Sandra Tanner Interview: "I came to Jesus through the Bible...and the Book of Mormon"

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I am not on the sidelines in regards to Mormonism, but I am not you. Why don't you just trust God and allow him to work through me in the way he sees fit? Have I repented of Mormonism? Yes..I turned away from that along time ago. But, I have to say, I believe God had a plan for me, through that experience...in other words there was a reason I was there.

As for John Calvin, I would not call him "a great Christian", when he has led so many people into error. I'm not saying he wasn't a Christian, either, and I don't believe he was "evil"...but, I can certainly understand why some believe he was. Even many Evangelicals believe he was "evil", Apologette.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/calvin_servetus.htm

I don't give a flying heck what you think about John Calvin, you haven't exactly demonstrated any consistent ability to recognize true doctrine from false doctrine. And if you hate John Calvin so much, what the heck are you doing going to a Christian Reformed Church which derives its doctrines from John Calvin? You just set yourself up as judge over Calvin when, in reality, you need to judge you own beliefs. Your sloppy agape approach to Mormonism is never going to lead one soul out of that horror house of doctrine, but your refusal to call Mormonism a giant mound of the doctrines of demons just may lead many to believe, "hey, it's ain't so bad."

By the way, Servetus is one of the examples MORMONS use to badmouth John Calvin - and Servetus rejected the Holy Trinity.....whereas Joe Smith called the Holy Trinity a three-headed monster. If I thought God was using sloppy agape to help anyone, I'd back off - but never in all the long years I've been a Christian (and not a Hindu or a Mormon besides) I've never seen that compromising technique of sloppy agape lead anybody away from Mormonism or any other cult.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

John Calvin became a major stumbling block for me, as I was trying to enter back into mainstream Christianity. The more I studied his theology, the more I was convicted that it could not be true. I even read three of the four books of Calvin's Ins***utes. John Calvin was very bright and also very opinionated and had a quite caustic personality. It really shows through in the Ins***utes.

The read was interesting, to say the least.

Caustic? He couldn't hold a candle to that devil Joe Smith, and you seemed to have loved him well enough, didn't you? Let's see - John Calvin who upheld the traditional, creedal forumals as opposed to the pedophile, Joe Smith, who said our creeds were an abomination? Golly, which would have been used of God? Which would have been an emissary of Satan?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Yes, this shows Joseph's modalistic beliefs, in the beginning, which then changed to the separate personages, you see in the later version.

Not just separate personages, the evil Smith became a full-****n polytheistic heretic and taught that god was once a human who grew up on another planet, and that all men are potential gods. This is sheer paganism.

[Libby]

I'm not going to defend Joseph Smith. He did, indeed, do some evil things, IMO. But, I'm not going to defend John Calvin, either, who also did some evil, IMO (and in the opinion of many others).

I attend a Reformed Church with my husband, because it's his desire, at this time. I did choose the church, because I thought Calvinism was the most correct interpretation, at the time. I don't believe that anymore, but I do still find God and much edification in this church.

[Libby]

Apologette, I don't really care if you believe me or not. You seem to be very hostile towards anyone who doesn't precisely agree with your take on things. That's YOUR way, I guess, and I'm sure God does use you, in spite of that (just as as he uses all of his children, in spite of their weaknesses...or even through their weaknesses, sometimes).

I did read the first three books of John Calvin's Ins***utes. I even took a cl*** on them...an online cl*** through Covenant Theological Society. I still have the lessons downloaded on my iTunes.

When I say "caustic" (in regards to John Calvin) I simply mean he spoke his mind very bluntly and often had unkind words for his critics. I was in ongoing discussions with my "Reformed" Pastor who very much agreed with that ***essment. He said, he was quite a character...he was no staid, conservative, boring theologian (as some people might think), that's for sure. He had a very animated personality.

[Libby]

I've never seen that compromising technique of sloppy agape lead anybody away from Mormonism or any other cult.

Well, like I said, God uses us despite our weaknesses. I did lead someone out of Mormonism and it was kind of traumatic, after the fact. He did not leave for Christianity, but became an atheist. It made me question what in the heck I was doing.

I'm not ever going to be a "street screecher" (which is what I call people who use that method, even on the internet). That is simply not in me.

I think, in order to influence anyone, you first have to understand them, love them, care about them (more than just the fact that you believe they are headed for hell). People don't generally listen to someone they perceive is "hating" on them.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I'm not going to defend Joseph Smith. He did, indeed, do some evil things, IMO. But, I'm not going to defend John Calvin, either, who also did some evil, IMO (and in the opinion of many others).

I attend a Reformed Church with my husband, because it's his desire, at this time. I did choose the church, because I thought Calvinism was the most correct interpretation, at the time. I don't believe that anymore, but I do still find God and much edification in this church.

So, what is the "correct" interpretation of the Scriptures? And to say Joseph Smith did SOME evil things is beyond comprehension! His whole life what one mound of demonic evil - a pedophile, adulterer, liar, banking criminal, polygamist, polytheist, and hater of the Christian Church, had himself crowned king over Israel, and leader of the murderous Danites - some evil? My dear, he was a person who totally gave himself over to Satan, and taught others to do the same.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Well, like I said, God uses us despite our weaknesses. I did lead someone out of Mormonism and it was kind of traumatic, after the fact. He did not leave for Christianity, but became an atheist. It made me question what in the heck I was doing.

I'm not ever going to be a "street screecher" (which is what I call people who use that method, even on the internet). That is simply not in me.

I think, in order to influence anyone, you first have to understand them, love them, care about them (more than just the fact that you believe they are headed for hell). People don't generally listen to someone they perceive is "hating" on them.

I'm not a "street screecher," and I don't go parading in front on Mormon temples ( nor do I think Christians should do that) but I don't pander to those who are in Mormonism either - and leading someone out of Mormonism who went into atheism is really nothing you should bring up - most Mormons who leave the cult become atheists (with or without help)!

Look at your pal, Val, who on CARM has now said he's both an ex-Mormon and ex-Christian - maybe he can get into New Age Psychobabble next and become "fully human." Just because a person leaves Mormonism does not mean he is converted to Christ - for the most part, they are non-believers, have no regard for Christ, and are two times more a child of hell than when they began. Or, as happened to you, they go from one cult to another, which is a cross-cult dynamic that is common in those who become invovled in cultic systems.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Well, like I said, God uses us despite our weaknesses. I did lead someone out of Mormonism and it was kind of traumatic, after the fact. He did not leave for Christianity, but became an atheist. It made me question what in the heck I was doing.

I'm not ever going to be a "street screecher" (which is what I call people who use that method, even on the internet). That is simply not in me.

I think, in order to influence anyone, you first have to understand them, love them, care about them (more than just the fact that you believe they are headed for hell). People don't generally listen to someone they perceive is "hating" on them.

You know Libby, this is where you and I part ways big time - once a person is in a cult such as the Mormons, there's a 99 percent chance he will never leave it. They are brainwashed by the cult, refuse to evaluate it on a rational level, and could care less about facts. If God is going to lead them out, He will - otherwise, they stay in the cult. You and I can lead nobody out of a cult.

However, we can prevent people from hooking up with Mormonism in the first place. Mormon baptisms are down; only 4 to 6 million Mormons, out of a supposed baptized 16 million, are even active in the cult. There are more people leaving Mormonism today than did in Kirtland when Joe Smith ripped off his followers financially. Mormonism is, thank God, going the way of Christian Science. The key is not in dragging people out of Mormonism, but in stopping people from joining the cult in the first place. Those in the cult are in God's hands, and you and I are not God. But we can warn people not to get involved - and you don't do that by saying things like, "Joseph Smith did SOME EVIL."

[Libby]

Apologette, you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

I just disagree with your mode. I think it often turns people off to your message...even non-Mormons. I know that to be true, because I have heard the complaints in various places.

You think I am too wishy-washy. I think you are too harsh.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Apologette, you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

I just disagree with your mode. I think it often turns people off to your message...even non-Mormons. I know that to be true, because I have heard the complaints in various places.

You think I am too wishy-washy. I think you are too harsh.

Oh, complaints by those you have called the "street screechers" here? Are they aware of the fact that you use that term? I really don't care if they or Mormons feel all warm and bubbly about my posts, I know that many have read the truth and not become involved in Mormonism. Also, I'm not the one who has been following after false teachers. Maybe you could learn something from what I do post.

As far as being "wishy washy," I've already mentioned that sloppy agape will save nobody. I just don't know if you've ever repented of believing in Mormonism or Hinduism for that matter. Where's your testimony? Others who have left have given their testimony - where is yours? Do you have one? Last time I was here posting full time you were defending Yogananda and his Hindu cult! Then all of a sudden you show up on the Mormon forum. What is your explanation? Can you see why Christians would be slightly suspicious?

[Libby]

Also, I'm not the one who has been following after false teachers. Maybe you could learn something from what I do post.

I have learned things from you, Apologette. A couple of things you said over on the "Free Will" thread were inspiring. In most things I agree with you more often than not. I just, sometimes, cringe at the way you talk to Mormons. Maybe, that 's my failing..I'm sure it is to some large degree....and perhaps it's, also, something that you need to work on. We all have our faults and weaknesses.

I do, very much, have a testimony of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. But, it's been a long difficult road.

I had my testimony up on Russ' site for a long time, but finally asked him to take it down, when I was having second thoughts about trying to bring LDS out of the church...

[alanmolstad]

my advice......dont share the personal stuff.......

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Libby

Well, like I said, God uses us despite our weaknesses. I did lead someone out of Mormonism and it was kind of traumatic, after the fact. He did not leave for Christianity, but became an atheist. It made me question what in the heck I was doing.

I'm not ever going to be a "street screecher" (which is what I call people who use that method, even on the internet). That is simply not in me.

I think, in order to influence anyone, you first have to understand them, love them, care about them (more than just the fact that you believe they are headed for hell). People don't generally listen to someone they perceive is "hating" on them.

wise words.....well spoke.
I enjoy your posts, and hope you will go on to have a very rich faith life and come back here and tell me all about it!

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I have learned things from you, Apologette. A couple of things you said over on the "Free Will" thread were inspiring. In most things I agree with you more often than not. I just, sometimes, cringe at the way you talk to Mormons. Maybe, that 's my failing..I'm sure it is to some large degree....and perhaps it's, also, something that you need to work on. We all have our faults and weaknesses.

I do, very much, have a testimony of Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. But, it's been a long difficult road.

I had my testimony up on Russ' site for a long time, but finally asked him to take it down, when I was having second thoughts about trying to bring LDS out of the church...

Yes, I recall when you asked him to take it down. Look, I'm not an evangelist to Mormons -there are a few I talk to on that level, but as a whole, I see them as tools of Satan, heretics. And what does the Bible say about heretics, Libby? "After the first and second admonition, reject them." It doesn't say pander to their "concerns" (the word that the Mormon "scholar" so-called loves to use), or be gentle with them. No, it says REJECT them. "A man that is an HERETIC after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." ***us 3:10-11. The person is "condemned of himself," in other words, by his own false beliefs, thereby sinning and being subverted.

Now I've had a personal relationship with one Mormon on CARM for years. We exchange emails. You'd be shocked to know who that is. And that is because I'm led of the Lord in that regard about this particular individual. But other than this one Mormon, I believe we are dealing with those who have completely turned their hearts and souls over to Joseph Smith and come to the boards to undermine the Gospel of Our Lord. So, what does one do? One tells the truth (you'll note that most of my threads there deal with Mormon history and doctrine) so that those looking in for information will be informed. Information is our best weapon against Mormon deception. So, I'm not an evangelist to the Mormons, but a student of Mormonism, its history and doctrine, and feel that my outreach is to those who are in the process of being deceived, or who have been approached by a neighbor or friend who is a Mormon and are researching it. Speaking "truth" to "deception" is what needs to be done to stem the Mormon onslaught and drive them back.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

my advice......dont share the personal stuff.......

I mostly agree with that, because I know I have shared way too much in the past. But, a part of me believes that we do have to make ourselves somewhat vulnerable, when speaking of Christ and our journey...especially if we are trying to influence people in such a personal area, as religion.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

wise words.....well spoke.
I enjoy your posts, and hope you will go on to have a very rich faith life and come back here and tell me all about it!

Thanks, Alan. You have always been very encouraging. I appreciate that.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Yes, I recall when you asked him to take it down. Look, I'm not an evangelist to Mormons -there are a few I talk to on that level, but as a whole, I see them as tools of Satan, heretics. And what does the Bible say about heretics, Libby? "After the first and second admonition, reject them." It doesn't say pander to their "concerns" (the word that the Mormon "scholar" so-called loves to use), or be gentle with them. No, it says REJECT them. "A man that is an HERETIC after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." ***us 3:10-11. The person is "condemned of himself," in other words, by his own false beliefs, thereby sinning and being subverted.

Now I've had a personal relationship with one Mormon on CARM for years. We exchange emails. You'd be shocked to know who that is. And that is because I'm led of the Lord in that regard about this particular individual. But other than this one Mormon, I believe we are dealing with those who have completely turned their hearts and souls over to Joseph Smith and come to the boards to undermine the Gospel of Our Lord. So, what does one do? One tells the truth (you'll note that most of my threads there deal with Mormon history and doctrine) so that those looking in for information will be informed. Information is our best weapon against Mormon deception. So, I'm not an evangelist to the Mormons, but a student of Mormonism, its history and doctrine, and feel that my outreach is to those who are in the process of being deceived, or who have been approached by a neighbor or friend who is a Mormon and are researching it. Speaking "truth" to "deception" is what needs to be done to stem the Mormon onslaught and drive them back.

Yes, I understand what you're doing and I think that's fine.

The thing is, I'm glad that the people who spoke with me about Christ, didn't give up after just a couple of admonitions. I would still be LDS, if that had been the case. A couple of people, in particular, spent hours, both in email and on the phone, talking and praying with me (and for me). I so appreciate those people. I appreciate people like Alan and Billy who will spend time talking about the Bible and their beliefs, even when we disagree. So, I would feel like an ingrate, if I simply cast off all Mormon people as hopeless heretics. I was once a hopeless heretic, myself.

So, I think God expects something from me on behalf of the Mormon people. I just have to listen and follow His lead.

Oh, and Apologette, I'm pretty sure I know who you have been talking to.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

Yes, I understand what you're doing and I think that's fine.

The thing is, I'm glad that the people who spoke with me about Christ, didn't give up after just a couple of admonitions. I would still be LDS, if that had been the case. A couple of people, in particular, spent hours, both in email and on the phone, talking and praying with me (and for me). I so appreciate those people. I appreciate people like Alan and Billy who will spend time talking about the Bible and their beliefs, even when we disagree. So, I would feel like an ingrate, if I simply cast off all Mormon people as hopeless heretics. I was once a hopeless heretic, myself.

So, I think God expects something from me on behalf of the Mormon people. I just have to listen and follow His lead.

Oh, and Apologette, I'm pretty sure I know who you have been talking to.

It's one thing to witness on a personal level to somebody, quite another to post on a board dedicated to apologetics. Apologetics is for the defense of the faith. By the way, how did you become invovled in Mormonism in the first place? Weren't you raised Christian?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Apologette

It's one thing to witness on a personal level to somebody, quite another to post on a board dedicated to apologetics. ?

says who?

where is that written down?

[alanmolstad]

talking to some person to person can be scarey as the words you might say can really change a person's life.

compare that to posting on an internet chat or message forum...where no matter how hard you try to write something, the next guy posting 2 seconds after you can cancel-out all you have said with the use of a frowny-face

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Apologette

It's one thing to witness on a personal level to somebody, quite another to post on a board dedicated to apologetics. Apologetics is for the defense of the faith. By the way, how did you become invovled in Mormonism in the first place? Weren't you raised Christian?

Move on, move on.

[Libby]

Originally Posted by Apologette

It's one thing to witness on a personal level to somebody, quite another to post on a board dedicated to apologetics. Apologetics is for the defense of the faith. By the way, how did you become invovled in Mormonism in the first place? Weren't you raised Christian?

I was witnessing over on CARM to the person I mentioned above. It wasn't a "face to face" exchange.

How I got involved with Mormonism is kind of a long story. Briefly, I had been very agnostic for many years, after I left SRF in the 70's. I had felt a "hole" in my life for along time, but I was busy going to school, raising kids and with life, in general, and didn't really pursue anything spiritual. In 2000/2001 I experienced a chain of events that left me feeling a great need for God in my life, again. It seemed like I was being led into the LDS Church, because so many things happened that led me in that direction. I ended up reading the entire Book of Mormon, within about a month's time. I received a great deal of comfort from various parts of it...and I was then baptized into the church.

That's the short version.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Libby

I was witnessing over on CARM to the person I mentioned above. It wasn't a "face to face" exchange.

How I got involved with Mormonism is kind of a long story. Briefly, I had been very agnostic for many years, after I left SRF in the 70's. I had felt a "hole" in my life for along time, but I was busy going to school, raising kids and with life, in general, and didn't really pursue anything spiritual. In 2000/2001 I experienced a chain of events that left me feeling a great need for God in my life, again. It seemed like I was being led into the LDS Church, because so many things happened that led me in that direction. I ended up reading the entire Book of Mormon, within about a month's time. I received a great deal of comfort from various parts of it...and I was then baptized into the church.

That's the short version.

I have never found anything comforting at all about the Book of Mormon and think it is a poorly written imitation of the Bible. So, basically, though raised in the Christian church as a child, you never were regenerated through faith in Christ, drifted into a Hindu-based fellowship, but this was not fulfilling; then you were lured into Mormonism by " a great need in your life" that you believed Mormonism could somehow fill.

I ***ume that you left Mormonism after some time, drifted back into SRF, and now are attending a Christian Church. Tell me, when you were in Mormonism did its Christology bother you at all? Its rejection of the Trinity? How much did you know about the lifestyle of Joseph Smith? And, finally, through all these sad events, did you finally throw up your hands and tell the Lord Jesus that you were a sinner and needed him to save you? Were you rebaptized as a Christian?

Sorry for all these questions, but now I can see more clearly the effects these events have had in your life.

[Libby]

then you were lured into Mormonism by " a great need in your life" that you believed Mormonism could somehow fill.

Perhaps, it was "lured", but you have to understand, at the time, I felt led by God, through a whole series of events that happened fairly close together. These things just fell into my lap, once I started praying to God, again. I had a very difficult time with that, once I realized Mormonism was not true....like God had lied to me. I know that's not possible, but it was confusing to me, at first. I think this happens to a lot of LDS and one of the main reasons they drop out of religion altogether. So sad.

Once I started really reading/studying the Bible, I began to realize the problem was mine.