Let's discuss it

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. The rest is the result of being saved. You get saved first and then being in a right relationship with God repentance and water baptism and the remission of sins comes after.

Hi Saxon.

So--one gets saved before repentance or the remission of sins? This is the direction the faith alone take--a denial of anything one does to obey God--or even God's grace, as being necessary for salvation--to promote the theology of faith alone.

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[Saxon]

Hi Saxon.

So--one gets saved before repentance or the remission of sins? This is the direction the faith alone take--a denial of anything one does to obey God--or even God's grace, as being necessary for salvation--to promote the theology of faith alone.

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

What is it that saves you? Not grace, not faith, not repentance, not remission of sins, not baptism, not communion. The only saving is done by God because he has an at***ude of grace towards man. All a person does is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, in faith and because God wants to save us, him and nothing else, saves us.

Everyone that is saved has obeyed God by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the work of God that all must obey. (See John 6:29)

One has to be saved before one can be justified. Being justified in the sight of man is shown by good works. Being saved and justified in the sight of God is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Salvation is not of works. What part of “not of works” do you not understand?????

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

What is it that saves you? Not grace, not faith, not repentance, not remission of sins, not baptism, not communion. The only saving is done by God because he has an at***ude of grace towards man. All a person does is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, in faith and because God wants to save us, him and nothing else, saves us.

Everyone that is saved has obeyed God by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the work of God that all must obey. (See John 6:29)

Hi Saxon.

I suppose the testimony of the Savior counts for something?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[Saxon]

It is not his testimony that is worthless but your out of biblical context is what counts for nothing.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Saxon.

I suppose the testimony of the Savior counts for something?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Originally Posted by Saxon

It is not his testimony that is worthless but your out of biblical context is what counts for nothing.

What do you find as "out of context" about the testimony of the Savior?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Saxon--just a note here. Your "out of context" claim is just the common --taint so!--response of the faith alone when they get thumped by the Biblical testimony that defies their theology.

Your accusation is nothing less than another baseless, blanket, straw man argument--that is not backed by anything but a taint so! denial.

Taint so! arguments are neither convincing nor compelling, IMO.

[Saxon]

It is you that is out of context . Matthew 19:17-19 is still under the law, not grace.

[Saxon]

If you do not present it as the author intended you are using it out of context.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

It is you that is out of context . Matthew 19:17-19 is still under the law, not grace.

Not true--no one will ever enter into eternal life without God's grace--not then--not ever:

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

If you do not present it as the author intended you are using it out of context.

Another empty statement. Again--what do you find as "out of context" about the Savior's testimony?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[Saxon]

It is you that is out of context . Matthew 19:17-19 is still under the law, not grace.

[Saxon]

That is true, but the way you teach it contrary to the way the Bible teaches it, no one that listens to you will ever enter into eternal life, not ever

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

It is you that is out of context . Matthew 19:17-19 is still under the law, not grace.

Could you explain for us when, or how--- anyone could enter into eternal life without God's grace?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

That is true, but the way you teach it contrary to the way the Bible teaches it, no one that listens to you will ever enter into eternal life, not ever

Another straw man, taint so!! response. How does that annul what the Savior testified to?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[Saxon]

Your statement is not in biblical context so it is wrong. Do you know what it is to be in or out of context???

[Saxon]

You can't.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon View Post That is true, but the way you teach it contrary to the way the Bible teaches it, no one that listens to you will ever enter into eternal life, not ever

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Another straw man, taint so!! response. How does that annul what the Savior testified to?

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Originally Posted by Saxon

Your statement is not in biblical context so it is wrong. Do you know what it is to be in or out of context???

Another straw man argument. What do you find in the Matthew scriptures above as "not in biblical context"? "Out of context"?

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[Saxon]

Another question that you can't answer.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon View PostYour statement is not in biblical context so it is wrong. Do you know what it is to be in or out of context???

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Another straw man argument. What do you find in the Matthew scriptures above as "not in biblical context"? "Out of context"?

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Originally Posted by Saxon

Another question that you can't answer.

Hi Saxon.

There is no answer for taint so!!! responses. I have asked you to explain what you believe is out of context about the scriptures I have posted--and usually receive another straw man, taint so!! response.

The fact is--the faith alone just can't answer to the Biblical testimony.

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[Saxon]

I have answered all you questions. The problem is that you do not agree with me. Asking the same thing over and over again is not going to change my answer. I also have been asking the same question of you over and over again, but you do not answer it. What part of "not of works", do you not understand??


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Saxon

I have answered all you questions. The problem is that you do not agree with me. Asking the same thing over and over again is not going to change my answer. I also have been asking the same question of you over and over again, but you do not answer it. What part of "not of works", do you not understand??

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Hi Saxon.

No one is claiming it is of works. IMO--that is what the faith alone need to face--the Biblical scriptures state salvation is by God's grace--which God gives to them that obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

You still have not explained what you believe is "out of context" about the scriptures that have been posted:

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

If those scriptures are true--then faith alone theology is false.

[Saxon]

Does God hand out grace on a platter? Tell me what you believe grace is when stated as "the grace of God".

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Hi Saxon.

No one is claiming it is of works. IMO--that is what the faith alone need to face--the Biblical scriptures state salvation is by God's grace--which God gives to them that obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

You still have not explained what you believe is "out of context" about the scriptures that have been posted:

Matthew 19:17-19--King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

If those scriptures are true--then faith alone theology is false.

Originally Posted by Saxon

Does God hand out grace on a platter?

That seems to be more of the faith alone theology, IE--salvation by grace through a faith without works.

The Biblical record testifies that only those who obey the gospel inherit God's grace unto eternal life:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Tell me what you believe grace is when stated as "the grace of God".

I believe the remission of one's sins is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I believe God's salvational grace is God doing something for us we can't do for ourselves--that allows us to enter into His presence after death. The scriptures testify it's those who obey God that receive of that grace:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

[Saxon]

See "The Apostasy" #84. I don't feel like repeating myself.

Why do you not answer questions? What do you believe grace is when stated as "the grace of God"?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That seems to be more of the faith alone theology, IE--salvation by grace through a faith without works.

The Biblical record testifies that only those who obey the gospel inherit God's grace unto eternal life:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

I believe the remission of one's sins is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I believe God's salvational grace is God doing something for us we can't do for ourselves--that allows us to enter into His presence after death. The scriptures testify it's those who obey God that receive of that grace:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Originally Posted by Saxon

See "The Apostasy" #84. I don't feel like repeating myself.

Why do you not answer questions? What do you believe grace is when stated as "the grace of God"?

Hi Saxon.

Did you miss my above post?

I believe the remission of one's sins is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is an example of God's salvational grace:

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I believe God's salvational grace is God doing something for us we can't do for ourselves--that allows us to enter into His presence after death. The scriptures testify it's those who obey God that receive of that grace:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;[/QUOTE]

[Saxon]

Hi Saxon.

Did you miss my above post?

No, I just wasn't going to repeat what I had just posted at "The Apostasy" post #84.

I believe the remission of one's sins is an example of God's salvational grace:

You should really explain what you believe grace to be because “salvational” grace mean nothing to me. I can put salvational (if there is such a term) and grace together and come up with something but the chances are it isn’t going to be what you intend it to be.

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is an example of God's salvational grace:

Explain “salvational” grace.

Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

I believe God's salvational grace is God doing something for us we can't do for ourselves--that allows us to enter into His presence after death. The scriptures testify it's those who obey God that receive of that grace:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Salvational grace is not a Bible term. You need to explain it and where it comes from.