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Thread: Walter Martin and faith alone theology

  1. #76
    alanmolstad
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    nope...you still fail to keep quoting the story.

    as long as you will fail to quote the rest of the story then there is really no point to your questions.






    again, my advice is to return to the same story you quoted, but this time read the next part and see that Jesus is teaching that keeping the law is a moot point.

  2. #77
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post ---It wasn't my point--it was the Savior's point.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    NOPE!
    I was thinking Jesus was the Savior:

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Jesus connected keeping the commandments with eternal life--which the Mosaic Law was not capable of.

    Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


    Could you explain for us how one could avoid Paul's condemnation--without obeying the ten commandments?

    1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    nope...you still fail to keep quoting the story.
    Jesus' story was eternal life is connected to keeping the commandments:

    John 14:15---King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

  3. #78
    alanmolstad
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    you can get back to me when you learn to quote the rest of the story....

  4. #79
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    you can get back to me when you learn to quote the rest of the story....
    This seems to be the whole story:

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    How does one comport faith alone theology to the witness of the Biblical NT?

    How does that differ from Walter Martin's theology?

  5. #80
    alanmolstad
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    until you find out how to quote the rest of the story,,,Im afraid there is no point in going farther with you.

  6. #81
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    until you find out how to quote the rest of the story,,,Im afraid there is no point in going farther with you.
    What falls short of going far enough--concerning the testimony of the Biblical text?

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

  7. #82
    alanmolstad
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    see post # 80

  8. #83
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    see post # 80
    See Biblical scriptures you have not engaged:

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Please allow me to add to that list:

    Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    1 John 3:24--King James Version (KJV)
    24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    John 14:21---King James Version (KJV)
    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

  9. #84
    alanmolstad
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    when you can learn to quote the rest of the story, just let me know.

    But until then.....

  10. #85
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    when you can learn to quote the rest of the story, just let me know.

    But until then.....
    As of now---the Biblical scriptures go unanswered:

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

  11. #86
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    It wasn't my point--it was the Savior's point.

    I noticed you did not engage any of the points:

    How does a theology of a salvation through a faith without any works differ from Walter Martin's theology?

    How does a theology which maintains one obtains salvation through a salvation without any works differ from the Savior's testimony?

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Could anyone answer these questions?

  12. #87
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Could anyone answer these questions?
    unless a person reads the 2nd half of a Bible story to understand it's point, there is no point...

  13. #88
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    unless a person reads the 2nd half of a Bible story to understand it's point, there is no point...
    So--what do you believe is in the "second half" of the scriptures--which covers up and cancels out the first?

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

  14. #89
    alanmolstad
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    see post number #72......#73......and ......#74

  15. #90
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    see post number #72......#73......and ......#74
    Please see Biblical scriptures you have not engaged:

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Please allow me to add to that list:

    Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    1 John 3:24--King James Version (KJV)
    24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    John 14:21---King James Version (KJV)
    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

  16. #91
    alanmolstad
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    See post 89

  17. #92
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    See post 89
    Care to address the scriptures?

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Please allow me to add to that list:

    Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    1 John 3:24--King James Version (KJV)
    24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    John 14:21---King James Version (KJV)
    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

  18. #93
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Care to address the scriptures?

    1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Please allow me to add to that list:

    Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    1 John 3:24--King James Version (KJV)
    24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    John 14:21---King James Version (KJV)
    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    Does anyone care to engage the Biblical scriptures?

  19. #94
    alanmolstad
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    Im sure once you learn to quote the whole saying, that I might go over them with you.

    But until I see some proof that you know how to post the full quotation I will not .


    You can start by dropping back to Matt 19 and having a look at the rest of that story between the interaction of Jesus with the man who asked the question.

    Quote the rest of the story for a change.....

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Im sure once you learn to quote the whole saying, that I might go over them with you.

    But until I see some proof that you know how to post the full quotation I will not .


    You can start by dropping back to Matt 19 and having a look at the rest of that story between the interaction of Jesus with the man who asked the question.

    Quote the rest of the story for a change.....
    You mean the rest of the story where just keeping the commandments didn't help the young man? That he needed to give up all he had and sell it to the poor and follow Christ?

    This is a great example, he didn't do what Christ asked, but he clearly believed in him, do you think he was saved?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  21. #96
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    You mean the rest of the story where just keeping the commandments didn't help the young man?
    yes....doesnt help anyone as to the question of salvation.

    and yes, this kek part of the story seems to not be the part that one member here has trouble quoting?

    odd other members of our board find it easy to quote and others cant seem to find it no matter how many times they are requested to do so...

  22. #97
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    ..... do you think he was saved?
    When Jesus says you "lack" its a sign that you better take serious.


    My view is that the man is the same type that is talked about as here - "1Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you;


    you only need to follow Jesus, that is the only "work" that matters with the Father.
    It's all about a person believing,,,,this is why the Bible tells us we are saved by grace though FAITH, and not by works!

  23. #98
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    When Jesus says you "lack" its a sign that you better take serious.

    My view is that the man is the same type that is talked about as here - "1Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you;

    you only need to follow Jesus, that is the only "work" that matters with the Father.
    In faith alone theology--it isn't "following" Jesus Christ which brings salvation. That is LDS and Biblical theology--not faith alone theology.

    Faith alone theology has one being saved prior to following Jesus--salvation, in faith alone theology-- is through a belief in Jesus, independent of any works--not a following of Jesus.

    Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

  24. #99
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    In faith alone theology-]
    according to the Bible, we are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.


    So we are saved by grace though faith alone, but our faith is never alone...for we are saved to do good works...yet they are not our works but rather are God's works that are worked in this world though us.

    So we are not saved by faith.
    We are not saved by works.
    We also are not saved by any combination of faith and works.



    any questions?

  25. #100
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    So we are saved by grace though faith alone, but our faith is never alone..any questions?
    Yes.

    If it is never alone--could you explain for us what one adds to faith in obtaining salvation--in faith alone theology?

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