the church, he would have also stayed faithful to you.)

Oh PLEASE!!! Did I say that God doesn't feel sorrow? I was talking about us, (human beings). Who knows what God feels, do you? Nit picking I see. And I take offense by you bringing up a sin in my husband!! So as a Mormon, you don't believe that when someone does commit a sin and repents, that they can never be forgiven? Give me a BREAK!! At this point I am so upset that I best leave before I say something I may regret!!! JUST KNOW THIS, IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT I LOOK AT AND THANK BECAUSE I WOULD NEVER HAVE QUESTIONED MORMONISM AND WOULD STILL BE A WALKING DEAD PERSON HEADED FOR HELL! Thanks Julie for being such a wonderful example of your church, your Bishop, Stake President and self proclaimed Prophet would be proud and patting you on the head. PUKE....PUKE!!

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Those leaders, such as Abraham, were foreordained.

I was "foreordained" to leadership in my Patriarchal blessing. So am I a god?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

When I was called to go on a mission was I a god?

Originally Posted by BigJulie

No. Billyray, I know you think you are---but, no.

Those leaders, such as Abraham, were foreordained. I personally wouldn't qualify you as such; you seem to do better at tearing down than building up.

So some people are gods and others are not? Which humans are gods?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by Billyray

You believe that children of god are gods and I am a literal spirit child of god and his wife. So why am I not a god?

Originally Posted by BigJulie

In this context, we were talking of those who are called to be leaders. You are not.

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Do you believe they were appointed by God?

Originally Posted by Billyray

ESV Study Bible

". . .82:1–4 The Task of the “Gods.” The first section gives the *** description of human rulers (the gods), especially those who rule God's covenant people:they are to give justice to the weak and the fatherless, and rescue the weak and the needy*. *. *. from the hand of the wicked (vv. 3–4). Far too often, however, they judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked (i. e., people who take the lead in opposing God's purpose and oppressing others). The words of the psalm do not specify whether the rulers are Israelites, or Gentiles ruling Israel as a subject state (as in the Babylonian or Persian Empires). Both the ideal Davidic king in Psalm 72 and the ideal Gentile ruler in Prov. 31:1–9 are called to protect the powerless from those who would oppress them. Certainly the people of God should aim to embody this most clearly. . ."

As noted above from the ESV Study Bible we don't know if these unrighteous rulers were Israelites or Gentiles. Do you believe that if these guys were Gentile rulers that they are gods?

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;157278]Yes, yes. We are imperfect. Our natures are imperfect. He is perfect--always will be, always has been.

So now do you deny that God was always God or do you deny the LDS belief that "As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be" (The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.). This was a remark from a Prophet, a man who was as much a prophet as Joseph Smith was. He taught that God was a man like we are, and that we being men can become a God.. Of course that agrees with the teachings of Joseph Smith.

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of
those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should
understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I
am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed
that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away
the veil, so that you may see.

These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is
the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of
God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with
another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the
Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did;
and I will show it from the Bible.

Eternal Life to Know God and Jesus Christ

I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump
of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that
persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder
Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath
power in himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the
Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and
take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as
my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not
believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy
all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell
together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise
and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to
be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you,
namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small
capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to
exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able
to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit
enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the
last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not
trifling with you or me. (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).

Like him in appearance, perfected as he is perfect.

In that statement we have no argument.. We would if you said we share His divinity..

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This is a great quote.. A quote that proves that there are only 12 Apostles that is anyone today takes that position they are a fraud..

You, yourself, acknowledge that God calls rulers and calls them "gods".

If you include the rest of that p***age you will see that it says "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

And I take offense by you bringing up a sin in my husband!!

And I know you would. It gives me the chance to show you what you are doing. I now have the opportunity to tell you that if the truth hurts it is because ...what were your exact words...

Seems to me that you are being like the Pharisees and Elders of Christ's day, blaming Christ for all the problems and causing THEM to feel uncomfortable because His words made them feel guilty.

Yet, I am sure you do not feel guilty about this, nor do I feel guilty when you go on the attack.

Let's see...what are your words here when you feel personally attacked:

JUST KNOW THIS, IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT I LOOK AT AND THANK BECAUSE I WOULD NEVER HAVE QUESTIONED MORMONISM AND WOULD STILL BE A WALKING DEAD PERSON HEADED FOR HELL! Thanks Julie for being such a wonderful example of your church, your Bishop, Stake President and self proclaimed Prophet would be proud and patting you on the head.

But lets look back to some of the comments I and others have received when disagreed wtih:

heck, you don't even believe in the Jesus of the BofM..

I guess you hate Jesus because He called sinners sons of the devil.

love ole Pres. Clinton......NOT!! Kinda like Mormons saying, depends on what your definition of faith without works is.

Again I say that you fail to even read most of what he posts or that you have some kind of brain dysfunction that keeps you from comprehending the written word; which is it?

Your logic is flawed so bad, it's not funny.

I guess I can only ***ume (based on your belief system) that the truth is hard for you to hear and that is why you act out and attack those who speak truth.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

This is a great quote.. A quote that proves that there are only 12 Apostles that is anyone today takes that position they are a fraud..



If you include the rest of that p***age you will see that it says "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

IHS jim

Once again James---you fail to look at what we teach in context. You look at the tusk and think you see the elephant and them bear false witness because you do not comprehend the bigger picture.

So, yes--God is God of gods...I have already said that. I am glad now you at least admit to 12 who will be "rulers' or "gods" in the next life.

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;157293]And I know you would. It gives me the chance to show you what you are doing. I now have the opportunity to tell you that if the truth hurts it is because ...what were your exact words...

What did God tell Peter when he said that he would eat the animals on the sheet that God lowered from heaven.. In case you don't remember God said "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." That is what you are doing to me AGAIN.. That really bugs you doesn't.. You should keep that in mind as you judge me again.. Seems you have no believe in repentance. Once a person sins they are a sinner before you eternally.. I am sure glad you aren't God.. No one could be saved with your mindset.. But God is as merciful as He is just. I can count on Him, I sure can't count on you keeping your word..

Yet, I am sure you do not feel guilty about this, nor do I feel guilty when you go on the attack.

Sounds to me as though you have seared your conscience until it won't show you any of your sins.

But lets look back to some of the comments I and others have received when disagreed wtih:

Sounds to me as if they right and you are in denial..

I guess I can only ***ume (based on your belief system) that the truth is hard for you to hear and that is why you act out and attack those who speak truth.

If truth means denying the Bible and accepting what a man taught then I deny it 100%... IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

What did God tell Peter when he said that he would eat the animals on the sheet that God lowered from heaven.. In case you don't remember God said "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." That is what you are doing to me AGAIN.. That really bugs you doesn't.. You should keep that in mind as you judge me again.. Seems you have no believe in repentance. Once a person sins they are a sinner before you eternally.. I am sure glad you aren't God.. No one could be saved with your mindset.. But God is as merciful as He is just. I can count on Him, I sure can't count on you keeping your word..

Actually, as your wife's behavior was completely predictable, I was letting her see what she is doing. (Basically, attack and then blame the victim.)

Sounds to me as though you have seared your conscience until it won't show you any of your sins.

What?

Sounds to me as if they right and you are in denial..

And just that quickly, the attacks begin again.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

And I know you would. It gives me the chance to show you what you are doing. I now have the opportunity to tell you that if the truth hurts it is because ...what were your exact words...



Yet, I am sure you do not feel guilty about this, nor do I feel guilty when you go on the attack.

Let's see...what are your words here when you feel personally attacked:



But lets look back to some of the comments I and others have received when disagreed wtih:











I guess I can only ***ume (based on your belief system) that the truth is hard for you to hear and that is why you act out and attack those who speak truth.

WHAT TRUTH JULIE!! Maybe if you spoke any that would make a difference but since I know better then nope, you speak with forked tongue as do ALL LDS. Hey, keep bringing up my husband's past, for it continues to show everyone on this board and any lurker how unforgiving LDS are and how hateful they can be to those who have left their faith. So the hate for Christians continues. Want to feed me to the lions now, sure why not. We are told that we will face tribulation but not to fear for Christ overcame the world. There is really nothing you can or could say that would ever force me to deny my Savior. I am only sorry that your eyes are so clouded over that you will never see the truth even if God himself appeared to you. God knows who will listen and who won't. Guess God didn't choose you.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by neverending

WHAT TRUTH JULIE!! Maybe if you spoke any that would be make a difference but since I know better then nope, you speak with forked tongue as do ALL LDS. Hey, keep bringing up my husband's past, for it continues to show everyone on this board and any lurker how unforgiving LDS are and how hateful they can be to those who have left their faith. So the hate for Christians continues. Want to feed me to the lions now, sure why not. We are told that we will face tribulation but not to fear for Christ overcame the world. There is really nothing you can or could say that would ever force me to deny my Savior. I am only sorry that your eyes are so clouded over that you will never see the truth even if God himself appeared to you. God knows who will listen and who won't. Guess God didn't choose you.

I decided to take to a private message.

[James Banta]

[BigJulie;157302]Actually, as your wife's behavior was completely predictable, I was letting her see what she is doing. (Basically, attack and then blame the victim.)

I wasn't thinking of my wife's behavior I was thinking of yours..

What?

You didn't hear me or you didn't understand.. Julie, all have sinned, that includes you. It doesn't matter what you have done.. I know you don't believe all of James Chapter 2 just rememeber as you through verse 10 oit that NO ONE is allow to have their own private interpretation of the scripture. You either accept it as it is or deny it all.. So when James teaches that "we we keep the whole Law abd offend in just one point we are GUILTY of it all".. That means that you are guilty of the whole Law. Murder, adultery, stealing all because you are a sinner before God just like the rest of us.. You conscience seems recoil from that until it has stopped showing you where you are in sin.. That is WHAT..

And just that quickly, the attacks begin again.

The truth is not an attack. You are no different than anyone else, including jim.. I often don't see the sin that lives in me, even though it shows it's self all to often. That is why I talk it to Jesus daily and ask Him to take it from me. I at least and willing to admit that sin still lives in me.. So in saying that ALL HAVE SINNED and include you and myself in that "ALL" you have chosen to see God's statement of truth as a personal attack.. If you don't turn away from your sin and give it all to Jesus you will have a problem explaining your lack of repentance before God at the Great White Throne.. Julie you are a fine woman. Losing such a person as you are to the Lake of Fire would be a terrible lose. Please allow Jesus to take all your sin and give you His righteousness in it's place.. It doesn't matter if your stay in the LDS church.. What matters is that you believe God and His word is available to you.. Stop trying to cram the smooth round truth of His word into the square hole that is mormonism.. Just believe what He has preserved for you that you can know who He is and what He has done to save you.. IHS jim