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Thread: Free Will

  1. #1276
    Libby
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    Phoenix, I know you believe in proselytizing, because your church does it, as well.

    But, something Gordon Hinckley said, that I think was good advice (and maybe he was quoting someone else) was that we should build someone a new and better house, before we tear down the old.

    I think critics of the LDS Church (including myself) sometimes get that backwards...which could be why so many ex-Mormons end up as atheists.

    Just a thought.

  2. #1277
    alanmolstad
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    Man has Free Will, and God is Sovereign

    The two concepts work hand-in-hand with each other....

  3. #1278
    Libby
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    Interesting to me (because I love to see connections) that we had a guest Pastor, at my church, this morning, who is very into apologetics; so his talk was on "always be prepared to give and answer".

    1 Peter 3:15 (excerpt) "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

    This is a man I wouldn't mind spending a lot of time with, because he has some really good answers. I also liked that he put an emphasis on the end of that verse (with gentleness and respect).

    He said, first of all, live and behave in ways that might attract another to wonder what your "secret" is. You cannot attract people to the light, if your lifestyle is not reflecting that light.
    Last edited by Libby; 06-15-2014 at 07:08 PM.

  4. #1279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Phoenix, I know you believe in proselytizing, because your church does it, as well.

    But, something Gordon Hinckley said, that I think was good advice (and maybe he was quoting someone else) was that we should build someone a new and better house, before we tear down the old.

    I think critics of the LDS Church (including myself) sometimes get that backwards...which could be why so many ex-Mormons end up as atheists.
    Just a thought.
    And a good thought it is, with some truth in it I am sure. Thanks for sharing it.

  5. #1280
    John T
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Man has Free Will, and God is Sovereign

    The two concepts work hand-in-hand with each other....
    RIGHTO!
    Since they are both in the Bible, they are friends, not enemies.

    Just because we can not understand the mind of God in this matter, it is not necessary to bring Him down to our level by quibbling about something that God does not want us to reconcile (yet). He is God, and we are not.

  6. #1281
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    RIGHTO!
    Since they are both in the Bible, they are friends, not enemies.

    Just because we can not understand the mind of God in this matter, it is not necessary to bring Him down to our level by quibbling about something that God does not want us to reconcile (yet). He is God, and we are not.

    I believe this post of John's about sums up where this topic ended up at for us all here.....that man has Free Will, yet God is sovereign

  7. #1282
    Libby
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    I think that was a very wise thing that John said, regarding not really knowing and to leave it be.

  8. #1283
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    so a lot of people that dont like the term "Free Will" have a way they use to get around it's use by saying that people just "feel" free.....

    They admit that people sure feel they were not forced to do stuff...
    But what they then leave off is that the people might have felt things that were not true at all.

    But I have to object to this whole line of arguement.
    If you are thinking that people just "feel" free, and just "feel" they have Free Will, but really they dont, then you are not talking about real Free Will at all.

    You are describing a lie....or a self-lie.....or a delusion.....or a self-delusion.

    NONE of these things can be true!


    if we were designed by God to just "feel" free,...to just "feel' that we had Free Will, then our God is a big fat lie.....and evil.
    For he designed us with built-in delusions , and that would point the finger of sin into his corner.
    God would be guilty of creating a person who has a built-in design flaw that is the cause of all people believeing a lie, just to make god look good.

    i would not worship a god like that.



    So this means that I totally reject the idea that we just "feel" free....

    I totally reject the idea that human free will is just a delusion.


    Human Free Will is REAL!

    God gave man the ability to make free decisions...real decisions....Not fake real-looking decisions...But real TRUE decisions that are free from being forced.
    I was reading over this whole topic, and I find a lot of the things I have said in the past do still ring so very true!

    This post above is very close to my heart and is something that I think is about the best thing I have written to date on this topic.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 10-21-2017 at 08:55 AM.

  9. #1284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libby View Post
    Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest".

    God gently draws us to Him, but then we must have the "faith" to accept His calling.

    I hope you will watch the videos, as well, Christian. Dr. Geisler puts it so simply and absolutely according to scripture.

    And FAITH is a GIFT FROM GOD, not something you can conjure up from within yourself. You CANNOT DECIDE willy-nilly to receive Jesus as your Savior IF you are a vessel molded by the maker for dishonorable use. IF God did not CHOOSE YOU before the beginnings of the world, you will end up (as most people will) in hell.


  10. #1285
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    as long as they still have their free will, there is the fully opportunity to come to the Lord...

    My Bible never says that. SHOW ME THE P***AGE THAT YOU THINK DOES. . .

  11. #1286
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post

    My Bible never says that. SHOW ME THE P***AGE THAT YOU THINK DOES. . .


    http://biblehub.com/matthew/23-37.htm


    Jesus cries over the city, and says they "would not" come to him,,,,this shows that the people could have and yet decided on their own not to.

    Had Jesus said "could not" then this would have taught that people dont always have free will, and that they cant decide to come to the Lord on their own.


    The moment Jesus said, "would not" it shows us that as long as you had free will there was nothing stopping you from coming to the Lord...
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 11-01-2017 at 04:39 AM.

  12. #1287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyray View Post
    Here is the second verse given in your link

    John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

    This is certainly true that if a man doesn't believe in Christ and know that He is God then he will die in his sins. Let's look down a few verses to see what else Christ said to these guys.

    Alan if anything this section of scripture teaches against "free will".

    Why didn't these guys hear the words of God?"
    Billyray, please Show me ONE SINGLE P***AGE that says we have 'free will' OUTSIDE of God's pre-ordained choice of WHO IS HIS OR NOT.
    Eph 1:3-4
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
    NKJV

    Do you think you 'chose' Jesus on your own?

    Naaah, you didn't.

    Jesus said:
    John 6:44
    44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    NKJV

    AND


    John 6:65
    65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
    NKJV


  13. #1288
    alanmolstad
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    My views on the issue have been posted on such topics for years I would guess by now.
    Simply put:,,,that within the preordained command of God over His universe there is taken into account the free will of men and our ability to respond to Him...

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