Calvin- Luther

[cheachea]

Originally Posted by Christodoulos

I'm just trolling the forum ,Remember..So why ask?

If you give a little bit of a background on what you believe then I will know what your objective and reason is for posting and making such threads.

[alanmolstad]

Luther was the only guy worth talking about....The Catholic church is not worth our time....


Even to this day the Catholic church is a joke.....the only thing it has managed to do well is hide pedophiles.

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Luther was the only guy worth talking about....The Catholic church is not worth our time....


Even to this day the Catholic church is a joke.....the only thing it has managed to do well is hide pedophiles.

It is a joke as you say until the day that it isn't .

But as we all know , the majority of Baptist ,Evangelical fundies look at Mormons , Snake handlers and poison drinkers ,
Scientologists , J.W.s and numerous others as severely heretical groups.
And while I would agree ,I can't help to wonder why the amazement? Once the scriptures are opened to all ,then all will read into them whatever they wish. And had it not been for Luther would we now be having to scratch our heads over Mormonism or scientology or J.W.s or pentacostal hostiles?

Becareful who you praise just as you should be careful what you pray for ;you just might get it!

[alanmolstad]

I think Luther basically saved the Christian church.
what we need now is for another theologian within the catholic church to rise up and lead the church away from the pedophiles and their helpers who now clearly run the Catholic church, and set up a new denomination a catholic believers that does not put up with all the sex stuff they got now.

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I think Luther basically saved the Christian church.
what we need now is for another theologian within the catholic church to rise up and lead the church away from the pedophiles and their helpers who now clearly run the Catholic church, and set up a new denomination a catholic believers that does not put up with all the sex stuff they got now.

the prots are no more immune to the same depravity hitting the r.c.s or than anyone else. it's the height of hubris to think so.

[alanmolstad]

The excuse "But the other guy is just as bad" is the cl***ic human way to respond to being caught red-handed..........it goes all the way back to Adam and Eve.......



If a person needs to defend his religion by saying that the "other religions are just as bad'....really whats they are telling us that there is "no difference" and thus "no merit" in their own religion....and "no point" in thinking they are interested at all in truth.

[tdidymas]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I think Luther basically saved the Christian church.
what we need now is for another theologian within the catholic church to rise up and lead the church away from the pedophiles and their helpers who now clearly run the Catholic church, and set up a new denomination a catholic believers that does not put up with all the sex stuff they got now.

Some have already tried to do this. The last straw for them was Vatican I with their new dogmas about Mariology, transubstatiation, and others. They broke off and formed their own denomination called "The Old Catholic Church."
TD

[alanmolstad]

I have heard that there is a growing movement at this time within the catholic Bishops to simply go against the current leadership and demand a sweeping house cleaning to remove not only the people hurting chidren, but also kick out all of the people that closed their eyes, or actually worked to keep the secrets....

the name of Hans Küng http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-abuse-penance has come up in a few places as perhaps someone like Luther that might kickstart the movement to help cut the head off the snake.


My main point in this is that there really is only one thing the catholic church has been shown to be good at in the last few generations, and that is protecting the secret that their own Priests are the source of the most disgusting of sins known to mankind.

from the top of the church to the bottom, we have seen nothing but proof that the Catholic church is very good at allowing their priests to use children sexually, and then working hard for years upon years so that even if the Priest is reported no justice it the result.
Even to this very hour we still see people inside the Catholic church working to put the best face on the known sin going on inside the church.

When the topic comes up how many times have i heard the defenders of priests who molest children turn around and rather than admitting there is a serious problem that is systemic to the churche's leadership, instead try to point to the sins of others in an effort to minimize the "looks" of their own sins...

(In other words, rather than working to bring an end to Catholic priests molesting children, the misguided supporters of such Catholic priests will only work hard to be part of the cover-up, or to point to Jim Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart)

[Christodoulos]

"He that is without sin ,let him cast the first stone"

yes ,it's true Catholic clergy are doing some bad stuff . But you have well over a 100 thous priests in the usa ,all supposedly celibate . But as a percentage ,the numbers of pedophiles or abusers are not greater than what you find in other demographics.
The same percentage of degenerates exist in all prot. denominations when combined together from all denominations.

The same percentage exists in all professions ,such as: teachers or psychiatrists or doctors and so on..

Considering the pressures cath. priests deal with ,their numbers may not be out of line at all.

If we started condemning each other over human weaknesses when would it stop?

At least with the Cath. they support schools ,hospitals and many charities . What does your local Baptist denomination do with the cash they squeeze out of the local yokels?

look at all the fools that supported jimmy swaggart and hundreds like him . I'm sure he appreciates all the support you gave him.

[alanmolstad]

like I said.....pointing to others goes all the way back to the garden....

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

like I said.....pointing to others goes all the way back to the garden....

well then you've said nothing!

Do you really think it takes a theologian to deal with pedophilia ?

C'mon ,I thought you had brains.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

like I said.....pointing to others goes all the way back to the garden....

.......and it pops up here too...from time to time.

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

.......and it pops up here too...from time to time.

nothing new there... the problem everyone faces is not being able to understand the nature of the church.

The truth is we don't have a church;there is none .

What we have are many thousands of different and competing denominations.

This problem goes back to the origins of the church. And do you know who created the above ground , visible, bricks and mortar church ?
Let me know what your answer is..

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Christodoulos

And do you know who created the above ground , visible, bricks and mortar church ?
Let me know what your answer is..

2nd Samuel 7:2

[alanmolstad]

once again ....no one posts when I have free time...

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

once again ....no one posts when I have free time...

Do you often speak in riddles?

[cheachea]

Christodoulos are you Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox ?

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

2nd Samuel 7:2

Irrelevant..pure deflection... answer the question ,now!

[alanmolstad]

2nd Samuel 7:2

[cheachea]

I guess I'm on Christodoulos' ignore list.

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

2nd Samuel 7:2

So,why don't you tell me in your own words what I'm supposed to know..go ahead ,be my guest. I mean ,can't you put two sentences together or two thoughts.? give me a break.

[cheachea]

You give Christodoulos the answer but he just doesn't listen. It's sad really. The same thing happened in his Exodus thread.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by cheachea

You give Christodoulos the answer but he just doesn't listen. It's sad really. The same thing happened in his Exodus thread.

I see......its to be expected then I guess....

[disciple]

Originally Posted by Christodoulos

nothing new there... the problem everyone faces is not being able to understand the nature of the church.

The truth is we don't have a church;there is none .

What we have are many thousands of different and competing denominations.

This problem goes back to the origins of the church. And do you know who created the above ground , visible, bricks and mortar church ?
Let me know what your answer is..

"The New Testament speaks of a large church in Jerusalem meeting together in a public space (e.g., the outer court of the temple in Acts 2:46) and in smaller groups in houses (e.g., the house of Mary, mother of Mark, in Acts 12:12). This practice must have been carried on in many cities of the Roman empire. For the most part, the church was dependent on members or supporters (patrons) who owned larger houses, providing a place for meeting. In Rome, there are indications that early Christians met in other public spaces such as warehouses or apartment buildings. Before Emperor Constantine recognized Christianity as a legal religion in 313, corporate ownership of property by the church could be legally ambiguous. Unless claims for recent discoveries of early Christian meeting places are confirmed, the earliest building certainly devoted to Christian use is at Dura Europos on the Euphrates River in eastern Roman Syria. It was a house that came into Christian possession and was remodeled in the 240s. Two rooms were combined to form the ***embly room, and another room became a baptistery—the only room decorated with pictures. Dura was destroyed by the S***anian Persians in 256, so the house's use as a church was short-lived.
The church's house at Dura represents an intermediate stage between meeting in members' houses or other suitable places, and constructing buildings specifically for church meetings. There are literary references to separate church buildings from the end of the second century and through the third century, but it is uncertain whether these were existing structures remodeled for church use, like the house at Dura, or new constructions. We have archaeological evidence of halls being built for church meetings at the end of the third and beginning of the fourth century. The great era of church buildings began with Constantine's patronage of the church in the fourth century. He commissioned basilicas to signal his support of the new religion and to advertise his reign."
Copied from Christian History written by Everett Ferguson

[Christodoulos]

Originally Posted by disciple

"The New Testament speaks of a large church in Jerusalem meeting together in a public space (e.g., the outer court of the temple in Acts 2:46) and in smaller groups in houses (e.g., the house of Mary, mother of Mark, in Acts 12:12). This practice must have been carried on in many cities of the Roman empire. For the most part, the church was dependent on members or supporters (patrons) who owned larger houses, providing a place for meeting. In Rome, there are indications that early Christians met in other public spaces such as warehouses or apartment buildings. Before Emperor Constantine recognized Christianity as a legal religion in 313, corporate ownership of property by the church could be legally ambiguous. Unless claims for recent discoveries of early Christian meeting places are confirmed, the earliest building certainly devoted to Christian use is at Dura Europos on the Euphrates River in eastern Roman Syria. It was a house that came into Christian possession and was remodeled in the 240s. Two rooms were combined to form the ***embly room, and another room became a baptistery—the only room decorated with pictures. Dura was destroyed by the S***anian Persians in 256, so the house's use as a church was short-lived.
The church's house at Dura represents an intermediate stage between meeting in members' houses or other suitable places, and constructing buildings specifically for church meetings. There are literary references to separate church buildings from the end of the second century and through the third century, but it is uncertain whether these were existing structures remodeled for church use, like the house at Dura, or new constructions. We have archaeological evidence of halls being built for church meetings at the end of the third and beginning of the fourth century. The great era of church buildings began with Constantine's patronage of the church in the fourth century. He commissioned basilicas to signal his support of the new religion and to advertise his reign."
Copied from Christian History written by Everett Ferguson

Yeah, the visible church was the work of Constantine. .. And have we strayed from his edicts?