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Thread: So, Who are the "Sectarians?"

  1. #1
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    Default So, Who are the "Sectarians?"

    Mormons love to designate Christians as being "sectarian." They derive this epithet from the Campbellite sects who love to lash out at all other Christians as being sub-Christian. Mormonism grew out of Campbellism, and carried the attack against Christianity to the extreme. Sectarianism, according to one definition, is b i g o t r y, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, cl***, regional or factions of a political movement. (Wikipedia)

    I would like to point out that Mormonism is not some kind of subdivision of Christianity - it is a totally different religion. Islam, in fact, has more in common with Christianity than Mormonism, since Islam is at least monotheistic while Mormonism is far closer to a religion such as Hinduism, as both groups are highly polytheistic. But for the purpose of this thread, let's pretend that Mormonism is a subdivision of Christianity.

    Are Mormons guilty of the very "sectarianism" with which they label the historic Christian Church? Are they, in fact, the ones who are bigoted and antagonistic toward those churches preaching the traditional biblical Gospel of Christ? Let's look at some of the very bigoted and hateful statements made by the past leadership of the Mormon cult:

    "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ***** of all the earth." (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)

    "Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Documentary History of the Church, Introduction, xl)

    "I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

    "...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

    "...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

    "The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

    "We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's *** told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).

    "The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a comp***, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to **** them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).

    "What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

    "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

    "Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap ****ation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

    "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." (Joseph Smith, DHC 1:6)

    "I spoke of the impropriety of turning away from the truth, and going after a people so des***ute of righteousness as the Methodists." (Joseph Smith, DHC 2:319)

    "...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and p***ions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

    "...brother Heber C. Kimball was beset by a number of Baptist priests who had been attending a conference. He read them all down out of the New Testament....With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world." (Brigham Young, JD 8:199).

    "The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon...." (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity," no.6, p.84).

    "...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)

    "And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act." (Orson Pratt, OP-WA, "The Kingdom of God," no.2, p.6)

    "...all other churches are entirely des***ute of all authority from God; and any person who recieves baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt people." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg. 255)

    "...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

    "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "***** of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

    "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." (Brigham Young, JD 6:176)

    "Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)

    "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christiandom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common orgin. They belong to Babylon." (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p.324)

    So, my Christian friends, next time some misinformed Mormon comes here and calls Christians here "sectarian," let's show him that the Mormon cult is the most sectarian organization that has probably ever existed on the American continent!
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    I would like to point out that Mormonism is not some kind of subdivision of Christianity - it is a totally different religion.
    This is a sectarian position. Every objective source I've ever seen cl***ifies Mormonism under Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    This is a sectarian position. Every objective source I've ever seen cl***ifies Mormonism under Christianity.
    Are you serious? Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans (which, by the way make up the majority of those called Christian), along with all Evangelicals REBAPTIZE any Mormon wanting to join their respective fellowships. Why is that? Because Mormons have a different God, a different Jesus and a different "gospel." They are considered to be outside of the Body of Christ. Your sources are what? Pew Research?
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Are you serious?
    Yep.

    Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans (which, by the way make up the majority of those called Christian), along with all Evangelicals REBAPTIZE any Mormon wanting to join their respective fellowships.
    That's okay; we REBAPTIZE Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, and Evangelicals who want to join our fellowship.

    Why is that? Because Mormons have a different God, a different Jesus and a different "gospel."
    That's right; we have the Biblical God, the Biblical Jesus, and the Biblical gospel.

    Your sources are what? Pew Research?
    Every objective source I've ever seen. I don't remember if Pew Research is one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Yep.


    That's okay; we REBAPTIZE Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, and Evangelicals who want to join our fellowship.


    That's right; we have the Biblical God, the Biblical Jesus, and the Biblical gospel.


    Every objective source I've ever seen. I don't remember if Pew Research is one of them.
    Show me where even one Christian Church in the historic line of Christianity says Mormonism is Christian. Since you have all this knowledge and wisdom, that should be easy for you.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Show me where even one Christian Church in the historic line of Christianity says Mormonism is Christian.
    If you can show that it is necessary that at least one Christian church in the historic line of Christianity say a church is Christian in order for it to be Christian, and then identify which churches are "in the historic line of Christianity" that you would accept, I'll give it a shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    If you can show that it is necessary that at least one Christian church in the historic line of Christianity say a church is Christian in order for it to be Christian, and then identify which churches are "in the historic line of Christianity" that you would accept, I'll give it a shot.
    Oh, for instance the Mar Thoma Church founded by St. Thomas - or even the Syrain Antiochian Church, where believers were first called Christians. NO Christian Church accepts Mormonism as being a Christian Church, and you cannot point to any that do, not one. You are the one saying that Christians believe Mormons are Christians - now prove it.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Oh, for instance the Mar Thoma Church founded by St. Thomas - or even the Syrain Antiochian Church, where believers were first called Christians.
    Okay, I'll see if I can find anything online from one of these churches as soon as you show it's necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Okay, I'll see if I can find anything online from one of these churches as soon as you show it's necessary.
    Fine. But I can tell you right now, Erundur, that Mormonism is not considered to be a Christian religion by any genuine Christian Church. Maybe the Unitarians might accept you, but then they deny the Trinity. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses reject Mormonism as being Christian (and they are even Christians either).
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Every objective source I've ever seen cl***ifies Mormonism under Christianity.
    Here are some examples of objective sources (that is, organizations orwebsites that don't have a vested interest either way) cl***ifying Mormonism as Christian:

    Wikipedia: "Mormonism is the predominant religious tradition of the Latter Day Saint movement of Restorationist Christianity."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

    Adherents.com: Lists Latter Day Saints as a major denominational family of Christianity.
    http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity

    The Library of Congress: Cl***ifies the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (BX 8601-8695) under subcl*** BX: Christian Denominations.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library..._Denominations

    The Polis Center: Cl***ifies the Church of Jesus Christ under Other Christian.
    http://www.polis.iupui.edu/RUC/Resea...s_as_table.htm

    Pew Research Center: Cl***ifies Mormon as a Christian religious tradition.
    http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Here are some examples of objective sources (that is, organizations orwebsites that don't have a vested interest either way) cl***ifying Mormonism as Christian:

    Wikipedia: "Mormonism is the predominant religious tradition of the Latter Day Saint movement of Restorationist Christianity."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

    Adherents.com: Lists Latter Day Saints as a major denominational family of Christianity.
    http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity

    The Library of Congress: Cl***ifies the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (BX 8601-8695) under subcl*** BX: Christian Denominations.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library..._Denominations

    The Polis Center: Cl***ifies the Church of Jesus Christ under Other Christian.
    http://www.polis.iupui.edu/RUC/Resea...s_as_table.htm

    Pew Research Center: Cl***ifies Mormon as a Christian religious tradition.
    http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
    Every Christian Church denies that Mormon baptisms are valid - including the Catholics!
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Every Christian Church denies that Mormon baptisms are valid
    Almost--the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't. But that's okay, we deny that their baptisms are valid, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Almost--the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn't. But that's okay, we deny that their baptisms are valid, too.
    Joseph Smith baptized Oliver Cowdery and Oliver baptized Joe. That has about as much "authority" as having a Muslim baptize you.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    Joseph Smith baptized Oliver Cowdery and Oliver baptized Joe. That has about as much "authority" as having a Muslim baptize you.
    Hardly, since they had the authority to baptize. Muslims don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Hardly, since they had the authority to baptize. Muslims don't.
    They had no authority, except from each other. Live with it.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    They had no authority, except from each other. Live with it.
    This is true...

    Joe Smith seems to have listened to not an angel from heaven to start his religion, but his zipper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    They had no authority, except from each other. Live with it.
    Of course they did. Live with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Of course they did. Live with it.
    You have as much authority in the Christian Church as Buddha. If you want to follow a pedophile prophet, then "live with it."
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    You have as much authority in the Christian Church as Buddha.
    Prove it. I can trace my authority to Jesus Christ. Can Buddha?

    If you want to follow a pedophile prophet, then "live with it."
    But I don't, so you can live with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Prove it. I can trace my authority to Jesus Christ. Can Buddha?


    But I don't, so you can live with it.
    You trace your "authority" to a pedophile who used his power to seduce teenage girls. You have no authority - you are deluded.
    Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post
    You trace your "authority" to a pedophile who used his power to seduce teenage girls.
    As a Christian, I disagree with you that Jesus Christ was a pedophile who used his power to seduce teenage girls.

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