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Thread: Walter Martin and faith alone theology

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    the title of this topic deals with Walter Martin ,...so stick to that.

    If you want to study the theology of Hank Handograf?...fine, start that topic and we will post what hank has taught in his own words too....
    I noticed you avoided the questions:

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    3) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then could you list the works Walter Martin thought was necessary for salvation?

    4) If you can list none--nor believe there was any works necessary for salvation--then could you explain to us what the difference was between Walter Martin's theology--and faith alone theology?

    Care to engage those questions?

  2. #27
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    Im saying that you are afraid to quote martin.....and Im not..
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Im saying that you are afraid to quote martin.....and Im not..
    Then you shouldn't mind engaging the questions posed:

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    3) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then could you list the works Walter Martin thought was necessary for salvation?

    4) If you can list none--nor believe there was any works necessary for salvation--then could you explain to us what the difference was between Walter Martin's theology--and faith alone theology?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Im saying that you are afraid to quote martin.....and Im not..
    so as Im not afraid to quote dr Walter Martin on a topic that is all about what it taught...I shall....

    I think a few recordings of Martin teaching on this topic are a good place for me to start...

    BRB
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  5. #30
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    the first video we will go over in detail as we learn about Dr Martin's view of salvation is this one..





    Please take the short amount of time that you need to watch this video, it will be what we will be talking about in my next few posts...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Please take the short amount of time that you need to watch this video, it will be what we will be talking about in my next few posts...
    Thanks for the video--but it can't answer the questions I have posted to you:

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    3) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then could you list the works Walter Martin thought was necessary for salvation?

    4) If you can list none--nor believe there was any works necessary for salvation--then could you explain to us what the difference was between Walter Martin's theology--and faith alone theology?

  7. #32
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    Now the first thing Walter Martin teaches happens at 0:30 seconds into the video.




    What he says is "First of all, Salvation isn't by Faith"!



    with this first statement, Martin completely knocks down the false idea that he was a "Faith only" teacher....
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  8. #33
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    Next Walter goes after the people that think works contribute to salvation at 0:32 seconds




    "It isn't by works"!
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  9. #34
    Super Moderator alanmolstad's Avatar
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    But some people claim that we are saved by faith plus works.

    Walter next totally destroys that false teaching next at 0:34

    when speaking of faith and works, he says that they dont save alone "or any combination of them"


    hear it for yourself
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  10. #35
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    Thus....Walter is teaching that we are not saved by Faith alone,,,or by Works alone,,,or by any adding and mixing of faith and works....


    So now that we know man is not saved by faith alone, what does Walter teach as to how men are saved?

    The answer comes up next-
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Thus....Walter is teaching that we are not saved by Faith alone,,,or by Works alone,,,or by any adding and mixing of faith and works....

    So now that we know man is not saved by faith alone,
    But that is the same thing those of faith alone theology preach. They preach man is saved by God's grace--through faith alone. Not by faith alone--but through faith alone.

    So--care to answer my questions?

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    3) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then could you list the works Walter Martin thought was necessary for salvation?

    4) If you can list none--nor believe there was any works necessary for salvation--then could you explain to us what the difference was between Walter Martin's theology--and faith alone theology?

  12. #37
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    Now, because this topic is all about what Walter martin taught as to the question of salvation, I will center my answer on his words and use the things he taught with his very own lips....

    So how is man saved according to martin?


    What does the video reveal?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Now, because this topic is all about what Walter martin taught as to the question of salvation, I will center my answer on his words and use the things he taught with his very own lips....

    So how is man saved according to martin?

    What does the video reveal?
    It does not reveal the answer to these questions:

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    3) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then could you list the works Walter Martin thought was necessary for salvation?

    4) If you can list none--nor believe there was any works necessary for salvation--then could you explain to us what the difference was between Walter Martin's theology--and faith alone theology?

    Maybe you could reveal that?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Now, because this topic is all about what Walter martin taught as to the question of salvation, I will center my answer on his words and use the things he taught with his very own lips....

    So how is man saved according to martin?


    What does the video reveal?
    Lets find out what Walter taught from his own lips...






    at 0:35 we learn -

    "Salvation is by Grace Alone, though faith"





    What?

    Not "Faith alone"?
    What happened to faith alone?

    What does Martin say?....""Salvation is by Grand Alone, though faith".....

    Oh, so I get it now...as a Christian Im saved only by Grace alone!!!!!!!


    I dont give a rat's butt what others might teach, they likely don't have the chops to match the teaching we are getting now from Walter Martin anyway.

    thus, whenever we talk about salvation, the correct and wise thing to say is that we are saved by "Grace alone, thought faith".



    Yes, other Christians might talk about this fact in different ways, but the truth is, the church is filled with teachers that dont have the experience that Walter has...and while many teachers are still great Christians, and good writers, they may be a bit , lacking in how they pontificate on salvation.



    But Walter Martin is not lacking!

    You are getting real truth here kids!


    and its very clear...
    We are not saved by faith alone
    we are not saved by works alone
    We are not saved by faith and works at all.


    We are saved only by Grace alone, though faith, and not by works!







    learn this
    Live this....
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    next, lets hear what Walter Martin said about grace........
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Lets find out what Walter taught from his own lips...at 0:35 we learn -

    "Salvation is by Grace Alone, though faith"

    What?

    Not "Faith alone"?

    What happened to faith alone?

    What does Martin say?....""Salvation is by Grand Alone, though faith".....

    Oh, so I get it now...as a Christian Im saved only by Grace alone!!!!!!!
    Then faith alone is a false theology according to Walter Martin?

  17. #42
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    one of the first things Martin always said, is that you first have to define your terms.


    Now many people splash the term "Faith alone" around left and right, but what I see true is that the term itself means zip without talking about what you mean by the term.

    Its the same for the terms "faith" and "baptism, grace, salvation, being saved, etc"


    So that is why whenever someone says, "Did Joe Blow believe in faith alone or not?" I would answer with the request that they go listen to Joe Blow speak for himself.


    Its the same with Dr Walter Martin.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  18. #43
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    This is why I have talked about recently on this forum the terms "Not by works" and "Without works"


    The two terms means totally different things.
    But some people in their rush to teach or to point out something will mix one term with the other.


    I will give you an example of what I mean in my next post.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  19. #44
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    For example....we know that Christian theology (as Walter Martin has correctly taught in the video) believes in the teaching that men are saved by grace though faith and not by works.

    Agreed?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    For example....we know that Christian theology (as Walter Martin has correctly taught in the video) believes in the teaching that men are saved by grace though faith and not by works.

    Agreed?
    I think we can all agree that this is true.

    Then building on this point, we always need to point out that although we are not saved by works, this does not mean we are without works.



    Do you see the difference?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  21. #46
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    so this means that when I say that according to Christian Theology we are saved by grace though faith and not by works, Im not saying that the faith is ever without works.



    This is at the heart of the confusion sometimes when a person says they believe in "Faith alone"
    For many times a person can be heard to say they are a believe in the teaching that men are saved by grace though "faith alone".
    and when you ask them what this means it becomes very clear to you that what they are talking about is the normal Christian Theology that men are saved by grace though faith and not by works.

    They are not saying for one moment that the faith they speak of is without works.

    So therefore if in the future you see someone post or say that they believe men are saved by grace though faith alone, its not really a big deal once you have them define their terms and you learn that they were just talking about the normal Christian theology.

    Its the same concept, just talked about in their own way in their own words...
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  22. #47
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    by now I hope I have helped anyone that might have wondered what some people mean when they say they believe in "Faith alone".

    That if you ask them what they mean, mostly what you learn is that they are talking about the normal Christian theology of being saved by Grace though faith and not by works, and that this is not to be understood that their faith is without works at all, but only that we are not saved by works.



    Everyone clear on the difference now between the phrase, "Not by works" and "without works" ?
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Then faith alone is a false theology according to Walter Martin?
    Please refer to this - http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...out-works-quot
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    It does not reveal the answer to these questions:

    So--are you claiming:

    1) Those who claimed Walter Martin believed in faith alone theology--were misrepresenting him? Or, that the book which the Walter Martin estate copyrighted--has false information concerning Walter Martin's beliefs?

    ?
    Im saying that you tried and failed to connect Martin to words that martin did not write.

    The words you quoted were written by someone else, and you clearly did not point this out when you quoted them.


    The words you quoted were themselves a quotation from a former CULT mag called THE PLAIN TRUTH, that is a production of the WORLD WIDE CHURCH OF GOD and is not and never was a church that Walter Martin was a member of, or had an position within......and you should have pointed this out when you tried to use it in your post.


    Finally I'm saying that when you say the words "faith alone" you must define them....
    Anyone can use the phrase "Faith Alone" and so you must go back as find out from them what they mean by the words before you can so running around like chicken Little , shouting "Faith Alone!" , "Faith Alone!" or else you just look very silly, as you do now to me.



    I have told you that when many Christians use the term "Faith alone, they mean what the Bible says, that the Bible teaches we are not saved by works.

    Thats what many mean when they say, "Faith alone"


    They do not mean that their faith is without works, only that the teaching of the scriptures is very clear that we are not save by works, rather the Text says we are saved by Grace alone, though faith and not by works.



    So faith is never alone.....yet we are saved by grace alone though faith.
    If some say we are saved by grace alone though faith alone, then in defining what they mean by this we can see that mean the same thing as what the Bible teaches,

    see http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...out-works-quot

    and I finally suggest to anyone that wants to discuss what Walter Martin believed and taught, that they stick to the things Walter spoke himself, or wrote, and not try to twist the words of other's into this....
    I will take a dim view if I catch anyone in the future thinking that can slam Dr Martin and misrepresent what he taught in such a manner.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 03-20-2017 at 04:00 AM.
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    2) If you believe Walter Martin did not believe in faith alone theology--then the theology preached here--a salvation through a faith without works--is false, according to Walter Martin?

    ?
    again you mix up the words "Not by" with the word "Without"


    They are two different things in this context.

    Please refer to - http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...out-works-quot
    From the Forum RULES : "As you know, the Walter Martin website takes the position that Mormon theology is not Christian theology. Use of the term "LDS Christian" is inaccurate and misleading, and as such is not acceptable on this board."

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