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Thread: Walter Martin and faith alone theology

  1. #101
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Yes.

    If it is never alone--could you explain for us what one adds to faith in obtaining salvation--in faith alone theology?
    again...we are not saved by faith.

    we are not saved by works.

    We are not saved by faith and works in any combination.




    How are we saved?
    We are saved by grace though faith, and not by works.


    Think of the thief on the cross.
    He is in the middle of his death for his life of sins, yet in the last moments of his life, turns to Christ and believes.

    that thief is just as saved as a person who grew up in the faith.

    This is because our faith and our salvation is not based on our works, but on the Lord's.

    Just believe.

    Dont have to climb a mountain,
    Dont have to know a secret handshake.
    Dont have to know a secret name or password.
    Don t have to lead a sinless life.

    We are saved by Grace though faith, and not by our works.



    We are not saved by grace though faith and some of our works.
    We are not saved after all we can do.


    How are we saved?
    We are saved because of what Jesus did.....it is not of ourselves it is a gift of God...
    Not by our works, but by his grace!


    any questions?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 05-06-2017 at 02:15 PM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    again...we are not saved by faith.

    we are not saved by works.

    We are not saved by faith and works in any combination.

    How are we saved? We are saved by grace though faith, and not by works.

    any questions?
    Yes:

    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post So we are saved by grace though faith alone, but our faith is never alone..any questions?
    Again--if faith is never alone--then what do you, of yourself-- combine with faith in obtaining salvation?

  3. #103
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Yes:



    Again--if faith is never alone--then what do you, of yourself-- combine with faith in obtaining salvation?
    What part of saved by grace through faith and not by works do you not understand?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  4. #104
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    What part of saved by grace through faith and not by works do you not understand?
    so what am I saying then?

    Im saying that salvation is NOT EARNED!


    You dont add anything to "obtain" salvation.....
    You cant do any "work" that adds anything at all to salvation.
    Not one single thing any person can do adds squat to your salvation.


    the only path given us in the Bible is this - We are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

    and, the moment you attempt to add anything to this understanding you step away from the Christian faith taught us in the Scriptures.

    The moment you attempt to make salvation a matter of performing 'works" you are teaching what the CULTS teach,...for the CULTS love to teach their people that they need to do some type of works to "obtain" and maintain their salvation,,,and that becomes the hook the CULT gets into the person, and it holds them inside the CULT for the person gets convinced that without listening to the CULT'S leaders and teachings they would not know what "works" to perform and so would not have their salvation.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    What part of saved by grace through faith and not by works do you not understand?
    The part here:

    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post So we are saved by grace though faith alone, but our faith is never alone..any questions?
    Again--if faith is never alone--then what do you, of yourself-- combine with faith in obtaining salvation?

  6. #106
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    what part of "Not by works" dont you get?


    There is NOTHING you can add to grace though faith that matters squat!



    Nothing,,,zero......zip!

    The Bible does not say we are "saved by grace though faith "AND" something else"...

    So we are saved by grace though faith and NOTHING else!!!!!



    No works?....yes!!!!!!


    Not a single work is added by the person to "obtain" their salvation?........yes!!!!!!!!

    So you don't have to have faith and a list of works?......nope!



    Just faith?......yes








    Just saved by grace though faith alone
    ?......YES!!!!



    Is there no work listed in the Bible that is asked of men
    ?....Only the so-called "work" of believing in Jesus!


    So the only required "work" is to have faith and believe, and that faith is said to be what grace works though to save men?......YES!
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 05-08-2017 at 05:43 PM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    what part of "Not by works" dont you get? There is NOTHING you can add to grace though faith that matters squat!
    The question was not what one adds to grace--but what you believe one adds to faith:

    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post So we are saved by grace though faith alone, but our faith is never alone..any questions?
    Again--if the faith is never alone--what do you add to it in order that it not be alone?

    Nothing,,,zero......zip!
    Then obviously--it is alone. How do you justify your comments-- "our faith is never alone."

    just saved by grace though faith alone
    But didn't you just testify faith is never alone?

    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post So we are saved by grace though faith alone, but our faith is never alone.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    The question was not what one adds to grace--but what you believe one adds to faith:You dont even want to try to add anything...even the suggestion is going against the scriptures.



    Again--if the faith is never alone--what do you add to it in order that it not be alone?
    You dont add anything to grace though faith, to be able to be saved....


    Then obviously--it is alone. How do you justify your comments-- "our faith is never alone."Because faith is never alone



    But didn't you just testify faith is never alone?
    Yes, faith is never alone.





    if you have any questions, just ask
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Yes, faith is never alone.
    if you have any questions, just ask
    Thanks for soliciting questions about your assertion.
    What is there, ALONG WITH faith, that makes it not alone?

    What was up there alongside the faith of the thief on the cross, that resulted in his faith not being alone?
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Thanks for soliciting questions about your assertion.
    What is there, ALONG WITH faith, that makes it not alone?
    faith is never alone.....for what is "THE" work that is required by God?.....the answer is "To believe"

    The only work that is asked of us is to "believe", and this is the only work that matters...this is why we say faith is never alone, for it is never alone...


    Dont have to know a secret handshake
    Dont have to wear secret undies
    Dont have to agree to have sex with Smith
    None of that Mormon junk
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post

    What was up there alongside the faith of the thief on the cross, that resulted in his faith not being alone?


    Well it sure was not keeping the commandments....a little late for that.

    It sure was not leading a sinless life.....a little late for that too.

    It sure was not anything a guy could actually walk over and do.....as the thief was a bit pinned to the tree at the moment.


    All that we know of the thief is what we read, and what we read tells us that the thief believed" in Jesus.
    That fact means that the thief had the only "work" that is asked of us to have....the thief had faith and was saved...for we are "Saved by grace though faith, and not by works!!!!!!"


    so the faith of the thief was not alone.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post

    What was up there alongside the faith of the thief on the cross, that resulted in his faith not being alone?


    Well it sure was not keeping the commandments....a little late for that.

    It sure was not leading a sinless life.....a little late for that too.

    It sure was not anything a guy could actually walk over and do.....as the thief was a bit pinned to the tree at the moment.


    All that we know of the thief is what we read, and what we read tells us that the thief believed" in Jesus.
    That fact means that the thief had the only "work" that is asked of us to have....the thief had faith and was saved...for we are "Saved by grace though faith, and not by works!!!!!!"


    so the faith of the thief was not alone.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    faith is never alone.....for what is "THE" work that is required by God?.....the answer is "To believe"
    The only work that is asked of us is to "believe", and this is the only work that matters...this is why we say faith is never alone, for it is never alone..
    So in your made-up requirements for earning salvation, there are TWO necessary ingredients, and they are

    Faith plus BELIEF.

    Interesting. Too bad the Bible doesn't say what you are saying.

    Read what James, a half-brother of Jesus and one of the early apostles of His church, said is the thing that must accompany faith in order for a person to be justified--in order for your faith to not be alone.

    Dont have to know a secret handshake
    Dont have to wear secret undies
    Dont have to agree to have sex with Smith
    None of that Mormon junk
    I guess I need to remind you of two of the forum rules. They are in my signature line.

    Please remember those rules, so you won't break them in the future.
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  14. #114
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    The Bible states very clearly that we are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

    So its not by faith
    It's not by works
    Its not by any combination of faith and works.


    so you dont need to strap on the secret undies
    You dont need to practice a secret hand shake
    You dont need to whisper a secret name.
    You dont need to have sex with Mormon founder J Smith, (No matter how hard he tries to talk his way into your bed)

    No, you dont need to do any of the Mormon junk...

    what is the only path to salvation?.....this - "We are saved by Grace though Faith, and NOT BY WORKS!".........Amen!


    any questions?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  15. #115
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    so to be very clear here on this important matter.


    The only path to salvation given in the Bible is this - We are saved by Grace though faith and not by works.



    Thats it......nothing more, nothing else.

    All are saved only by grace though faith alone and there is nothing you can ever add to this that matters squat.





    We are not saved by grace though faith and works!





    So anyone that says its "faith PLUS something else" is in error and is teaching a false teaching.







    So that is the one path to salvation.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  16. #116
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    But someone may ask me, (insert child's whinny voice here) "Yet Alan does it not say that "Faith without works is dead?"


    The answer to that is to point out that the Bible says we are saved by Grace though faith, and "Not by works"!
    So what this means is that we are saved and this is worked though our faith, and then because we are saved and have faith, the works just come.

    The works flow from the heart of the saved Christian.
    Thus we don't do works to "get" saved, rather we do good works because we have "been" saved.


    The works flow from the life of the Christian , all on their own.
    Theyt do this because they are actually the effect of the Lord's on the life of the Christian...
    Thus they flow from the heart of the Christian who is saved.



    They do not keep a person saved....they do not add anything to salvation....
    But they do testify that the person knows the Lord and is saved.
    They are the "Justification" for the Christian to make the claim that he is saved. For the world can not see into my heart but the world can see what things i say and do.

    This is why what I say and do matters for it is the only thing the world can know of my relationship with the Lord.
    This is why we are held to give account to our deeds.
    For they are our way of sharing the Lord's truths with the world.


    any questions?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 05-11-2017 at 05:07 AM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Yes, I have several questions. One of them is: What is a "whinny voice" ?

    is that the kind of voice a horse has?
    From the forum rules: "The definition of a derogatory term is one that insults, belittles or treats a group or individual with contempt. "

    "If you have to resort to making fun of people and their ideas, you have nothing valuable to contribute here."

  18. #118
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    Yes very true...an obnoxious sound ...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    so to be very clear here on this important matter. The only path to salvation given in the Bible is this - We are saved by Grace though faith and not by works.
    So-did these receive of God's salvational grace of the remission of sins by doing the work of God--or by God's grace?

    Acts 2:38--King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Thats it......nothing more, nothing else. All are saved only by grace though faith alone and there is nothing you can ever add to this that matters squat.
    Could you give us any reference to the term "faith alone" found in the entire Biblical text? The only one I find is this one:

    James 2:24--New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    We are not saved by grace though faith and works!
    IOW--we are saved through a dead faith?

    James 2:20-26---King James Version (KJV)
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    So anyone that says its "faith PLUS something else" is in error and is teaching a false teaching.
    Was Jesus in error?

    Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    So that is the one path to salvation.
    1 John 2:3-4--King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

  20. #120
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    we are saved ONLY by God's grace though faith....and not by any works at all.....none,,,there is no work that you can think of that is added or maintains your salvation.

    We are saved by grace through faith alone, but faith is never alone.

    For the works that men do flow from their saved hearts....it happens very naturally.

    If a person thinks that they need to "do something" , some type of act, something like climb a mountain, wear super-secret undies, known a fancy handshake, etc, and they put their trust in that they are barking up the wrong tree..



    salvation for us all in the Christian church, be it you and I, or the thief on the cross , is always the same path.
    and that path is that we are saved by grace though faith and not by works.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


    It must be so sad for you to always need to edit the full story of this part of the Bible so that you twist it into looking like it agrees with you, rather than just doing what the Christians do and simply quote the full story.....


    so sad....




    Let me know when you got the guts to look rightly at the story and we can discuss it...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    It must be so sad for you to always need to edit the full story of this part of the Bible so that you twist it into looking like it agrees with you,
    The testimony of the Savior agrees with all true Christianity:

    Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    That testimony does not need to be edited--the LDS accept it just as it stands:

    John 14:15---King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Is love of Jesus Christ necessary for eternal life to occur within us?

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    again...we are not saved by faith.

    we are not saved by works.

    We are not saved by faith and works in any combination.




    How are we saved?
    We are saved by grace though faith, and not by works.


    Think of the thief on the cross.
    He is in the middle of his death for his life of sins, yet in the last moments of his life, turns to Christ and believes.

    that thief is just as saved as a person who grew up in the faith.

    This is because our faith and our salvation is not based on our works, but on the Lord's.

    Just believe.

    Dont have to climb a mountain,
    Dont have to know a secret handshake.
    Dont have to know a secret name or password.
    Don t have to lead a sinless life.

    We are saved by Grace though faith, and not by our works.



    We are not saved by grace though faith and some of our works.
    We are not saved after all we can do.


    How are we saved?
    We are saved because of what Jesus did.....it is not of ourselves it is a gift of God...
    Not by our works, but by his grace!


    any questions?
    still one of my better posts...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  24. #124
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    so once again....we are saved ONLY via God's grace though faith and not by any works...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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