2 Peter 3:9

[Saxon]

I am of the belief that anyone can repent and that anyone can be saved. No one has been predestined to salvation or ****ation.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by Saxon

I am of the belief that anyone can repent and that anyone can be saved. No one has been predestined to salvation or ****ation.

But Saxon,

", , if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15)

By God's decree:

"with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Rom 10:10)

For "God , , now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)

So then:

"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

So, even if they might instinctively call upon the Creator to repent, but as you know we must "confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus".

"How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” (Rom 10:14-16)

Can they possibly believe in the Christ without hearing, just as Peter confessed Him by what God "revealed" to him? I think it's possible, regardless, "they did not all heed".

• The Gospel must be heard (v14-15)
• The gospel must be believed (v16)

I don't know how you feel, in that, although the kindness of God can "lead to repentance", it remains a stand alone. Generally, people understandingly become very opinionated over this and don't feel God could possibly do this to all the otherwise "good" people out there. I must admit, in life, as is also shown in the word very well-intentioned people. But we recall again His truth:

"THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.” (Rom 3:12)

This is as you can see, the whole world and everyone in it. So, if everyone is in need of the one and only name given under heaven by which "we must be saved", Jesus, how long do we have before we can no longer send any more preachers to the hearer?

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14)
"And it shall come to p***, that in the place where it was said unto them, You are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." (Rom 9:26)

Mike.

[Saxon]

I am in full agreement with you as far as what you are saying goes. I think that you may have misunderstood me.

What I should say is that every one that has been born into the world has an equal opportunity for salvation. It is true that not everyone is going to be saved but no one has been predestined to heaven or to hell.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by Saxon

I am in full agreement with you as far as what you are saying goes. I think that you may have misunderstood me.

What I should say is that every one that has been born into the world has an equal opportunity for salvation. It is true that not everyone is going to be saved but no one has been predestined to heaven or to hell.

Thanks Sax,

Maybe this doesn’t qualify as “predestined” then.

For He knew who would betray Him. (John 13:11)

If He knew who would betray, then I suppose it isn’t such a profitable thought to consider He also knows who would repent?

[Saxon]

Thanks Sax,

Maybe this doesn’t qualify as “predestined” then.

For He knew who would betray Him. (John 13:11)

If He knew who would betray, then I suppose it isn’t such a profitable thought to consider He also knows who would repent?

God knows the beginning to the end. If God looks through time and sees you eating a green apple on your 90th birthday and on your 90th birthday you do eat a green apple instead of a red one this didn’t happen because God caused it to happen but rather because he saw you eat the green apple. This is the difference between knowing and causing.

God knows who will respond because he saw them responding not because he caused them to respond. In any case it is God who allows it to happen and not necessarily the cause of it. It is my opinion that we are responsible to freely respond to the call of God.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by Saxon

God knows the beginning to the end. If God looks through time and sees you eating a green apple on your 90th birthday and on your 90th birthday you do eat a green apple instead of a red one this didn’t happen because God caused it to happen but rather because he saw you eat the green apple. This is the difference between knowing and causing.

God knows who will respond because he saw them responding not because he caused them to respond. In any case it is God who allows it to happen and not necessarily the cause of it. It is my opinion that we are responsible to freely respond to the call of God.

Thanks Sax,

I don't see a reason to disagree with you, only to say no, Sir, I’m not trying to say the only means He has to attain foreknowledge is because He forces things in a certain way.

Which by the way I’ll be the first to admit absolute ignorance as to the full range of options the Father has with any given task He places on himself. Even though by the Spirit, we can peer into “the deep things of God”, all too often, you’ll see the mind of man going in the opposite direction.

When the student steps into this study, after a while, you can begin to see the limitation people’s mind will place on God. This subject is just one that is subject to mortal limitation.

For instance, just because from the beginning of creation:

“[H]e holds all things together”, , , “and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins” (Col 1:17; Heb 1:3)

That's all sins, doesn't mean He chooses to run a full working knowledge of every detail of those “things”:

“Then He said, "For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from Me” (Gen 22:12)

"Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” Lk 22:48)

Yet, even on earth by His Spirit, as with the woman at the well, sometimes He did:

“Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe?” (Jn 1:50)

So, if using the retrospect with Judas, it could be a completely uniform “might” towards freewill with an option to recover oneself than some folks with predestination are willing to allow.

“From which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place” (Acts 1:25)

But I think there are other areas on this too.

Mike.

[Saxon]

You are right. When we think that we have it all covered, it is time to start over. It would be obvious that we went astray somewhere along the way.