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Thread: Because or for?

  1. #26
    alanmolstad
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    listen....I have never said even once "Faith alone"

    I have posted many times the video where you can hear from Walter martin tell you what the Bible teaches..

    Why are you still confused?


    Noting I have posted has said "Faith alone.
    I have never once posted the words "Faith alone"

    I dont believe such a thing,


    I have posted many times a video that shows Walter Martin teaching clearly what the Bible is telling us on the topic.

    I have quoted Walter many times, and you can check to make sure I have quoted him correctly as I have also pointed to the very spot on the recording that I'm quoting.

    Walter Martin says we are not saved by Faith alone...nor works, nor any combination of the two.


    You have the videos , you have seen and heard Walter talking at length on the topic.
    I have quoted him over and over...

    So lets try to document from now on any opinions as to Walter being a co-called "faith alone" teacher.
    I dont think it is fair to intentionally misrepresent the teachings of Walter.

    I shall post once again the recording of Walter answering the question about how we are saved.
    If within the recording you find support for your views?..then quote the part that does.
    But if at long last you start to see that what Walter is saying is actually the same thing I have been saying all along?..

    Then I would expect this to end this matter here and now.

    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-01-2015 at 10:17 AM.

  2. #27
    alanmolstad
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    There is this other recording of Walter addressing this very say issue.
    This recording is very old, it goes back to when Walter was still making a name for himself in the ministry outreach to the CULTS.

    I will even show you where to drag the computer mouse too so you can hear word for word what im going to be quoting , so you can make sure Im being honest and faithful to Walter's words.

    Now look at 1:28:00
    Its very near the ending of this video.

    Notice that the JW that Walter is debating asks if we are saved By "Faith and works?"
    Walter says "NO!"

    Then notice the JW says "You are saved by Faith?...Just plain old faith?. Just say you believe?
    Walter answers "NO! You are saved by Grace!"





    ....its getting to the point where Im going to move on to other topics.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-01-2015 at 10:22 AM.

  3. #28
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    listen....I have never said even once "Faith alone"
    How does your never mention of "faith alone" somehow negate the fact the faith alone preach just that--faith alone? In case one is wondering--that is a theology that preaches one is saved through a faith without works. Walter Martin was one of those that preached the faith alone messege--one is saved through God's grace--independent of acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

    IOW--a salvation by grace through a faith without works. That is faith alone theology--here is the Biblical response to the faith alone message:

    James 2:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

  4. #29
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View PostThey seem to literally not see this......
    They read the statement above,and their minds replace the words so it reads "Faith alone saves"
    Then they turn around and demand of me, "Where does it say man is saved by faith alone as you believe?"
    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostAnswer: No where in the Biblical text:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    So why do the faith alone preach a gospel of salvation through a faith without works?
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    are you on drugs?

    some type of medication?

    Im not judgmental here, but it would explain where you keep getting "Faith alone" out of my posts...
    I highlighted the terms in red--found in your post. Please reread my answer.

  5. #30
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Walter Martin was one of those that preached the faith alone messege--
    I posted the video....tell me where he says we are saved by "faith alone"?

    You cant?

    Oh too bad,,,did I catch you making stuff up again?.....

    prove me wrong.
    If you think you can find any place in the recording where Walter martin teaches we are saved by "Faith alone"...then do so now....I challenge you to.



    But if you cant, then consider yourself "warned" to stop misrepresenting what Walter Martin says on the videos.

    (perhaps you might be digging a hole here you did not mean to dig?.....If that is the case, I might suggest you clarify that you never once heard Walter Martin teach anything on the videos but we are saved by GRACE ALONE, and that the other stuff you said was just stuff you made up)

  6. #31
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I highlighted the terms in red--found in your post. Please reread my answer.
    Your Misrepresenting what Walter martin teaches is something that is clearly poor manners..
    But now misrepresenting what I have said is only going to get you in some serious trouble with me...

    be warned, you are going down a dark path....


    (If that happens again I will try one more time, perhaps in a PM to draw you back from going off the cliff)

  7. #32
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    listen....I have never said even once "Faith alone"

    I have posted many times the video where you can hear from Walter martin tell you what the Bible teaches..

    Why are you still confused?


    Noting I have posted has said "Faith alone.
    I have never once posted the words "Faith alone"

    I dont believe such a thing,


    I have posted many times a video that shows Walter Martin teaching clearly what the Bible is telling us on the topic.

    I have quoted Walter many times, and you can check to make sure I have quoted him correctly as I have also pointed to the very spot on the recording that I'm quoting.

    Walter Martin says we are not saved by Faith alone...nor works, nor any combination of the two.


    You have the videos , you have seen and heard Walter talking at length on the topic.
    I have quoted him over and over...

    So lets try to document from now on any opinions as to Walter being a co-called "faith alone" teacher.
    I dont think it is fair to intentionally misrepresent the teachings of Walter.

    I shall post once again the recording of Walter answering the question about how we are saved.
    If within the recording you find support for your views?..then quote the part that does.
    But if at long last you start to see that what Walter is saying is actually the same thing I have been saying all along?..

    Then I would expect this to end this matter here and now.

    you can quote...or you can invent....
    One path leads to understanding, the other leads to the door...

  8. #33
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I posted the video....tell me where he says we are saved by "faith alone"?
    That's not what the faith alone theology claims. That is the term(faith alone--sola fide) to describe the theology. The theology of faith alone is one is saved by God's grace without any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

    IOW--a salvation by Grace through a faith without works. The faith alone theology does not state one is saved by faith alone. But, one is saved through a faith that is alone in salvation by grace--not accompanied by works.

    You are confusing what one is saved by in faith alone theology--and what one is saved through. The faith alone teach one is saved BY grace THROUGH faith.

    That "faith" found in Ephesians28 is a faith without works, the faith alone claim--IOW--one is saved THROUGH(not by) dead faith.

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Walter Martin preached the faith alone theology--one is saved by grace through a faith without works.No acts of obedience to Jesus Christ as necessary for God's salvational grace.

    Again--the faith alone theology is addressed by the Biblical text--in the only occurrence of the term "faith alone" found in the Bible:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

  9. #34
    alanmolstad
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    You are guilty of misrepresentation of Walter Martin's views as well as my own.

    You are clearly unable to quote any proof that Walter or I believe as you have claimed.

    You continue to dig a hole..

    I will have to decide how to respond to your poor behavior now.

  10. #35
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    That's not what the faith alone theology claims. That is the term(faith alone--sola fide) to describe the theology. The theology of faith alone is one is saved by God's grace without any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

    IOW--a salvation by Grace through a faith without works. The faith alone theology does not state one is saved by faith alone. But, one is saved through a faith that is alone in salvation by grace--not accompanied by works.

    You are confusing what one is saved by in faith alone theology--and what one is saved through. The faith alone teach one is saved BY grace THROUGH faith.

    That "faith" found in Ephesians28 is a faith without works, the faith alone claim--IOW--one is saved THROUGH(not by) dead faith.

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Walter Martin preached the faith alone theology--one is saved by grace through a faith without works.No acts of obedience to Jesus Christ as necessary for God's salvational grace.

    Again--the faith alone theology is addressed by the Biblical text--in the only occurrence of the term "faith alone" found in the Bible:

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    You are guilty of misrepresentation of Walter Martin's views as well as my own.

    You are clearly unable to quote any proof that Walter or I believe as you have claimed.

    You continue to dig a hole..

    I will have to decide how to respond to your poor behavior now.
    You made an accusation--but did not provide the first evidence to back it up. What do you believe is false about my statements above, specifically?

  11. #36
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    You made an accusation--but did not provide the first evidence to back it up. What do you believe is false about my statements above, specifically?
    You might want to refer to the guest known as "The way" if you think that just because there are so few posts on this forum that it means I am bluffing....

    I have provided recordings on the teachings on Walter martin...I have also posted on this topic of salvation more than enough for you to supported your wild claims had they not just been stuff you invented out of thin air.

    misrepresenting Martin will get you trouble...

    misrepresenting me will get expensive...

  12. #37
    alanmolstad
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    In the recording of Martin teaching on this topic os salvation.....
    Martin says at :31 that "Salvation isn't by_____?

    at :31 what does Martin salvation isn't by?

  13. #38
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostYou made an accusation--but did not provide the first evidence to back it up. What do you believe is false about my statements above, specifically?
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    You might want to refer to the guest known as "The way" if you think that just because there are so few posts on this forum that it means I am bluffing....

    I have provided recordings on the teachings on Walter martin...I have also posted on this topic of salvation more than enough for you to supported your wild claims had they not just been stuff you invented out of thin air.

    misrepresenting Martin will get you trouble...

    misrepresenting me will get expensive...
    I don't mind trouble or expense--but this is just another example of more accusations without the first bit of evidence as to what you are even referring to, specifically.

  14. #39
    alanmolstad
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    In the recording of Martin teaching on this topic os salvation.....
    Martin says at :31 that "Salvation isn't by_____?

    at :31 what does Martin salvation isn't by?





    Why cant you answer this question?

  15. #40
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Walter Martin believed in the faith alone theology.
    answer my question....

  16. #41
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostWalter Martin believed in the faith alone theology.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    answer my question....
    Walter Martin preached faith alone theology--regardless of your question.

  17. #42
    alanmolstad
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    Regardless of what Walter Martin is recorded teaching?



    just answer the question!



    or.....


    You cant?
    You dont dare?
    The facts seem to fly in the face or your views?
    Are all in your religion so set in their views that facts no longer matter?


    What you are is caught in a web ....

    You know full well that you don't dare answer my question because the moment you do you show yourself to be telling untruths, and your whole argument falls like a house of cards.

    The real reason is that you didn't know what you were talking about when you tried to make the off-hand comment about Walter Martin's teachings.
    You unfortunately told these untruths about Martin to a guy who knows a few things about what Walter martin taught....

    Perhaps your invented untruths have always worked before in the past when told to people that did not know what Walter taught?......Im guessing that is what happens around here.


    It must come as a unwelcome surprise to be so openly shown to be totally in error to the point where you can't even answer a simple question about what appears on a recording.


    so sad......

  18. #43
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Walter Martin preached faith alone theology--regardless of your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Regardless of what Walter Martin is recorded teaching?
    Walter Martin never denies he has a faith alone theology. He did. He was an ordained Baptist minister. Baptist have a faith alone theology.

    Alan--I believe you are confusing Walter Martin's claim one is not saved by faith alone--with faith alone theology.

    A faith alone theology does not state one is saved by faith alone. The faith alone believe they are saved by God's grace--through a faith without works.

    Walter Martin never denies he had a faith alone theology.

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

  19. #44
    alanmolstad
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    so sad....you are trapped and dont dare answer my simple question about a recording?

    Im going to need to start a topic about this matter...
    Something about "The question a Mormon could not dare answer!"

    and then have the recording to see if any Mormons can actually answer the question, or is this just you?

  20. #45

  21. #46
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    answer my question....
    bump for the new guest....

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    You might want to refer to the guest known as "The way" if you think that just because there are so few posts on this forum that it means I am bluffing....

    I have provided recordings on the teachings on Walter martin...I have also posted on this topic of salvation more than enough for you to supported your wild claims had they not just been stuff you invented out of thin air.

    misrepresenting Martin will get you trouble...

    misrepresenting me will get expensive...
    If his posts upset you so much and cause you so much anger, you might want to put him on ignore. That can be a good solution to such problems, it has been suggested.

  23. #48
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    If his posts upset you so much and cause you so much anger, you might want to put him on ignore. That can be a good solution to such problems, it has been suggested.
    Yesterday I decided how I would respond to the different invented falsehoods.
    I decided that I would simply keep pointing out their behavior as an example that - "You cant trust what they say" , and set up links to things/questions they refuse to answer.

    So its actually going to be a nice little way to point out what they all are like as a religion.

    As far as the IGNORE LIST goes?
    Yes, Its on the table,
    And, I can always put people on IGNORE later if I think its needed....

    So far that has really only happened for the truly most poorly mannered three people who have 'blessed' this forum with their posts.

  24. #49
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Walter Martin never denies he has a faith alone theology. He did. He was an ordained Baptist minister. Baptist have a faith alone theology.

    Alan--I believe you are confusing Walter Martin's claim one is not saved by faith alone--with faith alone theology.

    A faith alone theology does not state one is saved by faith alone. The faith alone believe they are saved by God's grace--through a faith without works.

    Walter Martin never denies he had a faith alone theology.

    James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Yesterday I decided how I would respond to the different invented falsehoods.
    You haven't shown any falsehoods. Walter Martin was a faith alone theology adherent. The faith alone have a theology of salvation by grace through a faith without works.


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also historically known as the doctrine of justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, and some in the Restoration Movement.

    The doctrine of sola fide or "by faith alone" ***erts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith, conceived as excluding all "works," alone.

  25. #50
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post

    Regardless of what Walter Martin is recorded teaching?



    just answer the question!



    or.....


    You cant?
    You dont dare?
    The facts seem to fly in the face or your views?
    Are all in your religion so set in their views that facts no longer matter?


    What you are is caught in a web ....

    You know full well that you don't dare answer my question because the moment you do you show yourself to be telling untruths, and your whole argument falls like a house of cards.

    The real reason is that you didn't know what you were talking about when you tried to make the off-hand comment about Walter Martin's teachings.
    You unfortunately told these untruths about Martin to a guy who knows a few things about what Walter martin taught....

    Perhaps your invented untruths have always worked before in the past when told to people that did not know what Walter taught?......Im guessing that is what happens around here.


    It must come as a unwelcome surprise to be so openly shown to be totally in error to the point where you can't even answer a simple question about what appears on a recording.


    so sad......
    oh they love to post a lot of reasons why they "can't answer my question....LOL
    Or, perhaps they think they don't need to answer my question?...well, that is true in a way as I can't force anyone to face the music as it were...
    (I mean you can lead a horse to water...)

    But I can point this out as being very "representative" of their religion, as well as the effect their religion has had on them.

    For really, I don't actually think that the people that join the Mormon church are like this when they join, but it does seem to be something that "happens" to people once they adopt the Mormon-way of thinking that they need to defend the "teachings" of Smith even over what they can see for themselves to be the truth in the Scriptures.....
    (or in this case hear for themselves on a recording of Walter Martin.)

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