Mormonism is claiming they have set aside their Bigotry

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Such as Peter mistaking what Christ meant when he said "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

(Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.)

So, to you, if an apostle or a prophet doesn't understand what God teaches immediately or misunderstands, he is a false prophet. I don't agree. As we can see from the scriptures otherwise.

I don't know what dat got to do with them red skins, but hey if it works for you.lol

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If you read the NT, the Pharisees believed they were "testing" Christ against the Bible they understood. Because they lacked the real meaning of the teachings and thought they understood the teachings, Christ failed their test and was crucified for it.

The first part of your post you need to take up with Alan.. I don't really follow your conversation..

I have no problem seeing that most of the Pharisees didn't see Jesus as being God in human flesh. There were at least two that did believe.. Not all people even religious people believe in Jesus.. But even among the LDS there are some.. The Pharisees tested Jesus many times.. They tried to stone Him more than once. It wasn't until Jesus chased the vendors out of the temple that the High Priest really got worried.. After that they made a point of seeing Him killed.. They NEVER accomplished their goal. NO ONE TOOK THE LIFE OF THE LORD.. He laid it down! The men that tried to take His life didn't bother to read and understand p***ages like Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53. Both which prophecy of the Lord and His suffering for our sin.. Both which they had perfect availability.

It s hard to understand how a woman who believes she is so learned in the scripture would say "Christ failed their test and was crucified for it". Jesus confounded their "tests", all of them. They worked for His death out of greed and fear.. He laid down His life out of love for all of us that while we were dead in our sins, He died for us. We can only become the righteousness of God in Him if He becomes sin for us.. And the Word of God clearly states that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:22).. Jesus drew the wages for our sin.. Even mine, especially mine.. IHS jim

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by James Banta

It s hard to understand how a woman who believes she is so learned in the scripture would say "Christ failed their test and was crucified for it". Jesus confounded their "tests", all of them.

I would agree that he confounded them--but to them He failed their tests. I was looking at the perspective of the testers. And I would agree it was fear and greed that was the base reasons, but I am sure that they did not see it that way. As Christ noted, they were blind.

That is why I don't think Alan's "test" p***es as the way to determine truth.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I would agree that he confounded them--but to them He failed their tests. I was looking at the perspective of the testers. And I would agree it was fear and greed that was the base reasons, but I am sure that they did not see it that way. As Christ noted, they were blind.

That is why I don't think Alan's "test" p***es as the way to determine truth.

People can be very blind to meaning and signs in scripture, if they are not attuned to the Spirit. (Is that what you mean?)

Orthodox Christians put a lot of emphasis on reading scripture, but without Holy Spirit guidance, it's possible to come up with some very bizarre interpretations.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Libby

People can be very blind to meaning and signs in scripture, if they are not attuned to the Spirit. (Is that what you mean?)

Orthodox Christians put a lot of emphasis on reading scripture, but without Holy Spirit guidance, it's possible to come up with some very bizarre interpretations.

Yes, this is why I mean---not being attuned to the Spirit. If you are attuned, you see the truth there.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, this is why I mean---not being attuned to the Spirit. If you are attuned, you see the truth there.

Hick, BigJulie, that is what we have been trying to tell you! However right now you are attuned to the spirit of Joseph Smith jr. spirits, and that's the problem.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Yes, this is why I mean---not being attuned to the Spirit. If you are attuned, you see the truth there.

Julie,
I'd sure like an answer to this question. When I was investigating Mormonism, the faith I was born and raised in; as I was reading scriptures daily and so many times things I had once read now were showing me a totally new meaning, why? If you say that someone must be attuned to the Spirit, then how can you claim one thing and I can claim another?

I can honestly tell you that once I left Mormonism, reading scriptures became such an eye opener for me. It was like I was reading these things for the very first time. The Spirit was showing me the truth, I knew it and know it! I've read the BoM but Julie, there is nothing in it that influenced me. To be honest, reading it was very difficult and many things made no sense. How can someone who has had their head cut off, get up on their knees and gasp for breath? As a nurse, when someone dies so suddenly and in such a traumatic way, their body ****s...it is the nerves that are not receiving the proper signals from the brain. It isn't possible for a dead body to get up on it's knees; unless were talking about "The Walking Dead" as in the TV series. It is beyond me how anyone reading the BoM would feel anything spiritual nor have that book influence them unless they are lying to themselves and others.

We have God's word, written in the pages of the Bible and I will take what is written there as truth and being taught by the Spirit with reading Christ's words. That is far more important then some book written by a man we all know lived one heck of a sinful life. Anyone who lived during JS's day and was familiar with him, would not be influenced by his example as he never set one, the bar was very low. All I can say is I have a lot of sympathy for Emma and all those who have been fooled by such a man.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by neverending

Julie,
I'd sure like an answer to this question. When I was investigating Mormonism, the faith I was born and raised in; as I was reading scriptures daily and so many times things I had once read now were showing me a totally new meaning, why? If you say that someone must be attuned to the Spirit, then how can you claim one thing and I can claim another?

I can honestly tell you that once I left Mormonism, reading scriptures became such an eye opener for me. It was like I was reading these things for the very first time. The Spirit was showing me the truth, I knew it and know it! I've read the BoM but Julie, there is nothing in it that influenced me. To be honest, reading it was very difficult and many things made no sense. How can someone who has had their head cut off, get up on their knees and gasp for breath? As a nurse, when someone dies so suddenly and in such a traumatic way, their body ****s...it is the nerves that are not receiving the proper signals from the brain. It isn't possible for a dead body to get up on it's knees; unless were talking about "The Walking Dead" as in the TV series. It is beyond me how anyone reading the BoM would feel anything spiritual nor have that book influence them unless they are lying to themselves and others.

We have God's word, written in the pages of the Bible and I will take what is written there as truth and being taught by the Spirit with reading Christ's words. That is far more important then some book written by a man we all know lived one heck of a sinful life. Anyone who lived during JS's day and was familiar with him, would not be influenced by his example as he never set one, the bar was very low. All I can say is I have a lot of sympathy for Emma and all those who have been fooled by such a man.

Just for the record, when you left LDSinc. Did the moment you gave in the Christ of the Holy Bible did you have a feeling of a great burden was lift off your shoulders?

[BigJulie]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by neverending

Julie,
I'd sure like an answer to this question. When I was investigating Mormonism, the faith I was born and raised in; as I was reading scriptures daily and so many times things I had once read now were showing me a totally new meaning, why? If you say that someone must be attuned to the Spirit, then how can you claim one thing and I can claim another?

There are three possibilities.

1) One of us is and one of us isn't. In this case, I can only go by whether or not I am attuned to the spirit and not judge you, but not underestimate my own ability to recognize and follow the spirit.
2) Both of us are in tune with the spirit, but both in different aspects of learning. In this case, once again, I can only go by whether or not I am in tuned with the spirit and not judge you, but not underestimate my own ability to recognize and follow the spirit.
3) Neither of us are a tune and neither one of us recognize it.

I can honestly tell you that once I left Mormonism, reading scriptures became such an eye opener for me. It was like I was reading these things for the very first time. The Spirit was showing me the truth, I knew it and know it!

That's great--you are seeing things you never saw.

I've read the BoM but Julie, there is nothing in it that influenced me.

I've had a different experience

To be honest, reading it was very difficult and many things made no sense. How can someone who has had their head cut off, get up on their knees and gasp for breath?

How can God direct animals onto an ark.

As a nurse, when someone dies so suddenly and in such a traumatic way, their body ****s...it is the nerves that are not receiving the proper signals from the brain.

I've experienced someone dying as well. They did not have this same experience. But you probably never saw someone get their head cut off either.

It isn't possible for a dead body to get up on it's knees; unless were talking about "The Walking Dead" as in the TV series. It is beyond me how anyone reading the BoM would feel anything spiritual nor have that book influence them unless they are lying to themselves and others.

Wow, this is what you struggle with with the book of Mormon? Because you never saw it, you don't think it is possible? Okay.

We have God's word, written in the pages of the Bible and I will take what is written there as truth and being taught by the Spirit with reading Christ's words. That is far more important then some book written by a man we all know lived one heck of a sinful life. Anyone who lived during JS's day and was familiar with him, would not be influenced by his example as he never set one, the bar was very low. All I can say is I have a lot of sympathy for Emma and all those who have been fooled by such a man.

We don't all know that. In fact, I know the opposite. There were many who lived in Joseph Smith's day who were influenced by him. Oh my---how can you look at the LDS church today and think he had no influence in that day or today?

Another interesting thought---how could someone who "set the bar so low" as you believe, could influence so many people to do so much good?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If you read the NT, the Pharisees believed they were "testing" Christ against the Bible they understood.

Where in the NT does it say that the Pharisees were ""testing" Christ against the Bible they understood"?

And what verses in the OT were they using to base their test of Christ?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Billyray

Where in the NT does it say that the Pharisees were ""testing" Christ against the Bible they understood"?

And what verses in the OT were they using to base their test of Christ?

I think the "he who is without sin..." story is a good example where they went after him and tried to trap him,,,

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I think the "he who is without sin..." story is a good example where they went after him and tried to trap him,,,

So if there was a so called test--as BigJ claims--then this would have been a perfect example of how Christ p***ed their test.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Just for the record, when you left LDSinc. Did the moment you gave in the Christ of the Holy Bible did you have a feeling of a great burden was lift off your shoulders?

A resounding YES! But do know that not only a burden lifted but knowing for sure that I was saved, and NOTHING would ever change that. I had God's ***urance that what I read and believed written in His word was true and everything I had ever been taught as a Mormon was so wrong. Read 1 John 5:13. I knew that being a Mormon there was never enough good works that I could do and know for sure that my exaltation was ***ured. No Mormon can ever say they know that for sure. If they do, then they are very self-righteous for God hasn't told them how many good works they must do to have that ***urance. Why wouldn't there be a minimum amount, something so a Mormon would have that ***urance as I do? Unfortunately they don't. As a Christian, my faith, my belief in God and Jesus is what motivates me to want to do good things, like today cutting my neighbors lawn because he has Parkinson's and today was especially difficult for him.

My experience going through the temple was what really did it for me. The Holy Spirit spoke to me there and told me 3 times, that I needed to leave, that I didn't belong there. Mormons claim that their temples are the most spiritual places so was this an evil spirit speaking to me? I know it wasn't and find it interesting that I was told 3 times to leave. We know how God loves that number. Christ being in the tomb for 3 days, the parts of man, mind, body and spirit, 3 wise men, 3 elements, earth, wind and fire. The three persons of God. Peter who denied Christ 3 times. Christ even asked Peter 3 times if Peter loved him, 3 parts to an egg, shell, white and yoke. So one can certainly see that the number 3 has great meaning to God. Hope this helped.

[alanmolstad]

They put Jesus to the test every day.....all the time...

In the end we know they never once found fault with him via the Old Testemant because at his trial they were all over the map with false charges....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

The problem is, if a Pharisee used the test that Alan gave, without the guidance of the Holy Ghost (just what they already know and is congruent with what they already believe), he could not believe in Jesus Christ--which is exactly what happened. Therefore, Alan's test does not work.

If you read the NT, the Pharisees believed they were "testing" Christ against the Bible they understood. Because they lacked the real meaning of the teachings and thought they understood the teachings, Christ failed their test and was crucified for it.

actually Jesus asks people to go to the scriptures so that they see that the scriptures testify to him.
And, they did the correct thing in putting all that Jesus said to the test....
The fact that some did not believe does not mean for a moment that we should not test teachings, rather we see in the bible examples where people did come to understand via testing Jesus that he was who he said he was....

So we cant blame the test by the Scriptures, for the fact that some people are ****s....

That would be like saying its pointless to have traffic laws when so many break them.
You cant blame the law for a few people being ****s.

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If you read the NT, the Pharisees believed they were "testing" Christ against the Bible they understood. Because they lacked the real meaning of the teachings and thought they understood the teachings, Christ failed their test and was crucified for it.

BigJ when you make up an ***ertion you should really think through the ramification of your ***ertion before you post it. But since you did post this may I ask you a follow up question or two? Here is the first question.

What would have happened to Christ--in your opinion--it these guys did understand the scriptures and Christ did p*** there so called test?

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by neverending

A resounding YES! But do know that not only a burden lifted but knowing for sure that I was saved, and NOTHING would ever change that. I had God's ***urance that what I read and believed written in His word was true and everything I had ever been taught as a Mormon was so wrong. Read 1 John 5:13. I knew that being a Mormon there was never enough good works that I could do and know for sure that my exaltation was ***ured. No Mormon can ever say they know that for sure. If they do, then they are very self-righteous for God hasn't told them how many good works they must do to have that ***urance. Why wouldn't there be a minimum amount, something so a Mormon would have that ***urance as I do? Unfortunately they don't. As a Christian, my faith, my belief in God and Jesus is what motivates me to want to do good things, like today cutting my neighbors lawn because he has Parkinson's and today was especially difficult for him.

My experience going through the temple was what really did it for me. The Holy Spirit spoke to me there and told me 3 times, that I needed to leave, that I didn't belong there. Mormons claim that their temples are the most spiritual places so was this an evil spirit speaking to me? I know it wasn't and find it interesting that I was told 3 times to leave. We know how God loves that number. Christ being in the tomb for 3 days, the parts of man, mind, body and spirit, 3 wise men, 3 elements, earth, wind and fire. The three persons of God. Peter who denied Christ 3 times. Christ even asked Peter 3 times if Peter loved him, 3 parts to an egg, shell, white and yoke. So one can certainly see that the number 3 has great meaning to God. Hope this helped.

No matter how well prepared a LDSinc. Testimony is, it can never match that of a Christian when the christian realizes what Grace has done for them. Salvation is a wonderful thing to have and to hold FOREVER !

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

I would agree that he confounded them--but to them He failed their tests. I was looking at the perspective of the testers. And I would agree it was fear and greed that was the base reasons, but I am sure that they did not see it that way. As Christ noted, they were blind.

That is why I don't think Alan's "test" p***es as the way to determine truth.

According to them their self righteousness is what is needed to be acceptable to God.. So what THEY believed is the example of what NOT to be.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

[QUOTE=BigJulie;155847]

No, I am repeating what Alan said--he said:

But that creates a circular argument because Paul's writings are scripture. Or, was Paul speaking prophetically, and if someone is called of God and speaks prophetically, then--yes, of course, that is scripture. But how did Paul test that against scripture as it was scripture?

I told you before that Alan was quoting a p***age of scripture.. Does the Holy Spirit teach in "circular arguments"? No? The when Paul wrote as the Holy Spirit directed saying:

Gal 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

A regenerate person can see that even Paul is forbidden from teaching any other Gospel to the Church that the one that has already been taught.. Alan was right.. I don't understand why you started kicking against that teaching.. Oh I remember you would rather have the gospel of Joseph Smith, another gospel, a gospel of works and personal obedience instead of the Gospel of grace Paul first delivered to the Church.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

People can be very blind to meaning and signs in scripture, if they are not attuned to the Spirit. (Is that what you mean?)

Orthodox Christians put a lot of emphasis on reading scripture, but without Holy Spirit guidance, it's possible to come up with some very bizarre interpretations.

Like those we observed from Julie in attacking Alan.. She attacked him for referring to the scripture that is crystal clear. If anyone preaches another Gospel other than the one that He had first taught in Galatia "let them be accursed".. Paul wasn't looking for peace between error and truth the way you do Libby. He was drawing a clear line of division between error and truth.. Smith taught a gospel that was not the same as what Paul first taught..That is error! Paul clearly taught the message from God. The message that our salvation doesn't come by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (***us 3:5). That is God's truth.. It's time for you to either defend that truth or PLEASE LEAVE.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Love you, James.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

Love you, James.

As I do you.. I just find you to be divisive.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

As I do you.. I just find you to be divisive.. IHS jim

How so?

I left Mormonism for a reason, James, but I haven't been gone from there, as long as you have, and I still remember what it was like to be on the other side of this discussion. Do you know who I listened to the most? Those people who showed me kindness and understanding. Those who showed me the truth of the Bible, without hitting me over the head with it. People who were running around screaming at me and telling me how WRONG I was, and that I was going straight to hell, only repelled me. It was the people who, first, befriended me, people from whom I could feel genuineness and caring, that I began to listen.

I still don't like the "heavy sell", even from Christians with whom I agree. It turns people off...and we are, partially, responsible, when we drive people away from God with our own personal behavior.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

How so?

I left Mormonism for a reason, James, but I haven't been gone from there, as long as you have, and I still remember what it was like to be on the other side of this discussion. Do you know who I listened to the most? Those people who showed me kindness and understanding. Those who showed me the truth of the Bible, without hitting me over the head with it. People who were running around screaming at me and telling me how WRONG I was, and that I was going straight to hell, only repelled me. It was the people who, first, befriended me, people from whom I could feel genuineness and caring, that I began to listen.

I still don't like the "heavy sell", even from Christians with whom I agree. It turns people off...and we are, partially, responsible, when we drive people away from God with our own personal behavior.

The LDS church teaches that the Bible is true only as far as it in translated correctly.. YOU LIBBY while you say you believe in Jesus and have Partaken of His salvation have agreed with them that the Bible is 1. Not wholly of divine inspiration. And 2. Not completely of divine origin.. You have given the cultist ammunition in their ***ault of the Bible as God's inerrant message to man.. That is the main reason that I have asked you to leave here so often..

Tell you what; don't leave.. Instead repent! Tell us all with the same enthusiasm that The Bible is God's word and by the authority of the promises of Jesus it is filled with His messages of life, love, inspiration, and salvation. That the same message He delivered to to the prophets, and Apostles is still available to us in His word and that today we all can have personal revelation of Him, His Godhood, His Lordship, through the message he has preserved for us in the Bible.. IHS jim

[neverending]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

No matter how well prepared a LDSinc. Testimony is, it can never match that of a Christian when the christian realizes what Grace has done for them. Salvation is a wonderful thing to have and to hold FOREVER !

Thank you RFH for your kind comment. As each new day arrives, I give the Lord my thanks, my praise and honor for seeing me and James through the night. Most don't know what a struggle it is for us dealing with all of James' health issues and my own.

May you have a very blessed Sunday today.