Give me an example of what it is that you consider obeying him.
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew 25:32-46King James Version (KJV)
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
1 John 1:7---King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 Timothy 4:16King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
2 John 1:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
These verses speak of the saved. The saved obey him. I want to know what the unsaved do in obedience to him in order to get saved.
So--you believe one is saved prior to the remission of sins?
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So--you believe one is saved prior to the remission of sins?
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
No, I believe that salvation and the remission of sins is a concurrent event. It happens at the same time. Salvation does not happen at water baptism. Water baptism is for the saved. When Philip was asked by the eunuch, “What doth hinder me to be baptized”? Philip said, “If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.” Remember what Paul and Silas told the jailor when he asked, “What must I do to be saved?” they answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved”. All that is required of you from God to be saved is that you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then God, by his grace, saves you. Believing is the work that makes faith in Christ a live faith.
In Acts 2:38 Peter is saying that you should be baptized because of or for the remission of sins. Peter is not saying be baptized to get your sins remitted but because your sins have been remitted get baptized.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
So--you believe one is saved prior to the remission of sins?
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Originally Posted by Saxon
No, I believe that salvation and the remission of sins is a concurrent event. It happens at the same time. Salvation does not happen at water baptism. Water baptism is for the saved.
Saxon--if repentance and water baptism was for the remission of sins--then you can't take the approach that salvation and the remission of sins happen at the same time, and believe those who were water baptized were already saved.
I agree with you, dberrie. The Bible verses on the subject seem fairly clear to me: If you want to be saved, there are steps you must take first, starting with having faith, and then repenting of sins, and then being baptized, which results in the remission of the sins you had committed, and then you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and then you keep taking additional steps on the path that eventually leads to eternal life if you stay on the path.
I agree with you, dberrie. The Bible verses on the subject seem fairly clear to me: If you want to be saved, there are steps you must take first, starting with having faith, and then repenting of sins, and then being baptized, which results in the remission of the sins you had committed, and then you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and then you keep taking additional steps on the path that eventually leads to eternal life if you stay on the path.
Hi Phoenix.
The faith alone theology is very confusing, IMO. It's a contradiction of terms and reason--and the greatest lie satan ever pawned upon mankind. Anyone who attempts to defend faith alone theology, by using the Biblical text, will pit themselves against Christ and the NT writers.
Matthew 15:8-9---King James Version (KJV)
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
No, I believe that salvation and the remission of sins is a concurrent event. It happens at the same time. Salvation does not happen at water baptism. Water baptism is for the saved. .....
This is correct.
see the :05 seconds point of the video to learn what I believe
Salvation comes with a change of heart.....its not the things that you do, its the change inside you that is all important.
That is why the Bible tells us that the only way to find salvation is to confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and BELIEVE in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead.
In other words, faith in the Jesus of the Bible,,,(not the Jesus of Mormonism is what saves)
I would warn Christians here that some of these Mormons are most likely using more than one posting names - and one here is banned for an extended period for doing so on CARM. Don't believe for one second that Mormons share the same ethical standards as Christians.
Oath formerly taken by Mormons promising not to reveal secret Mormon temple rituals: "Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."
I would warn Christians here that some of these Mormons are most likely using more than one posting names - and one here is banned for an extended period for doing so on CARM. Don't believe for one second that Mormons share the same ethical standards as Christians.
It would seem that it is not only Mormons that get themselves BANNED from here from time to time.....or so I notice from time to time.
Don't they also pit themselves against some of the Antenicene Fathers?
I believe the Early Church Fathers were united in the belief water baptism was connected to regeneration(born again). But then--we find that even late:
"Moreover, that it is most solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved..."
SOURCE: The Large Catechism (XIII) - Martin Luther
I believe the Early Church Fathers were united in the belief water baptism was connected to regeneration(born again). But then--we find that even late:
"Moreover, that it is most solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved..."
SOURCE: The Large Catechism (XIII) - Martin Luther
So the question that comes to mind is: What changed between Luther's time and the present, that has caused so much of Christianity to "fall away" or distance itself from this belief and teaching of Luther?
Is it a case of "Christians back then were wrong, but now they are right" or is it a case of "Christians back then had it right, but now they have it wrong" ?
So the question that comes to mind is: What changed between Luther's time and the present, that has caused so much of Christianity to "fall away" or distance itself from this belief and teaching of Luther?
Is it a case of "Christians back then were wrong, but now they are right" or is it a case of "Christians back then had it right, but now they have it wrong" ?
Here are my thoughts on that: The need for a Reformation indicates there was an apostasy. And since the Reformation did not reform anything--it could more likely be referred to as an attempt to restore what they believed had been lost.
There is a prophecy in the Biblical text that a res***ution would take place:
Acts 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of res***ution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
But, that is a heavenly event. If something is lost, as in an apostasy--then there must be a heavenly event that restores it. That means heavenly messengers must be present to do so.
The Reformers saw that something was missing--and attempted to restore it--but could not--as it takes the powers of heaven to do so--and they instead just formed a whole new set of denominations with a whole new theology--which resulted in a theology without heavenly intervention--or, a false or incomplete gospel.
It has since changed dramatically--even in salvational doctrine. But the main ingredient that is missing--is it's authority. That must come from heaven--and I don't see any heavenly beings appearing to anyone in the Reformation, or a claim of such an event.
The LDS church fits the mold of a true restoration:
Doctrine and Covenants 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
Last edited by dberrie2000; 02-15-2015 at 05:48 AM.
Saxon--if repentance and water baptism was for the remission of sins--then you can't take the approach that salvation and the remission of sins happen at the same time, and believe those who were water baptized were already saved.
That dog just ain't gonna hunt.
You have thrown away the rest of the Bible that says that you are saved by grace and not of works (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9) so you can miss-construe Acts 2:38 and come up with the idea that Peter is saying that you have to be baptizes in order to have your sins remitted. What Peter is doing is giving and order of events.
First, repent. Repentance requires faith. It is through man’s faith that the grace of God saves. Repenting is exercising faith in Christ and God saves those that place their faith in Christ. Having repented and God, by his grace, saved you the next thing that you, the saved person, should do is be baptized in water because of or for the reason of the remission of sins.
The Gift of the Holy Ghost is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but the baptism (the coming upon) of the Holy Spirit. (See Acts 1:8) This is the promise of the Father. (See Acts 1:4) You need to read more than one verse before you can say that a person needs to be baptized in water in order to be saved.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Saxon--if repentance and water baptism was for the remission of sins--then you can't take the approach that salvation and the remission of sins happen at the same time, and believe those who were water baptized were already saved.
That dog just ain't gonna hunt.
Originally Posted by Saxon
You have thrown away the rest of the Bible that says that you are saved by grace and not of works (See Ephesians 2:8 and 9) so you can miss-construe Acts 2:38 and come up with the idea that Peter is saying that you have to be baptizes in order to have your sins remitted. What Peter is doing is giving and order of events.
So--Acts2:38 is an example of one being saved by works?
It's an example of God giving His salvational grace to them that obey Him, IMO.
First, repent. Repentance requires faith. It is through man’s faith that the grace of God saves. Repenting is exercising faith in Christ and God saves those that place their faith in Christ. Having repented and God, by his grace, saved you the next thing that you, the saved person, should do is be baptized in water because of or for the reason of the remission of sins.
This seems to be the typical man-made doctrine that circumvents what the Biblical text really preaches--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins:
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I understand your need to alter the scriptures in order that you may protect your theology--but that is called boundary maintenance.
The truth is--if what the Biblical record bears testimony to is true--then faith alone theology is false. But then--there is but one mention of "faith alone" found in the Bible:
James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
The Gift of the Holy Ghost is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but the baptism (the coming upon) of the Holy Spirit. (See Acts 1:8) This is the promise of the Father. (See Acts 1:4) You need to read more than one verse before you can say that a person needs to be baptized in water in order to be saved.
Acts 5:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
I agree with you, dberrie. The Bible verses on the subject seem fairly clear to me: If you want to be saved, there are steps you must take first, starting with having faith, and then repenting of sins, and then being baptized, which results in the remission of the sins you had committed, and then you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and then you keep taking additional steps on the path that eventually leads to eternal life if you stay on the path.
So it is up to YOU (while you are spiritually DEAD of course) to DO STUFF to get the free gift of eternal life, huh?
Your positionis self-contradictory. You cannot honestly repent unless you BELIEVE you should. You cannot 'decide' to 'have faith' either; faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not by what YOU DO.
It is NOT my own 'staying on the path' that saves me. It is JESUS CHRIST WHO saves me. HE does it, I don't.
Sorry phoenix but you and dberry are both on the wrong path. God doesn't need YOUR help to save you.
So it is up to YOU (while you are spiritually DEAD of course) to DO STUFF to get the free gift of eternal life, huh?
Your positionis self-contradictory. You cannot honestly repent unless you BELIEVE you should. You cannot 'decide' to 'have faith' either; faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not by what YOU DO.
It is NOT my own 'staying on the path' that saves me. It is JESUS CHRIST WHO saves me. HE does it, I don't.
The LDS would agree--it is Christ's grace that saves one.
That leaves but one question, IMO--who does Christ extend this salvational grace to?
If the scriptures are true--then it goes to them that obey God:
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And is withheld from those who do not obey God:
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
So--Acts2:38 is an example of one being saved by works?
It's an example of God giving His salvational grace to them that obey Him, IMO.
Do you ask this question, “So--Acts2:38 is an example of one being saved by works?” to display your desire to annoy or are you unable to comprehend the simplest statement? Read Ephesians 2:8 and 9 again and then explain to me how you can ask me this question when verse 9 is saying that it is NOT of works? You are not interested in the truth because you are convinced that Joseph Smith is correct in spite of that he totally ignores the Bible when it comes to the subject of salvation and many others.
Ephesians 2:9 says not of works. Romans 4:4 says to him that works the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Romans 11:6 says if by grace, then is it no more of works. You can’t have it both ways. If God saves by grace, and he does, (See Ephesians 2:8) there cannot be any works with it because grace is by itself. (See Romans 4:4 and Romans 11:6) If you are going to blatantly ignore the Bible, why do you even pretend that you hold it as one of your books?
If God, by your understanding, gives grace to those that obey him as a form of a work for salvation it will never happen. Again, the ones that are obedient are the ones that have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Read from Luke 8:12 below to the end and see that all you need to do is believe and you will be saved. No works needed.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is p***ed from death unto life.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
This seems to be the typical man-made doctrine that circumvents what the Biblical text really preaches--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins:
Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I understand your need to alter the scriptures in order that you may protect your theology--but that is called boundary maintenance.
The truth is--if what the Biblical record bears testimony to is true--then faith alone theology is false. But then--there is but one mention of "faith alone" found in the Bible:
James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
The Mormon teaching is what circumvents what the Biblical text really preaches, believe and be saved. You and the Mormon Church are altering scripture in order that you may protect your theology. There is no biblical connection to Mormon theology. You’re not reading scripture in a biblical context or as if it is true. You rely on warped teachings of the Mormon Church.
What part of “not of works” do you not understand???
[QUOTE=dberrie2000;161562]The LDS would agree--it is Christ's grace that saves one.
That leaves but one question, IMO--who does Christ extend this salvational grace to?
That is easy. . .
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
NKJV
WE are not the ones who chose, GOD did it. WE are not the ones who 'decided' to DO stuff; GOD led us to do what we did.
NOT to 'get saved,' but BECAUSE GOD GAVE US THE FAITH THAT SAVED US, and because of that faith, we are water baptized and obey what Christ wants us to do.
You mormons are confused. You seem to think you must 'help your god' save you.
Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
NKJV
WE are not the ones who chose, GOD did it.
What is your evidence that God does not choose according to His foreknowledge of who will obey Him?
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
WE are not the ones who 'decided' to DO stuff; GOD led us to do what we did.
Of course we are the ones who decide--that is what all will be judged in accordance with--our choices. Christ testified that all will be judged in accordance with works--AFTER DEATH--and that for life or ****ation:
John 5:28-29King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.
Matthew 16:27King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
God died for all men that they might have life:
Romans 5:18King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
NOT to 'get saved,' but BECAUSE GOD GAVE US THE FAITH THAT SAVED US,
Hi Christian::
Christ testified we are judged in accordance with what we do with the gifts we are given:
Matthew 25:14-30---King James Version (KJV)
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
A couple of points here, Christian:
1) Please notice they were "his own servants" to begin with--and later, because of their failure to magnify their gifts--were cast into outer darkness. Where does that leave once-saved-always-saved?
2) The Lord called those who magnified their gifts--"faithful" servants--connecting faith and works:
James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
and because of that faith, we are water baptized and obey what Christ wants us to do.
You mormons are confused. You seem to think you must 'help your god' save you.[/COLOR]
Is this an example of those who "help your god save you"?
1 Timothy 4:16----King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Last edited by dberrie2000; 11-15-2016 at 01:56 PM.
Salvation
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Originally Posted by Saxon
