Mormonism is claiming they have set aside their Bigotry

[The Pheonix]

To the OP, we have done what matters most, we changed the policy and behavior. Apologies are fine, but what matters most is actions. Usually apologies are to make us feel good, instead of doing what is right. To this day, on this topic, it is MLK Jr, who is the Prophet in all of those words;

"11:00AM on Sunday is still the most segregated hour of the week".

46 years after his death (murder), it is still the case all over the world and sadly in this Nation, founded upon the sacred text of the Cons***ution, that all men are created equal.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

People can be very blind to meaning and signs in scripture, if they are not attuned to the Spirit. (Is that what you mean?)

Orthodox Christians put a lot of emphasis on reading scripture, but without Holy Spirit guidance, it's possible to come up with some very bizarre interpretations.

PANDERING!!! You make it sound like Orthodox Christians are "without (the) Holy Spirit guidance.. You make it sound that only the LDS pray before their personal Bible readings.. That only they are attuned to that spirit.. Fix this or live with your pandering of the LDS.. IHS jim

[Libby]

Originally Posted by James Banta

PANDERING!!! You make it sound like Orthodox Christians are "without (the) Holy Spirit guidance.. You make it sound that only the LDS pray before their personal Bible readings.. That only they are attuned to that spirit.. Fix this or live with your pandering of the LDS.. IHS jim

Not at all. I've said, many times, that it makes no difference what church you are in, you can still have a relationship with The Lord....or not.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

Not at all. I've said, many times, that it makes no difference what church you are in, you can still have a relationship with The Lord....or not.

Look at what Julie says here in the forum.. Other than believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God she sounds VERY Christian, UNTIL she finally confesses that she believes in three Gods. That she believes that she will someday be a Goddess. Then it all comes down falling flat in her anti-biblical teachings.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

Not at all. I've said, many times, that it makes no difference what church you are in, you can still have a relationship with The Lord....or not.

Correct, the building is moot...the name on the sign stuck into the lawn is moot.
The only important matter is the heart of the person.

[The Pheonix]

Originally Posted by Libby

Not at all. I've said, many times, that it makes no difference what church you are in, you can still have a relationship with The Lord....or not.

Here is how I have found this idea gets sticks.

Denominations do not matter, until you disagree in debate, more importantly apologetics. Then the many denominations are no longer one Church.

People can say what they like, but when it comes to a "unity of Faith", we have down, we have made it a science.

[Libby]

Not sure what you mean by that last sentence, Phoenix? Is the "we" a general we, or do you mean the LDS Church?

[Billyray]

Originally Posted by The Pheonix

Here is how I have found this idea gets sticks.

Denominations do not matter, until you disagree in debate, more importantly apologetics. Then the many denominations are no longer one Church.

People can say what they like, but when it comes to a "unity of Faith", we have down, we have made it a science.

You are not saved by a church--you are saved by putting your trust in Christ. BTW even the apostles had theological debates. Read Acts 15.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by The Pheonix

To the OP, we have done what matters most, we changed the policy and behavior. Apologies are fine, but what matters most is actions. Usually apologies are to make us feel good, instead of doing what is right. To this day, on this topic, it is MLK Jr, who is the Prophet in all of those words;

"11:00AM on Sunday is still the most segregated hour of the week".

46 years after his death (murder), it is still the case all over the world and sadly in this Nation, founded upon the sacred text of the Cons***ution, that all men are created equal.

Okay, Pheonix, help me out here, if people wish to ***ociation with whom they wish, what business is it our yours to question them? OH, and let me remind you during Jesus's day, the Sabbath was the most segregated day of the week.
MLK jr. are you kidding me?

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by The Pheonix

Here is how I have found this idea gets sticks.

Denominations do not matter, until you disagree in debate, more importantly apologetics. Then the many denominations are no longer one Church.

People can say what they like, but when it comes to a "unity of Faith", we have down, we have made it a science.

It is clear that Alan and I don't agree on many points of doctrine.. The most clear at this time are the 5 points of Calvinism.. BUT ALAN IS MY BROTHER IN CHRIST, We share the same tenents of faith That there in One God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That salvation is available only by God's grace through faith in Jesus, and NOT OF WORKS. That God is God there never was another and there never will be any other. That God created, called into being, all things visible and invisible, sen or unseen, by the power of His word from NOTHING.. That it is the Lord that adds to His Church. No man is capable of even ***isting God in that work. Alan and I have come to a unity of the Faith no matter how much we disagree on secondary doctrines.. There is UNITY of the faith among all believers..

You and I both say we worship God, but since you and I can't agree on who God is, on the salvation He has provided, who can add others to the Church, or even what creation means, you and I are not in unity. One of us is wrong, one of us teaches another gospel that Paul didn't teach to the Church.. One of us is accursed.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

RFH..
Its the woman at the well.....

That is the example we are to follow...
Not the natural tendency to seek out only people that resemble ourselves......But to seek out the ones we tend to avoid....

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by Libby

Not sure what you mean by that last sentence, Phoenix? Is the "we" a general we, or do you mean the LDS Church?

He means mormonism.. He can't possible mean that the LDS church is at unity with Bible based Christianity. They are just TOO different.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

If you are paddling your boat over the edge of a cliff and to destruction, its doesn't really matter everyone was on the same beat...

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by The Pheonix

To the OP, we have done what matters most, we changed the policy and behavior. Apologies are fine, but what matters most is actions. Usually apologies are to make us feel good, instead of doing what is right. To this day, on this topic, it is MLK Jr, who is the Prophet in all of those words;

"11:00AM on Sunday is still the most segregated hour of the week".

46 years after his death (murder), it is still the case all over the world and sadly in this Nation, founded upon the sacred text of the Cons***ution, that all men are created equal.

There is no higher policy for the Church than the Word of God given to Her.. The Lord taught us all His Gospel. As His children, His Church, we conform our beliefs and actions to His commandments and will as that is recorded for us in the scripture. The LDS have appointed other writings as scripture, other then the Bible. In the Book of Abraham it clearly points out that ...Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry (Abraham 1:27).

The BofM the teaches that a dark skin is a curse a sign of evil. And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. (2 Nephi 5:21)

Explain how these "scriptures" are not racist.. Yes I would have shown how your God had made a mistake and men had to clean up after Him if you had changed these things but a God that taught them in the first place is Not the God of the Church, Not the God of Israel that loved the world so much that He came into it to take our sin and die in our place for them.. The whole of the world not just a few white and delightsome people.. Sorry but right there in LDS "scripture" the racism of Joseph Smith and his invented God are made clear.. IHS jim

Oh, a point of education for you no where in the Cons***ution is it taught that all men are created equal. You may go and find that statement in historic reference. When you do maybe you could correct this error it does nothing to make you sound intelligent..

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

If you are paddling your boat over the edge of a cliff and to destruction, its doesn't really matter everyone was on the same beat...

You can't really believe that if someone is a Calvinist that holding those teaches ****s them, can you? Aren't such believers still your brothers and sisters in the LORD? Such a teaching is unbiblical and you know it.. IHS jim

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

RFH..
Its the woman at the well.....

That is the example we are to follow...
Not the natural tendency to seek out only people that resemble ourselves......But to seek out the ones we tend to avoid....

I haven't stopped by a Well lately, but if I do and find a women there, she might want to avoid me.

[alanmolstad]

Calvinism is a "man-made" idea....That while it may be made up of bad conclusions of a few Christians, they are still conclusions that do not effect one way or the other the salvation of a person.
Calvinism is a crashed idea that makes a person's witness less strong.
But no one ever landed in Hell over the question.

In fact, the open and honest dis-unity seen within the Body of Christ over the question of Calvinism is what many (in the world of the CULTS)wish they had within their own religion.

People in the CULTS must look at the way Christians are so free to openly disagree with even their own church's leadership based on our freedom of thought, that they got to think of their own religion as being in need of the fresh air running though the debates between Christians.

So there is no harm at all in the different voices heard speaking out on Calvinism within the Christian church....


Mormonism is way more serious.
Mormonism is a man-made idea that feeds into the lies of Satan and will cause "****ation".
So the fact that within Mormonism we see a lot of forced-unity it is a moot point.
Unity in teachings that **** are of no merit.

I once debated a JW that I worked with and he tried to attack the Christian churches by pointing out..."All you people in the Christian church cant agree on anything. One church teaches one thing, the next teaches something totally different...Im so glad to be a JW where we all believe the same things"

It was at the moment I pointed out the ****ogy of being in a boat paddling over the edge of a cliff to destruction...
"Does it really matter they all were on the same beat? is the question I asked him....

.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

I haven't stopped by a Well lately, but if I do and find a women there, she might want to avoid me.

my point is that when I read your response to the quotation of MLK jr. I was struck by how much your words reminded me of a question asked in the Bible..."Am I my brother's keeper?"

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

my point is that when I read your response to the quotation of MLK jr. I was struck by how much your words reminded me of a question asked in the Bible..."Am I my brother's keeper?"

Most families have someone in their family they wish not to be with on Sundays, why make it more complicated?
You can be your brother's keeper and just for some reason or other not wanting to ***ociate with them.
I say, it is their business and not any one else. Kinda like one of my brother in laws, love the guy just hate sometimes having him around.

[James Banta]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Most families have someone in their family they wish not to be with on Sundays, why make it more complicated?
You can be your brother's keeper and just for some reason or other not wanting to ***ociate with them.
I say, it is their business and not any one else. Kinda like one of my brother in laws, love the guy just hate sometimes having him around.

But that doesn't mean you wouldn't be there if he really needed your help now does it.. I personally don't know how the Lord uses the resources that the Church are given by the children of God. But I know that millions are helped by the Church.. Some in one one some in another.. Whether it be a home, an education, clean water, clothing or food the Church is there to help the helpless, feed the hungry, and care for the widowed and the orphan..

Have you heard of the mercy ships? They do from port to port treating the children of the world that are even rejected by their own people. The doctors there restore their lives as the nurses hold them and comfort their fears.





While I won't explain my involvement in this work I will say that the Church today indeed follows the admonitions of the Apostle James.. We are our brothers keepers.. If your heart is moved to be involved in this work, DON'T TELL ME, Go to https://donate.mercyships.org/mercys..._campaign=paid and let them know of your willingness to serve God at their side.. IHS jim

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by RealFakeHair

Most families have someone in their family they wish not to be with on Sundays, why make it more complicated?
You can be your brother's keeper and just for some reason or other not wanting to ***ociate with them.
I say, it is their business and not any one else. Kinda like one of my brother in laws, love the guy just hate sometimes having him around.

Say, what was Mathew's *** again?_________ ___________




My point?
The lesson is that later in the Bible, when someone is truly a real problem to deal with, and he simply is doing all kinds of things wrong, so much so that it gets to the point where you toss them out of the church.....the final **** is to treat them in the future just like they were the worst type of person to be around or ***ociated with.....

Guess what type of person they list you treat them like?___ _______




Jesus went out of His way to give us an example!
This is no accident!!!

...the example is that we don't get to pat ourselves on the back for avoiding people...no matter how much we want to avoid them
No matter how many good reasons we have to list...
.
This fits with his teaching that we are to do "good things' to the very people out to cause us the most harm.

Not just avoid them,,,not just help them when they might ask for help....But to really seek ways to do good things for such a person.

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Say, what was Mathew's *** again?_________ ___________




My point?
The lesson is that later in the Bible, when someone is truly a real problem to deal with, and he simply is doing all kinds of things wrong, so much so that it gets to the point where you toss them out of the church.....the final **** is to treat them in the future just like they were the worst type of person to be around or ***ociated with.....

Guess what type of person they list you treat them like?___ _______




Jesus went out of His way to give us an example!
This is no accident!!!

...the example is that we don't get to pat ourselves on the back for avoiding people...no matter how much we want to avoid them
No matter how many good reasons we have to list...
.
This fits with his teaching that we are to do "good things' to the very people out to cause us the most harm.

Not just avoid them,,,not just help them when they might ask for help....But to really seek ways to do good things for such a person.

We all from time to time wish to avoid people, it's only human to do so. I just don't see the big deal here. That's not to say, when the opportunity comes our way we act on it, or in some case not. Like the other day, on the Inter state, a woman was broke down. My wife asked why I didn't stop to help her? The answer was, first it is a dangerous place on the hwy, second she had a cell phone, and third it was in the middle of the day. There was no reason for me to stop. Now things could have been different, and who knows maybe I would have stopped and maybe not.

[alanmolstad]

In Seattle I was asked to speak at a church on the East-side of the lake.
When I spoke there I noted that there was abut a 50-50 mix of white people and black people.
Later the Pastor talked to me about how he built his church outreach around the idea of getting people of different color to worship at the same place at the same time.

Now this all sounded great.
and at first glance it sure looked like it was a church that was setting a very good example for others that were only all-black or all-white.

But then I looked a bit closer....

It turns out that this church was filled mostly with Christians that were in a mixed marriage.
If you were black and married a person who was white, you were pointed in this church's direction.

So on the surface it may have looked like this church was different, but the truth is , it was just a normal collection of people that looked the same.....they all were "mixed"

This is the normal way we do things as people....
We have a natural tendency to seek out people that we look like...or sound like....or have things in common with....or can get along with the most easy.

But the example Jesus left us is to seek to not fall into this same pattern.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Say, what was Mathew's *** again?_________ ___________




My point?
The lesson is that later in the Bible, when someone is truly a real problem to deal with, and he simply is doing all kinds of things wrong, so much so that it gets to the point where you toss them out of the church.....the final **** is to treat them in the future just like they were the worst type of person to be around or ***ociated with.....

Guess what type of person they list you treat them like?___ _______




Jesus went out of His way to give us an example!
This is no accident!!!

...the example is that we don't get to pat ourselves on the back for avoiding people...no matter how much we want to avoid them
No matter how many good reasons we have to list...
.
This fits with his teaching that we are to do "good things' to the very people out to cause us the most harm.

Not just avoid them,,,not just help them when they might ask for help....But to really seek ways to do good things for such a person.

By the way, the answer is "Tax Collector "

[RealFakeHair]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

In Seattle I was asked to speak at a church on the East-side of the lake.
When I spoke there I noted that there was abut a 50-50 mix of white people and black people.
Later the Pastor talked to me about how he built his church outreach around the idea of getting people of different color to worship at the same place at the same time.

Now this all sounded great.
and at first glance it sure looked like it was a church that was setting a very good example for others that were only all-black or all-white.

But then I looked a bit closer....

It turns out that this church was filled mostly with Christians that were in a mixed marriage.
If you were black and married a person who was white, you were pointed in this church's direction.

So on the surface it may have looked like this church was different, but the truth is , it was just a normal collection of people that looked the same.....they all were "mixed"

This is the normal way we do things as people....
We have a natural tendency to seek out people that we look like...or sound like....or have things in common with....or can get along with the most easy.

But the example Jesus left us is to seek to not fall into this same pattern.

Here in the South we now have a problem when an inter-city church turns from white, to mix to, it's all goes well until the church is split about 50/50 then at one point or the other culture differences come into play. Everything from music to the color of the carpet is a fight, and when it comes time to pick a new pastor, things can really get ugly.
This is why I believe in the future things will be more Balkanized then Multicultural.