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Thread: Walter Martin and faith alone theology

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    Default Walter Martin and faith alone theology

    There has been at least one person here that denies Walter Martin held a faith alone theology. Here are the facts:

    Our Beliefs --Christian Research Institute---http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

    6) Jesusí death on the cross provided a penal substitutionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from Godís wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

    Again, Alan--Walter Martin preached a faith alone theology--which states one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. IOW--dead faith saves, in the faith alone theology:

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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    Walter Martin and faith alone theology

    There has been at least one person here that denies Walter Martin held a faith alone theology. Here are the facts:

    Our Beliefs --Christian Research Institute---http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

    6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal substitutionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

    Again, Alan--Walter Martin preached a faith alone theology--which states one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. IOW--dead faith saves, in the faith alone theology:

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Bump for Alan

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    Walter Martin and faith alone theology

    There has been at least one person here that denies Walter Martin held a faith alone theology. Here are the facts:

    Our Beliefs --Christian Research Institute---http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

    6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal substitutionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

    Again, Alan--Walter Martin preached a faith alone theology--which states one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. IOW--dead faith saves, in the faith alone theology:

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Bump for anyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Bump for Alan

    Walter did not write that....

    The link you try to twist into be written and representing Walter's teaching is actually written and represents Hank Hanegraaff's views.....

    Are the links words well written or not?..
    Do they correctly represent Hank's views?.....

    Such questions are best addressed to Hank himself...

    ......................... (If you want we could write to Hank and ask him?)




    Now as for what Walter Martin believed?...lets just look at what Walter said on this very same question and get it right from the horse's mouth what Walter believed and what he taught.


    ...(That way we dont have to try to guess based on the links text that was not even written by Walter in the first place!!!! )



    THERE, THAT IS WHAT WALTER REALLY BELIEVED!!

    You should watch carefully at the 3:40 section of the video where Walter teaches us what he believes about salvation.

    So when you watch the video what do we learn about Walter's teachings?...we learn that Walter clearly taught that works do not add to our salvation at all.
    We are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

    Salvation is not helped by works, but faith is always bringing forth works...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Walter Martin and faith alone theology

    There has been at least one person here that denies Walter Martin held a faith alone theology. Here are the facts:

    Our Beliefs --Christian Research Institute---http://www.equip.org/about/our-beliefs/

    6) Jesus’ death on the cross provided a penal substitutionary atonement for the sins of humanity. In salvation we are rescued from God’s wrath by His unmerited grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone.

    Again, Alan--Walter Martin preached a faith alone theology--which states one is saved by God's grace--through a faith without works. IOW--dead faith saves, in the faith alone theology:

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Bump for anyone
    This nonsensical argument is a false dilemma which seeks only to deny the doctrine of grace.

    As I have pointed out to you in other threads, James places the emphasis on the fact that genuine faith alone in Christ produces good works. Not the other way around. We know this because of the many other Scriptures that clearly indicate that Christian salvation is achieved by placing one's faith entirely in the Work of Christ on the Cross, and any effort to "supplement" that Divine Work, denies the sufficiency of Christ's Work to overcome all sin.

    To argue against the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing, one must twist the Scriptures into theological pretzels in an attempt to prove that they agree with Mormon doctrines. The problem for you is that Mormon doctrines cannot be found in the Bible. (Or the Book of Mormon).

    Salvation (Exaltation in Mormon-speak) comes by keeping all of the commandments, but, which no one can do. For "all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" (Romans 3:23) and 1 John 1:8 insists: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

    Are you saying you have no sin? The Bible says you are a liar if you claim that. If you do have sin, then according to Mormon teachings you have not truly repented. Mormons who have not truly repented are still in sin, which means you are not eligible for the Celestial Kingdom when you die, and all who are not good enough for the Celestial Kingdom (meaning they have not become sinless) are sealed to Satan for an eternity in the lake of fire. Also with their god, Joseph Smith the false prophet.

    Since this is the Mormon section, don't you think these issues should be focused on rather than attempting to make fodder of the Bible, which you, (being unsaved and therefore void of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit), have no God given ability to understand? That's probably why they confuse you so much. Your attempts to make ignorant Christians squirm, by taking Bible verses out of context to create these false dilemmas, only demonstrates that you don't have a clue what you're talking about when it comes to the Bible. So you have no business turning your attention to Christianity in a pointless attempt to find fault with its teachings, when you have no ability whatsoever to understand them.

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    I think I more that proved my point here......

    Walter is very clear in the video....he has been more that clear on this topic over and over,,,
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I think I more that proved my point here......

    Walter is very clear in the video....he has been more that clear on this topic over and over,,,
    If one were to look at Walter Martin's book--"The Kingdom of the Cults"--in the "GENERAL EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION"--paragraph 6--there is a statement they teach a salvation by grace--based on a theology of faith alone--without any works necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    If one were to look at Walter Martin's book--"The Kingdom of the Cults"--in the "GENERAL EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION"--paragraph 6--there is a statement they teach a salvation by grace--based on a theology of faith alone--without any works necessary.
    LOL.....thats funny....



    (See post #4 above to learn what Walter Martin really taught in his OWN words...)


    For man is not saved by faith, nor by works, nor by any combination of the two.
    If salvation came via works of the law then Christ died for nothing.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-18-2017 at 06:03 AM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    If one were to look at Walter Martin's book--"The Kingdom of the Cults"--in the "GENERAL EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION"--paragraph 6--there is a statement they teach a salvation by grace--based on a theology of faith alone--without any works necessary.
    I think you better back-up and re-read whatever it is you are reading...

    Chances are, you are reading something that Walter did not write correct?
    Chances are that whatever you are posting here is actually a quote from some other work correct?
    And chances are that if what you are quoting is true Christian teachings, then we should make sure we quote it with the correct context of it being that we are saved by Grace,
    Yes, we are saved by GRACE!....."grace though faith".


    So we are not saved by faith
    So we are not saved by works
    So we are not saved by adding works to faith
    So we are not saved by adding faith to our works.

    We are saved by grace.

    Saved by grace through faith.

    Saved by grace though faith and not by works.




    Now Im not sure what you are reading, nor it's context.
    But if what you are attempting to quote is correct Christian theology, then it should be in agreement with what i just have posted here now.







    so go check your source again
    http://hisbridgemedia.com/docs/Marti...OfTheCults.pdf
    and see if it is in agreement with what I have said?, or what i have said I suspect about what it is saying?, and who wrote it?...
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-18-2017 at 06:24 AM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Just so we have a very clear understanding of what Walter Martin taught and believed...
    What we see in the above video is Walter teaching how men are saved.

    Please turn your attention to the 0:30 second point of this short video clip.

    Here is what Walter says, (and I will try to quote it word for word)




    "First of all salvation isn't by faith, it isn't by works, or any combination of them. Salvation is by grace alone though faith."






    Did you catch that?...."Salvation is by grace ALONE....though faith"
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I think you better back-up and re-read whatever it is you are reading...
    Alan--Walter Martin was the author of "The Kingdom of the Cults".

    Again--if you will go to the "GENERAL EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION"--paragraph 6--there is a statement they teach a salvation by grace--based on a theology of faith alone--without any works necessary.

    I could quote it from the actual book--if you would like, and I have permission to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I could quote it from the actual book--if you would like, and I have permission to do so.
    I thought I posted the link to what you were quoting?

    Does the link work for you?...worked here for me when I tested it...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Alan--Walter Martin was the author of "The Kingdom of the Cults".

    Again--if you will go to the "GENERAL EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION"--paragraph 6--.....
    Walter did not write that.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    If Im looking at the same thing you are,,,,then what you are quoting is not at all what Walter martin wrote.

    agreed?


    What its is, is something that was added to the book by someone else.

    agreed?



    Now because im looking at the text on a computer, there may be some difference in how the paragraps are arranged to fit on the screen compared to a printed page..

    So why dont you copy/past the paragraph 6 so I know for sure what you are looking at.....thanks
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    as far as I can guess what you are talking about,, you are quoting something that is not a quote of Walter Martin.
    Correct?


    it is in fact a quote of the publication of a group known in my day as the "World Wide church Of God"....(the Armstrong guys).

    I think the quote is lifted from their mag "THE PLAIN TRUTH"
    Correct?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    if you admit the quote is not really from Martin....then...um...what was your point again?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Walter did not write that.
    Please allow me to remind you the book--"The Kingdom of the Cults"--was authored by Walter Martin. If there was something in there which violated his theology--then why would he have lent his name to it?

    Kingdom of the Cults, rev. and updated ed. - Edited By: Ravi Zacharias
    By: Walter Martin

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Please allow me to remind you the book--"The Kingdom of the Cults"--was authored by Walter Martin. If there was something in there which violated his theology--then why would he have lent his name to it?

    Kingdom of the Cults, rev. and updated ed. - Edited By: Ravi Zacharias
    By: Walter Martin
    haha,...so you admit Walter Martin did not write it!!!!!


    case-closed!




    the paragraph you wanted to badly to quote was written long after Mr Martin has passed away....it says that!

    Did you ever bother to read what you were quoting?



    so, you tried to make it look like Walter had written something, but the TRUTH is, Walter Martin had already died by the time this was added to his book....and it was written by some other guy and added....and the thing that you are quoting that was added is actually a quotation from the World Wide Church Of God , not from anything Walter had written at all....


    Walter Martin had no connection to these people at all...


    He did not write what appears in that added introduction to his book...it says clearly who did write it, it tells us clearly it was written well after his death...



    Thus...you fail...





    Got anything else to say?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    if you want to learn what Walter taught on salvation, and the role of works and faith and grace?...then why not listen to the recordings I have posted where you get get it straight from the lips of Walter?

    I have posted the videos....you can check them yourself.

    look for any point you think Walter cant support and go from there...

    But have the courage to address what Walter has actually said....or what he has actually written.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    after all the title of this topic is what again?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    "First of all salvation isn't by faith, it isn't by works, or any combination of them. Salvation is by grace alone though faith." Walter Martin
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    haha,...so you admit Walter Martin did not write it!!!!!

    case-closed! the paragraph you wanted to badly to quote was written long after Mr Martin has passed away....it says that!
    In the seventh paragraph of the same "GENERAL EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION"--it states the material maintains the integrity of Martin's original work--and have preserved Martin's original thoughts.

    Do you believe the book--"The Kingdom of the Cults"--could promulgate a theology which was opposed to Walter Martin's own--and maintain his thoughts? The estate of Walter Martin owns the copyright to the book. Are you clai9ming they copyrighted a book which opposes the theology of Walter Martin?


    In Memory of Walter Martin (1928-1989): The Original Bible Answer Man, Part 3 (of 3)--http://www.reasons.org/articles/in-memory-of-walter-martin-1928-1989-the-original-bible-answer-man-part-3-of-3
    June 23, 2009
    By Kenneth R. Samples

    "However, Martin also believed that Christians must align both head and heart in devotion to the Lord. He believed that Christ’s followers are saved solely by grace, through faith alone, but were called to a life of gratitude and holy service to God. Martin lived out his spiritual convictions through prayer and strong devotion to the Lord."

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    3) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then could you list the works Walter Martin thought was necessary for salvation?

    4) If you can list none--nor believe there was any works necessary for salvation--then could you explain to us what the difference was between Walter Martin's theology--and faith alone theology?

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    oh,,,,now you jump to the 7th paragraph?

    What happened to your point about the 6th paragraph?


    LOL...whats a joke...
    Do you not realize what a joke it is for a guy to have a monster-size book filled with the very words of Martin, and yet skip-over that stuff and then try to make a point about what Walter taught by only quoting something that Walter never wrote, that was written way after he was dead, and was written not by a person in Martin's league?


    How can you not see how "desperate' that appears to me?




    so......rather than going to the words of Walter himself, you.........run away from them?


    What is it about Walter's own words that make you unable to quote them to prove your point?


    I will post once again the video of Walter talking about how men are saved, and from this we both can see for sure what Walter taught...

    and then you can find out if at any point I have said something that is not supported by Walter's words????
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-18-2017 at 01:36 PM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    the title of this topic deals with Walter Martin ,...so stick to that.


    If you want to study the theology of Hank Handograf?...fine, start that topic and we will post what hank has taught in his own words too....
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    There, if a person was serious about wanted to know what Walter taught about salvation, this is the place tpo look.
    Walter talks about the subject, and there is zero room left to doubt what he was teaching!
    The man had a way of making his point very clear....and was not afraid to correct people.

    Notice how he 'corrects' the host of the show by pointing out that we are NOT saved by faith, not saved by works, and not saved by any combination of them.

    Then notice how Walter gives us the correct understanding of how man are saved, - We are saved by grace alone, though faith...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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