Why we take it literally.

[alanmolstad]

(I will try to make this up to you by posting now a bunch of things so that we have plenty of areas to talk about at your return.)

Another thing we learn here at *** 38 isall about the "waters" that the Spirit of God is busy "hovering" over in Genesis.....we learn where they came from....

[alanmolstad]

The seas are said to have "burst forth from the womb,".........

and according to science, very true too....

[alanmolstad]

Ok....time to do a little review so we can get a grasp of what we have looked at so far....


In Genesis the first thing the bible tells us that God made was the "heavens"....
and the term "heavens" can be talking about all the stars, and our sun is just a star too....so that means that right at the start of the genesis story we have the real "source" for all the light talked about later in the story....

The earth is said to be covered in water....and in *** we learned where this water came from...

Now many people have tried to twist into the story that the "waters"and "the deep" was not talking about the seas.....but there is no need to do such things....The "waters" and "the deep" can be just normal ways to talk about the seas of the earth.....

and the reason why the sea was in darkness is told to us as being just normal but very 'thick" clouds........




So there is nothing very weird or odd about the opening of the genesis story at all!
If you just stick to the text you dont need to invent all the stuff that the YEC rely on to make the story read they way they want.....

[alanmolstad]

Now let us also review where we have seen the Young Earth teachers go off the deep end on the issues we have looked at so far...

What happens is that because the YE teacher holds that the sun was not made until the 4th day, this has caused them to need to invent an answer that at least 'sounds' correct....even if there is nothing really in the Bible to support it at all.

Thus because the YE Teacher has to drag the suns creation to the 4th day, they came up with all kinds of ways to light the earth for the "Let There Be Light" verse, that does not need the sun to be around.....


This is also kinda like what the Young earth teacher will do when they need to deal with the question of "the waters" and 'the deep" that appear in the story before they believe any rain has fell on the earth yet.....

They invent answers....


they need to invent all kinds of answers, that pop in and out of favor depending on what YEC book you are reading...
In one book a YEC writer might push the "sourceless light" idea, but in a later book a different YEC writer might dismiss that idea as silly.....



I just think that if you stick close to the story as written you dont need to do any of the stuff......
The story reads just fine as is...and in complete agreement with evolution and science by the way......

[alanmolstad]

"he made the stars also."



So if Im correct, and if the bible does teach that god made the stars at genesis 1:1...then why does the Bible later say that God made the stars on the 4th day?




The answer is- Thats not actually what the text says on the 4th day.


But people read it there, How can i say its not there when you can open the Bible and see it there?

The answer is - go look a bit closer at the text there.
Here is a link to the text in question. http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-1-16/

How does the verse read?....
it reads "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.



So the way the text reads, Im totally wrong correct?

except i noticed something odd about that Bible verse....whats with the italic words "he made"?


and what does it mean again when you read a word in italic in your Bible?
The answer is that the Bible will put a word in italic when its simply added by the editor and does not appear in any translation or old m****cript.

So the fact is, the people that push the idea that god made the stars on only the 4th day, base their idea on what is clearly an addition to the text by the editor....and ...well......thats not really a good idea to base a foundational idea on such paper-thin proof.......

[alanmolstad]

so..if you take out the "he made" addition to the verse, and just stick to the parts you know are meant to be there...does the sentence work?.....
The answer is YES!......it works just fine......

"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night the stars also"

All it says is that the lesser light will rule the night and the stars also.........its no big deal...Thats after all what the lesser light still 'rules" or overpowers the darkness of the night and the sky filled with stars......

[tdidymas]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

so..if you take out the "he made" addition to the verse, and just stick to the parts you know are meant to be there...does the sentence work?.....
The answer is YES!......it works just fine......

"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night the stars also"

All it says is that the lesser light will rule the night and the stars also.........its no big deal...Thats after all what the lesser light still 'rules" or overpowers the darkness of the night and the sky filled with stars......

This is a strong argument until you look at the whole context:

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; [He made] the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

This is the context of the 4th day, and it clearly states "God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth" - if God PLACED them (or SET), then it means that God placed them there on the 4th day. If you claim that clouds were removed on that day to expose what was there already, then you are changing the text.
TD

[alanmolstad]

although times have changed, let me tell you a little story that shows how the two lights were "set".

I grew up in a small town and before Christmas at the main store on main street they would hang a curtain in the main store front window and coverup what was being prepared to show .
Then on an evening before Christmas they would pull back the covering and people could see for the very first time the things that the store had for sale this year that were new and interesting.

Now, it is true that when they pulled back the covering the things that were sitting in the window were new to the people looking.

But its not like the things just suddenly appeared there in that moment the curtain was pulled aside.
But it was the first moment that people were allowed to see what was behind the curtain.


The two lights are a bit like that in the Genesis story.

The "source" of all the lights talked about in Genesis is introduced early on with the words "In the beginning God created the heavens..."
But we also had a world covered in darkness as we learned in the book of *** that I talked about in the comments before this.

So although we have plenty of source for light, and plenty of the sun's light burning brightly, the thick clouds of the book of *** have cast the earth in "darkness"

The story advances, and we get the "Let there be light" and there is suddenly some light on the earth.
But notice it's not a lot of light.

Yes, if you look at the wordings here at this early part of Genesis all you can see as far as light goes is that there is a noticeable difference between "day" and "night" but not much else.

So we are able to tell the difference between "day"
But what does the word "day" mean?
The answer is: that you have a "day" when the part of the earth you are standing on, (or in this case the part of the earth the Spirit of God is hovering over) turns in the direction of the sun.
Same is true when the bible tells us that due to the thinning clouds we now can see when it is "night"
The reason we have something called a "night" is when the part of the earth we are standing on turns away from the sun.

So everything is in place to have normal days and nights, just like we have today!
We have an earth spinning in its rotation and orbit around the sun.

That is when we have days and nights, today as well as way back in the story of Genesis.

No need to invent weird "days" and weird 'nights" and weird reasons to have them before there was a sun.
The reason we see days and night in Genesis is the same reason we have them today.


In the book of *** we learned about the thick clouds that cast the earth seas in darkness at the time of Genesis, but we also know that in our age we dont see such clouds anymore.

What happened to the clouds?.....
the answer is that they thinned out and slowly allowed more and more of the sun's "Greater light" to be seen on the earth.
This is why the sun's light is talked about in a progressive way on the 4th day.

Notice that the things the greater amount of light show us on the 4th day.
Its a slowly clearing sky.....and finally even the dim light of the stars is able to be seen though the clearly sky.


and on that note, have you noticed that the story of Genesis does not say that the "sun" was made on the 4th day?
Do you know why it does not say that the "sun was made" on the 4th day?....it could not say that!

The sun was already made and burning brightly in the heavens from the beginning.
But on the 4th day that amount of light is talked about.


This is like what is going on right now on other of our sister worlds.
While the inner planets around our sun are not covered in a blanket of thick clouds anymore, we yet still see that on the outer words there still is a covering of thick clouds around worlds like Neptune ( see http://nineplanets.org/neptune.html )

The ground of that planet is likely cast in thick darkness as was the earth at one time too. (as talked about in Genesis)
And because the sun's solar wind has not yet stripped away the thick clouds you continue to have this darkness on the outer worlds.
But if you could slowly strip away the clouds around the planet Neptune what would you see?

The answer is: that at first you would be only able to tell the difference between day and night, as you started to be able to tell when the part you are standing on turned toward the sun and then turned away from the sun.
Later as more of the clouds thinned away you would be able to see the reflected light off of the many moons around Neptune, and also be able to tell when the tilt of the planet gave you different seasons, like winter and your summer.
You would be able to tell when a year on Neptune had happened.

the final thing you would be able to see and inform you that all the thick clouds have all thinned away would be that at night you would be able to see the stars.


Now, the day you are first able to make out the stars you might think that on that same day "god made the stars today"...but that would be wrong.
It might appear to you that the "stars are brand new", but thats not really the case.
the stars are billions of years old, but your being able to see them is brand new.

God has "set" them before you for the first time....

[tdidymas]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

although times have changed, let me tell you a little story that shows how the two lights were "set".

I grew up in a small town and before Christmas at the main store on main street they would hang a curtain in the main store front window and coverup what was being prepared to show .
Then on an evening before Christmas they would pull back the covering and people could see for the very first time the things that the store had for sale this year that were new and interesting.

Now, it is true that when they pulled back the covering the things that were sitting in the window were new to the people looking.

But its not like the things just suddenly appeared there in that moment the curtain was pulled aside.
But it was the first moment that people were allowed to see what was behind the curtain.


The two lights are a bit like that in the Genesis story.

The "source" of all the lights talked about in Genesis is introduced early on with the words "In the beginning God created the heavens..."
But we also had a world covered in darkness as we learned in the book of *** that I talked about in the comments before this.

So although we have plenty of source for light, and plenty of the sun's light burning brightly, the thick clouds of the book of *** have cast the earth in "darkness"

The story advances, and we get the "Let there be light" and there is suddenly some light on the earth.
But notice it's not a lot of light.

Yes, if you look at the wordings here at this early part of Genesis all you can see as far as light goes is that there is a noticeable difference between "day" and "night" but not much else.

So we are able to tell the difference between "day"
But what does the word "day" mean?
The answer is: that you have a "day" when the part of the earth you are standing on, (or in this case the part of the earth the Spirit of God is hovering over) turns in the direction of the sun.
Same is true when the bible tells us that due to the thinning clouds we now can see when it is "night"
The reason we have something called a "night" is when the part of the earth we are standing on turns away from the sun.

So everything is in place to have normal days and nights, just like we have today!
We have an earth spinning in its rotation and orbit around the sun.

That is when we have days and nights, today as well as way back in the story of Genesis.

No need to invent weird "days" and weird 'nights" and weird reasons to have them before there was a sun.
The reason we see days and night in Genesis is the same reason we have them today.


In the book of *** we learned about the thick clouds that cast the earth seas in darkness at the time of Genesis, but we also know that in our age we dont see such clouds anymore.

What happened to the clouds?.....
the answer is that they thinned out and slowly allowed more and more of the sun's "Greater light" to be seen on the earth.
This is why the sun's light is talked about in a progressive way on the 4th day.

Notice that the things the greater amount of light show us on the 4th day.
Its a slowly clearing sky.....and finally even the dim light of the stars is able to be seen though the clearly sky.


and on that note, have you noticed that the story of Genesis does not say that the "sun" was made on the 4th day?
Do you know why it does not say that the "sun was made" on the 4th day?....it could not say that!

The sun was already made and burning brightly in the heavens from the beginning.
But on the 4th day that amount of light is talked about.


This is like what is going on right now on other of our sister worlds.
While the inner planets around our sun are not covered in a blanket of thick clouds anymore, we yet still see that on the outer words there still is a covering of thick clouds around worlds like Neptune ( see http://nineplanets.org/neptune.html )

The ground of that planet is likely cast in thick darkness as was the earth at one time too. (as talked about in Genesis)
And because the sun's solar wind has not yet stripped away the thick clouds you continue to have this darkness on the outer worlds.
But if you could slowly strip away the clouds around the planet Neptune what would you see?

The answer is: that at first you would be only able to tell the difference between day and night, as you started to be able to tell when the part you are standing on turned toward the sun and then turned away from the sun.
Later as more of the clouds thinned away you would be able to see the reflected light off of the many moons around Neptune, and also be able to tell when the tilt of the planet gave you different seasons, like winter and your summer.
You would be able to tell when a year on Neptune had happened.

the final thing you would be able to see and inform you that all the thick clouds have all thinned away would be that at night you would be able to see the stars.


Now, the day you are first able to make out the stars you might think that on that same day "god made the stars today"...but that would be wrong.
It might appear to you that the "stars are brand new", but thats not really the case.
the stars are billions of years old, but your being able to see them is brand new.

God has "set" them before you for the first time....

Out of its context, this looks like a very convenient theory. However, let's look carefully at what some other of the context actually says:
v. 16 says the 2 great lights were "made", which is the same verb as is used in other days for beasts, plants, etc. This term is equivalent to "created" since: "created" was used in both v. 1 for the heavens and earth, and in v. 21 for all living things in the sea, and BOTH terms were used for man in v. 26-27. Many terms in the scripture are this way, different terms used interchangeably for the same meaning, in fact all languages do this.

Therefore the common-sense conclusion to this is that the "great lights" (i.e. sun and moon) were CREATED on the 4th day, this would be the literal interpretation.

Furthermore, your theory that the cloud receded "slowly" (i.e. like natural processes today, as you describe) would be wrong, since it happened in a single 24-hr period.
TD

[alanmolstad]

the light of the Sun is not the same thing as the Sun itself in the same way the sound of my truck is not the same thing as my truck my truck can be running and if I'm inside the house I can hear it but the moment I step outside I hear the sound of my truck its not appeared and it's not the truck suddenly started up its just at the moment I was able to first. That's the truth that I hurt its the same way with the Sun with printing for billions and billions of years it's just that when the clouds parted and Finn that we were able to see it

[alanmolstad]

I'm at work until I am NOT typing this I'm using my voice translator on my phone so there are some errors I will fix it when I have time hopefully you will be able to tell what I meant to say

[alanmolstad]

I'm going to have to wait before I respond the translator on my phone is not adequate you're not getting exactly what I meant to say

[alanmolstad]

I'm at work so I just don't have the time right now to respond and the way I am responding now I am speaking into my cell phone and it's trying to translate my words into printed text but it doesn't do a very adequate *** sometimes what I wanted to say is this that the sound of my car running is not the same thing as my car just as the light of the Sun is not the same thing as the Sun when its night time I don't actually see the light of the Sun but that does not mean there was no Sun the Sun is still burning as brightly as ever this just as much light hitting the earth as ever it's just because of rotation of the earth place where I am standing has turned away from the Sun is so I can not the sun's light that's all the text at the fourth day is saying to us the light of the Sun was not seen before and now it is this is why the text does not say that the Sun was created or made on the 4th day but it does say that the light did become seen on the fourth day it was mademore clear to the person who is standing on the earth and remember when you read the first part of the book of Genesis we are given the point of view of the person who is telling the story the person is the person of the Holy Spirit who is said to be hovering over the waters with your point of view that's why there is day and night unless you have someone who has a point of view on the earth there is no day and night day and night does not happen in outer space Dez night does not happen in orbit but Dan night does happen if you are on the ground or in this case hovering over the surface of the waters because there was no ground yet

[alanmolstad]

one of the errors that people make when they read the book of Genesis is it they take the point of view of someone watching the story unfold from the position of orbiting in space looking down at the whole earth sorta like astronauts this is wrong this is not the point of view of Genesis this is not the point of view of the writer of Genesis this is not the point of view of the person who is telling us the story of Genesis we are told the point of view of the writer of Genesis and that is the point of view of someone who is hovering over the surface of the waters that's why that verse is there it tells us to take that point of view the point of view of someone who is hovering just over the surface of the water that person will experience what we called day and night

[tdidymas]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

one of the errors that people make when they read the book of Genesis is it they take the point of view of someone watching the story unfold from the position of orbiting in space looking down at the whole earth sorta like astronauts this is wrong this is not the point of view of Genesis this is not the point of view of the writer of Genesis this is not the point of view of the person who is telling us the story of Genesis we are told the point of view of the writer of Genesis and that is the point of view of someone who is hovering over the surface of the waters that's why that verse is there it tells us to take that point of view the point of view of someone who is hovering just over the surface of the water that person will experience what we called day and night

Here is where our paths diverge. Your interpretation here is very weak and appears like a mere opinion compared to my previous explanation from the scriptures. I am very far from convinced.
TD

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by tdidymas

Here is where our paths diverge. Your interpretation here is very weak and appears like a mere opinion compared to my previous explanation from the scriptures. I am very far from convinced.
TD

could you narrow down for me what part of my post you were thinking of?

the stuff you quoted i wrote on my phone by talking into it however the phone does not break my spoken words up into sentences.

so my posts yesterday look like silly huge wads of text!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by tdidymas

Here is where our paths diverge. Your interpretation here is very weak and appears like a mere opinion compared to my previous explanation from the scriptures. I am very far from convinced.
TD

Lets go over the text in question , and allow me to show you what i think is being talked about and why...


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good,


The reality is that this is an Anthropomorphism (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism )
Where we find the Bible talking about God in terms that are describing human stuff.

This is like saying "The right hand of God" when because god is pure spirit he lacks hands and feet....

So when we read that God sees things, or learns things, or speaks as is said he does in Genesis, that we understand that this is just a way for us to understand some things God wants us to know about Himself, that otherwise we would never understand.

God does not see like people see, because he has no eyes.

God does not speak the way we speak for god has no lips.

God does not "hover" like a bird because God has no wings

But yet we do read that god sees, God speaks, and God hovers as this helps us understand something about what God wants us to know about Himself.




Thus.......


When in the beginning of the Genesis story we read that the Spirit of the Lord was "hovering" over the waters, this is for a very good reason.....
Because it tells us something important to the rest of our story.
For actually gives the reader a "point of view" ......


Why do we need a "point of view"?
The answer is : that it gives us a mental point of view to take and keep in mind as we read the rest of the story.


So what is the Genesis point of view that the Bible wants us to take?
The answer is : that we are to take the point of view of the Spirit of God who is said to be "hovering" over the water.


This is the Genesis point of view.
We are to read the story as someone who is hovering over the water.


This is very important, as it sets the tone for all the rest of the story.

Once we take the correct "hovering" point of view, then the very next part of the text makes complete sense.
For in the very next part of the Text we read that now the Lord starts to "speak" and "see" things.
But the point of view we are to take while reading about the God looking and speaking is one where the Lord is said to be "hovering" just over the water.

So when the Lord is said to "see" something happen in the sky in the genesis story, the mental point of view we are to read this with is not like we are looking down at the earth from the International Space Station, rather we are to have the Point of view of someone who is hovering over the water and looking UP at the sky!



The problem is that because of all the space photos of NASA we have slipped into the trap of thinking that the Genesis story should be understood from the point of view of God being like some sort of an astronaut......
But this is an error and it leads to a false idea as to what the Genesis store is saying.

The writer of the Genesis story had an earth-bound point of view in his mind when he wrote this genesis story.and so when we read it we should read it within the context of the way it was written.

The correct Point of view of a person hovering just a bit over the water can help you understand why the bible then talks about 'days".
The "days" of Genesis are only talked about after the idea of the "hovering" point of view is introduced.

Days are important to the story.

Question, what is a day?
The Answer is:, Days are the result of the earth where you are located spinning in its rotation toward and then away from the direct sun's light.

Days dont happen in deep space.

Days dont happen to someone who is floating high around above the earth in orbit.

But when you are hovering over over the water, and you have a real earth-bound 'location" then because of the rotation of the earth you will experience the rising and lowering of the sun....and thus experience what is commonly known to us as a "day"







tdidymas This is the best answer I got for you.
I spent a LONG time on this post....I re-worked on it over and over to get it to not only say what i wanted to say, but I also got it to look on your computer screen the way i wanted it to appear so as to be easy to read and understand.

In other words.....I hope you can take the time to give it a glance and with luck this will make any confusing and poorly written posts I made before more clear.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by tdidymas

Therefore the common-sense conclusion to this is that the "great lights" (i.e. sun and moon) were CREATED on the 4th day, this would be the literal interpretation.

TD

Here is a story that might help you understand how I think about one little Bible error i see lots of people make.



I was debating with a friend of mine who is a Jehovah's Witness.
We were talking about John1:1

The problem was that every time my friend would read the verse he would add 'a god' to the verse.

Even when I proved that it should read "GOD" he still would add "a god' whenever he was talking about it.

The "a god' addition happen so fast that i doubt he actually knew he was doing it.


The same thing happens to good Christian bible students when they read the Genesis story dealing with the 4th day....
The may read with their eyes, "greater light" but their minds automatically re-translate this into "the sun"

They may not even realize they are doing this form of adding to the word of God.
It happens so fast....
It's subconscious....


But I think that what they are actually doing is replacing what the Bible actually says, with something else that just agrees with what they would have wished the bible had said in the first place.


I simply put forward to you that you might try once to just read the text as it appears, and to not change things.....
Just read it as it appears , regardless of what they might do to other things you believe in...


Thus when you are reading about the "greater light' dont mentally write over the top of that "The Sun"
Just read whats there and don't force yourself to rewite anything!

So what are we supposed to do when we read about the "greater light"???????
The answer is : just leave it be what it is......its a "Greater LIGHT"!!!!!!!!!


a greater "LIGHT!"






No need to rush in and fix the bible.
No need to rewrite anything.
The Bible is talking about a "greater amount of light, and thats-that....no big deal.......

Lets think of it another way.
The "sound" on my old truck is "greater" than the lessor sound of my new car.
But is the sound of my truck the same as my truck?.....no!

Is the sound of my car the very same thing as the car itself?.....no!

I can have the truck around and there is no sound at all .
I can look at my truck running and be in a location where I cant hear it at all.
So the sound of something is not the same as the thing itslef.....


the "light" of a star is not the same thing as the star itself.
You can have a star in our sky that because of many things you cant see.
Even right now as i write this the stars are all shining down on me just as much as ever, yet because its noon I dont see any 'light" from the stars at all.....they are all still there...they have not changed a bit....
But many things cause a star's light to be visible or invisible....



In the story of Genesis we read about "Darkness" that covers the earth.
in the book of *** we learned the reason for the darkness was thick clouds that covered the seas.
So although the sun itself was unchanged and was burning just as much then as it does to this very day, yet due only to the thick Clouds talked abut in *** the earth was in darkness.....


But on the 4th day of Genesis we read about the thinning of these clouds to the point where even the dim light of the stars was now seen..




Thus we are reading on the 4th day of Genesis NOT about the creation of the sun, moon, and stars at all.
What we are in fact reading about on the 4th day is just what it says there.....the "light" is now greater.

the amount of light hitting the earth has changed.

this is a very big deal....

The sun has not changed.
The amount of heat and light flowing from the sun in unchanged.
But the amount of light seen on the surface of the earth has changed a lot.....

and that is what we read about on the 4th day!

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by tdidymas

v. 16 says the 2 great lights were "made", which is the same verb as is used in other days for beasts, plants, etc. .......

Yes!.....the lights were made!
(Thats what I have been trying to tell you all this time!)

Question:The what was made?....
Answer: The LIGHTS were made!....yes, yes, yes....!


The sun was made already, but due to the clouds the light was unable to reach our earthbound point of view ....this is what the earth was in "darkness"

But on the 4th day we read about the "light"...and the 'amount of light is talked about"...some "GREATER"...some LESSOR"....

Greater and lessor are AMOUNTS of light.....
They are the different amounts of new light that was not seen until on the 4th day.


The source for the light was already made at Genesis 1:1
But the "light" was unseen until the thick clouds talked about at *** 38 had thinned away.


So I would never tell you in a million-zillion years ( thats 6,000 years for you Young Earth people) that God did not make the "lights" of the 4th day.
Did the Lord make the lights on the 4th day? Sure He dd!

But let us also keep in mind that the Bible also clearly told us at Gen 1:1 that God had already made the Source for the light.

[alanmolstad]

So according to the srict reading of the text...the sun was NOT made on the 4th day
The moon was NOT made on the 4th day....and
The stars were NOT made on the 4th day.....



So all the struggling that the Young Earth teachers do to make that all happen on the 4th day is silly, and not needed in the slightest way.

The story works just fine as it appears, it does not need us to run around 'fixing' it with our additions.....

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

So according to the srict reading of the text...the sun was NOT made on the 4th day
The moon was NOT made on the 4th day....and
The stars were NOT made on the 4th day.....

So all the struggling that the Young Earth teachers do to make that all happen on the 4th day is silly, and not needed in the slightest way.

The story works just fine as it appears, it does not need us to run around 'fixing' it with our additions.....

All this proves is that Genesis is a compilation of creation stories common to the area ;and that each chapter has a compilation of events within it.

it's not scientific :get used to it..

[alanmolstad]

The Genesis story is religious.....it just happens to agree with the scientific...LOL


Genesis and science talk about the same time in earth's early history.
They speak to us from different points of view, but they talk about the same moments.
They say different things in different ways , but they are always walking in agreement.

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The Genesis story is religious.....it just happens to agree with the scientific...LOL


Genesis and science talk about the same time in earth's early history.
They speak to us from different points of view, but they talk about the same moments.
They say different things in different ways , but they are always walking in agreement.

To a point but the female of the specie was not carved out of man's rib. Where do you see that in science. ?

The " same moments?" six days is the same as 14 billion years?

Get real, I thought you were smart..

And yes, as a life long Christian ; God created the heavens and the Earth through totally natural processes.
Processess which include the EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS IN BIOLOGY.
you need to study more and read a lot more than you have been ..

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Christodoulos

To a point but the female of the specie was not carved out of man's rib. Where do you see that in science. ?

.

are you saying that no amount of science will ever in even the next billion years ever understand how you can take a few cells from a person, and manipulate them in such a manner as to produce independent life?

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

are you saying that no amount of science will ever in even the next billion years ever understand how you can take a few cells from a person, and manipulate them in such a manner as to produce independent life?

As an after thought? NO!

how was man made to reproduce . or was he?

If not ,then was he created with cojones or not? If so, for what purpose?

Did Eve come first and then the cojones?

Or were their two dissections.

You can't bluff your way through this.

Hey, I want to ask you .. how do I put someone on a IGNORE MESSAGING ?

Can you instruct.. there's this **** bugging me ..