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Thread: Why to NOT take Genesis literally.

  1. #101
    alanmolstad
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    it is the only time during the 8-week Ken Ham cl*** that i raised my hand and asked a question.

    The question I asked came right after ken was talking about the first thing he believes God created (light)...I raised my hand and asked "What was the first thing the bible lists that God created "in the beginning"?

    Later after the cl*** was over a bunch of members of my cl*** came up to me and we had a great conversation about what Ken was saying compared to what i have pointed out to the cl*** the Bible actually was saying...



    everyone saw quickly there was a difference...

  2. #102
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    it is the only time during the 8-week Ken Ham cl*** that i raised my hand and asked a question.

    The question I asked came right after ken was talking about the first thing he believes God created (light)...I raised my hand and asked "What was the first thing the bible lists that God created "in the beginning"?

    Later after the cl*** was over a bunch of members of my cl*** came up to me and we had a great conversation about what Ken was saying compared to what i have pointed out to the cl*** the Bible actually was saying...



    everyone saw quickly there was a difference...


    To this very day, it is on this same issue that I always first challenge people to put aside what the YEC have taught them that the bible says, and to open the bible for themselves and find out for themselves what the bible actually says.

    some people can actually read the bible for themselves.

    Some people dont need someone looking over their shoulder while they read God's word...

    But not every person.
    More times that I can count I have found people that simply will not allow themselves to read the bible alone.
    They are very much afraid of what they will find in the bible...

    I dont really know how to help such people.
    In a very real way, its like their hearts are trapped .

    I can only show them that the Bible will encourage them to draw closer to God though reading His word.
    I can only show them that God is putting His word into their hands for a reason...that reason is that though his word you learn about him.


    and perhaps a first step to the goal of being able to read the bible on your own would be to answer a few questions about what the text says?

    let me copy/paste my 3 questions again to see how you do answering them....

  3. #103
    alanmolstad
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    Question #1 - Does the bible literally say at genesis 1:1 that God made the heavens and the earth in the beginning?

  4. #104
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Oh hi, lost in the denials you know. Sure, Iíll be around from time to time to remind the reader out of courtesy of your selective response habits from post #71-onward.

    How did I do? Oh yeah, we are denying that. Personally, this stubborn madness is embarr***ing.

    Some mention of the truth though, that's all.

  5. #105
    alanmolstad
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    QUESTION #2 - Does the Bible literally say at Genesis 1:24, Genesis 2:19and Genesis 3:19 the source of all life, (including humans) is the earth itself ?

  6. #106
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Oh hi, lost in the denials you know. Sure, Iíll be around from time to time to remind the reader out of courtesy of your selective response habits critical to this thread from post #71-onward.

    How did I do? Oh yeah, we are denying that. Personally, this stubborn madness is embarr***ing.

    At least some mention of the truth though, that's all.

  7. #107
    alanmolstad
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    QUESTION #3 - Does the Bible literally say there is an ending to the first 6 days of the Genesis creation week yet not have any ending in the whole Bible for the 7th day?

  8. #108
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Oh hi, lost in the denials you know. Sure, Iíll be around from time to time to remind the reader out of courtesy of your selective response habits critical to this thread from post #71-onward. Personally, this stubborn madness is embarr***ing.

    How did I do? Oh yeah, we are denying that.

  9. #109
    alanmolstad
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    If you are brave enough to answer these 3 little questions by opening your Bible and seeking only truth?....then you are just like the Bereans talked about in ACTS 17:11 http://biblehub.com/acts/17-11.htm

    For you are doing just what we are instructed to do when we hear a teachings that is new to us.
    We are to open our Bibles and see for ourselves if what is being said is found in the Scriptures?

  10. #110
    alanmolstad
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    Just checking to see if anyone answer even one of the questions yet?....

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    If you are brave enough to answer these 3 little questions by opening your Bible and seeking only truth?....then you are just like the Bereans talked about in ACTS 17:11 http://biblehub.com/acts/17-11.htm

    For you are doing just what we are instructed to do when we hear a teachings that is new to us.
    We are to open our Bibles and see for ourselves if what is being said is found in the Scriptures?
    ďBraveĒ? Brave my foot. While it may be your prerogative to resist the scriptural treatment as I have pointed out, it is no excuse to foster damage to lead those astray who canít yet recognize the cl*** of people you lightheartedly refuse ***ociation with.

    As the Lord said:

    ďMy brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it." (Luke 8:21)

    "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." (Luke 11:28)

    To be blessed and considered His brother, what could be better? There are not enough explanations left in the world to subs***ute for an agreement in the word. How does it go for those who claim Christian status, you remember donít you?

    ďThey profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being, , , disobedientĒ (***us 1:16)


  12. #112
    alanmolstad
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    yes...."brave"...you know,the opposite of chicken...



    I am only asking questions.....
    How weak is your faith that 3 simple questions cause you such concern for your salvation...

    Seems to me that is someone like me can cause you such fear just with 3questions, that perhaps you might want to check how deep your religious faith actually is?>>>>

    Seems to me it starting to sound like its a house built of shifting sand or what?....




    Here is the truth, if your religion is so weak, with such small roots, that perhaps you might well be in the wrong religion.


    a Christian's faith is never supposed to be so easily upset that one lone guy asking 3 little questions can cause the whole house to fall...
    if that were the case, how could you possible hope to stand up against attacks that come from the world of the CULTS?




    now come on....the Bible gives us an example, that when it comes to such things as a Bible study "Iron sharpens Iron"
    That men are suppose to be able to stand up for their faith and in doing so make their faith more perfect.

    We are not to hide our faith under a bed and hope the bad Alan with his hard 3 questions gets tired and goes away......

  13. #113
    alanmolstad
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    Question #1 - Does the bible literally say at genesis 1:1 that God made the heavens and the earth in the beginning?

  14. #114
    alanmolstad
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    QUESTION #2 - Does the Bible literally say at Genesis 1:24, Genesis 2:19and Genesis 3:19 the source of all life, (including humans) is the earth itself ?

  15. #115
    alanmolstad
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    QUESTION #3 - Does the Bible literally say there is an ending to the first 6 days of the Genesis creation week yet not have any ending in the whole Bible for the 7th day?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Question #1 - Does the bible literally say at genesis 1:1 that God made the heavens and the earth in the beginning?
    No, what is literally says is: ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν

    or... first (chiefly, beginning, choicest part), elohim (translated gods, rulers, judges, angels) created (shaped or formed), the heavens (visible heavens, universe, or sky) and (not a Hebrew word, not a real translation) earth (land, ground).
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    QUESTION #3 - Does the Bible literally say there is an ending to the first 6 days of the Genesis creation week yet not have any ending in the whole Bible for the 7th day?
    Regarding the creation, Moses tells us "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," Genesis 2:4

    In Hebrew, the word for "day" can also be a period of time or a division or time.

    To look at the Hebrew translation, Moses is saying--according to what has been p***ed down through the generations.

    In this verse we also get clarity as to elohim--who created the heavens and earth.
    Last edited by BigJulie; 04-02-2016 at 08:23 PM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    QUESTION #2 - Does the Bible literally say at Genesis 1:24, Genesis 2:19and Genesis 3:19 the source of all life, (including humans) is the earth itself ?
    The name Adam in Hebrew, literally means dirt or ground. Everything on the earth is made up of dirt, minerals, etc. and spirit. Therefore, everything living thing on earth is made from the earth and alive by the spirit (or not of this earth, but divine).
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  19. #119
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    The name Adam in Hebrew, literally means dirt or ground. Everything on the earth is made up of dirt, minerals, etc. and spirit. Therefore, everything living thing on earth is made from the earth and alive by the spirit (or not of this earth, but divine).
    Thanks Julie...

    I'm also thankful to find I still got at least this Bible student to step forward and give her answer.

  20. #120
    alanmolstad
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    Its also nice to see people "stray off the reservation"...and pop down to a few of the other sections of the Walter Martin message forum.....

  21. #121
    alanmolstad
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    Now.....while a few brave souls are struggling with how to answer my 3 questions and not look like they agree with me...Im going to start to move on to another in the teachings that i have to share with you today.


    This next topic will be about the "waters" talked about in genesis.

    According to the teachings of science, the early Earth was first a dead , dry world....and that later though volcanic and hydro-thermal activity water, (or fog, or whatever) came froth from underground and gave the earth its cloud cover and later its water...


    but what story about the waters covering the earth does the Genesis account tell us?

    is it the same as the story told by science?

  22. #122
    alanmolstad
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    In the genesis account, is the earth created as a dead, dry world as taught by science?.....or was the earth created with seas already covering the land?

  23. #123
    alanmolstad
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    well.........what i think is that the story we are taught in Genesis, turns out to be the very same story told to us by modern science....


    Thats means that the Bible must teach that the earth was created by God as a dead, dry world too.....


    is that really what the Bible teaches us however?.....





    What do you read?

  24. #124
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Alan the 7 days of creation have already p***ed. God created all things and Macroevolution is demonic garbage and a Huge Lie. You shouldn't champion it because it's in direct opposition to Biblical Christianity.

  25. #125
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    yes...."brave"...you know,the opposite of chicken...

    I am only asking questions.....
    How weak is your faith that 3 simple questions cause you such concern for your salvation...

    Seems to me that is someone like me can cause you such fear just with 3questions, that perhaps you might want to check how deep your religious faith actually is?>>>>

    Seems to me it starting to sound like its a house built of shifting sand or what?....

    Here is the truth, if your religion is so weak, with such small roots, that perhaps you might well be in the wrong religion.

    a Christian's faith is never supposed to be so easily upset that one lone guy asking 3 little questions can cause the whole house to fall...
    if that were the case, how could you possible hope to stand up against attacks that come from the world of the CULTS?

    now come on....the Bible gives us an example, that when it comes to such things as a Bible study "Iron sharpens Iron"
    That men are suppose to be able to stand up for their faith and in doing so make their faith more perfect.

    We are not to hide our faith under a bed and hope the bad Alan with his hard 3 questions gets tired and goes away......
    Thank you.

    Because, it is out of order in the first place.

    But that order is only compounded if it is being refused.

    Why should I concern myself with your questions when you wonít rectify for yourself the specifics of handling Godís word?

    You want me to turn a blind eye to follow your insight and dive into the word irreverent of how God said to handle it? And I havenít even finished with telling of it.

    Why? Oh yes, thereís plenty more, but currently we donít seem to be interested in that. No order for you, just not interested?

    Well then Iím not interested in beating the air. What I am interested in at this point is defending the weak as responsible Christians should want to. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Christians being godly watchmen on the wall.

    But donít fret, we all likely realize the limitations of a forum and that they do have parameters of their own, , that being a decorum much less adamant must be remembered also. But donít expect selective refusal to run rogue indefinitely.

    Mike.

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