Mormons can't find ONE THING smith 'restored.'

[Phoenix]

Like I said, comments were requested, and my comment was that there is a striking similarity.

Some people say that similarities between book of mormon verses and Bible verses are proof of plagiarism.

Comments on THAT?

[alanmolstad]

I dont know what you are referring to about the Book of Mormon, but I do know that you cant say that the post in question was "plagiarism" because it's not....so you have failed to win that argument with me.

How much does the post have to be like another post before I should say, "That's clear plagiarism !"?



To me, personally I would have to see where a post went on and on, copying word for word of another work before I would say the thing was plagiarism.

Now regardless of what we are talking about,(The post in question or the Book of Mormon) if you can point to something that is clearly word for word taken out of something else?...then that would be correctly called "plagiarism"


I think there has been enough case law on the books to know how to define the term as used in a court of law....

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I dont know what you are referring to about the Book of Mormon,

Then I guess there is a lot you haven't yet learned about the field of antimormonism. Accusations that "joe smith" plagiarized verses from the Bible, or from other books such as shakespeare, have been hurled for well over 100 years I think, but especially in the past couple of decades.

but I do know that you cant say that the post in question was "plagiarism" because it's not..

But I can say it seems like plagiarism. Can't I? Because that is what I actually said. I didn't say the post in question was plagiarism. I am pretty sure I can say that.

so you have failed to win that argument with me.

Since I never made that argument, I guess you are right. It is indeed hard to win an argument that a person didn't ever make.

How much does the post have to be like another post before I should say, "That's clear plagiarism !"?

One site I consulted says this:

"Yale views plagiarism as the "... use of another's work, words, or ideas without attribution," which includes "... using a source's language without quoting, using information from a source without attribution, and paraphrasing a source in a form that stays too close to the original."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

To me, personally I would have to see where a post went on and on, copying word for word of another work before I would say the thing was plagiarism.

But to another person personally, they wouldn't have to do that. I wasn't trying to convince you personally of anything anyway, at least until you ****ed into the conversation. My response was to the poster called "Christian." It was he who asked for comments, so I obliged him and made one.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Like I said, comments were requested, and my comment was that there is a striking similarity.

Some people say that similarities between book of mormon verses and Bible verses are proof of plagiarism.

Comments on THAT?

It was not plagiarized, because it is the same person. This is why I said in my other post that he never learns. He spams the other forums with this same argument, and I give him the same answers every time.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by theway

It was not plagiarized, because it is the same person. This is why I said in my other post that he never learns. He spams the other forums with this same argument, and I give him the same answers every time.

Ah, thank you for that info. And you are of course correct--it wouldn't be plagiarism if you post your own rantings in multiple paces.

[alanmolstad]

If a post is word for word.....or if there is a clear sign that a text was copied with small changes that clearly were added...then we might have a legal case against the author...


I have not actually looked into the matter of the book of Mormon being a plagiarism of some other book, but I will do a GOOGLE search and see if Walter martin has any position on the topic....

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Why should we believe YOURS and not THEIRS were chosen by Jesus?

I don't care what you believe. However, even if one of the splinter groups had the real apostles, that still precludes your cult from being Christ's church.

Then why can't you find CHAPTER AND VERSE where GOD ever said so?

You ***ume that I can't. Apostles were chosen after the original 12. You should really read the New Testament sometime.

I have, many times.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're all talk, no substance.

Since Jesus Christ is part of the SAME SENTENCE and SAME SUBJECT, then you MUST (according to your own misinterpretation of this p***age) have a LIVE AND PHYSICALLY MORTAL 'jesus' hiding in your cellar somewhere.

False.

[Christian]

erunder posted:
I don't care what you believe. However, even if one of the splinter groups had the real apostles, that still precludes your cult from being Christ's church.

The TRUTH is that Jesus didn't set HIS church up to be led by physically alive Apostles every century. Joey smith lied to you.

Then why can't you find CHAPTER AND VERSE where GOD ever said so?

You ***ume that I can't. Apostles were chosen after the original 12. You should really read the New Testament sometime.

IF YOU COULD, you would have, long ago. But NOT ONE WORD IN SCRIPTURE says that physically alive Apostles must be in the leadership of the church in every century.

Of course Judas was replaced and Paul was called by Jesus.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're all talk, no substance.

Just more blah blah blah from you I see. I have made a case you cannot disprove. You know it so you have no substance to refute it with.

Since Jesus Christ is part of the SAME SENTENCE and SAME SUBJECT, then you MUST (according to your own misinterpretation of this p***age) have a LIVE AND PHYSICALLY MORTAL 'jesus' hiding in your cellar somewhere.

False.

You HAVE to (without any SUBSTANCE) CLAIM that you don't need to abide by the WHOLE SENTENCE because YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T SUPPORT there being a physically alive JESUS CHRIST existing in your church along with your physically alive 'apostles.' YOU HAVE to relegate the "Jesus part' of the sentence to somewhere else since you cannot support WHAT IT SAYS.

You are all talk and no substance, certainly! That and some hot air. . .

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

I invite all who wish to know the truth to look up the words Abraham's Bosom and Hades (Hades was translated Hell in this verse) in a good bible dictionary or commentary (do not use an Evangelical one they are biased)

Of course, you want us to use an 'unbiased' MORMO dictionary! Sorry, but REAL linguists translate from REAL TEXTS. They don't stare at rocks in their hat (like joey smith did when he supposedly 'translated' the bom) or use fake funeral papyrus to make up stories around (such as the pgp 'book of abraham' that has been so solidly debunked as fraudulant).

Sorry way, but your desire not to use CHRISTIAN dictionaries because they are 'biased' shows who YOU serve. . .and it isn't Jesus Christ.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

Jesus didn't set HIS church up to be led by physically alive Apostles every century.

Of course he did.

IF YOU COULD, you would have, long ago.

Hardly. The thread isn't that old. Besides, the New Testatment writers took care of it long ago.

Of course Judas was replaced and Paul was called by Jesus.[/COLOR]

You HAVE to (without any SUBSTANCE) CLAIM that you don't need to abide by the WHOLE SENTENCE because YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T SUPPORT there being a physically alive JESUS CHRIST existing in your church along with your physically alive 'apostles.' YOU HAVE to relegate the "Jesus part' of the sentence to somewhere else since you cannot support WHAT IT SAYS.

And yet I don't. Hmm...

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000FF]Of course, you want us to use an 'unbiased' MORMO dictionary! Sorry, but REAL linguists translate from REAL TEXTS. They don't stare at rocks ...

The ancient Israelites used stones to receive revelation. Ever heard of the Urim and Thummim?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I dont know what you are referring to about the Book of Mormon, .

I have been looking at a few things as of late as I went over my posts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrU1ut0hmXc


From the new information Im starting to get a better understanding of the foundation of Mormonism....

[alanmolstad]

the Walter Martin forum seems to be cooking right along now....and so I don't tend to post much when I see there is no real need for me , nor a topic that really is on interest to me.
However I bet the fact the this forum is still going with new posts every day must tick-off that one CARM Mormon who showed up here after he was banned and tried to get away with breaking the rules here too by saying that without his posts this place would die...

[theway]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

the Walter Martin forum seems to be cooking right along now....and so I don't tend to post much when I see there is no real need for me , nor a topic that really is on interest to me.
However I bet the fact the this forum is still going with new posts every day must tick-off that one CARM Mormon who showed up here after he was banned and tried to get away with breaking the rules here too by saying that without his posts this place would die...

<Translation>
I've been embarr***ed so many times whenever the Mormon Posters come back here that I will now hide myself in the fetal position somewhere where I can not be questioned.

Also, that Poster you are talking about is me. However you will not say who it is because you claimed to put me on your ignore list and you are pretending that you are unable to see my posts......... Busted!

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Yes, I have a comment: It seems like you have plagiarized a rant that an antiMormon dude at carm has been spamming the antimormon forum with. Here is an example of the striking similarities between your rant and "morefish's" rant:

STILL no complete apostasy of Jesus' church

No lost scriptures
No lost authority to preach/teach/speak for/act for God
NOTHING of essential value lost from THE ORIGINAL church that Jesus built, the one that has lasted just fine for about 2,000 years now.

And no need for joey smith to 'restore' anything at all. (Of course he never really 'restored' anything at all, he just MADE UP a bunch of junk).

Comments?

That is all I want to comment on at this time. Thanks for asking.

I don't need to 'plagarize' anything. The TRUTH is

NO complete apostasy of Jesus' church
NO lost scriptures
NO lost authority by CHRIST'S church to speak or act for God; CHRIST'S church has been alive and well for about 2,000 years now

NO need for joey smith to 'restore' anything at all.

NOTHING that ever existed in the 1st century church ever 'lost' then 'restored by joey' at all.

No need to 'plagarize' when quoting the Bible.
No need to 'plagarize' when simply telling the TRUTH.

But then, you seem to have a problem with that.

BTW, is your REAL Name 'Phoenix?' What name do you post under over at CARM? Same name, or different name?

I'm curious. Do you use multiple names in multiple places to describe yourself?

[Christian]

phoenix posted:
Then I guess there is a lot you haven't yet learned about the field of antimormonism. Accusations that "joe smith" plagiarized verses from the Bible, or from other books such as shakespeare, have been hurled for well over 100 years I think, but especially in the past couple of decades.

I didn't know there was a 'field' of 'antimormonism.' "joe smith' was the guy's name, and most likely he was called that all of his life by friends and foes alike. Maybe even by his own parents. To whine when Christians call him that demonstrates the weakness of your own positions.

For you to suggest that I 'plagarized' from someone else because my posts are SIMILAR to posts elsewhere demonstrates your own ignorance.

Arguments against heretics have been the same from the first heretics (nearly 2,000 years ago) up to today. They lied, they plagarized, they contradicted. . .and they all did, including joe smith. There is nothing 'new' here. Just Christians exposing the foibles of heretics.
<snip>

But to another person personally, they wouldn't have to do that. I wasn't trying to convince you personally of anything anyway, at least until you ****ed into the conversation. My response was to the poster called "Christian." It was he who asked for comments, so I obliged him and made one.

And it was appreciated, even though it was thoroughly re****ed.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by KruAthApoloRelia

Do you, Morefish?

Do YOU Morefish?

I ****pie fish mostly. Sometimes I b*** fish.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Christian

I ****pie fish mostly. Sometimes I b*** fish.

That would explain the "trolling" in multiple forums, using "****pie" anti-LDS propaganda....

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

That would explain the "trolling" in multiple forums, using "****pie" anti-LDS propaganda....

But your 'fishers of men' descriptions would be lacking or faulty.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

<Translation>
I've been embarr***ed so many times whenever the Mormon Posters come back here that I will now hide myself in the fetal position somewhere where I can not be questioned.

Also, that Poster you are talking about is me. However you will not say who it is because you claimed to put me on your ignore list and you are pretending that you are unable to see my posts......... Busted!

He likely put you in his ignore list because you were dishonest with him. Being in his ignore list doesn't mean he never peeks. That is why there is a 'peeker' link to the posts in that ignore window.

As for the mormon posters causing fear in ANYONE, that is so FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNY! That is like saying a tiny fuzzy little bunnyrabbit is 'scary!'

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Christian

NOT ONE THING that joey smith ever really restored.

NOT ONE SINGLE MORMON-SPECIFIC THING that joey didn't invent himself.

NOT ONE.

Comments?

STILL nothing that smith really 'restored' that anyone actually believed in the original church. NOTHING but NEW INVENTIONS from the mormons.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

STILL nothing that smith really 'restored' that anyone actually believed in the original church.

Bingo!!!!!

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Bingo!!!!!

No deberrie, nobody in the original church played Bingo! Nobody believed Jesus was a 'spirit-brother-to-satan' either. Nobody believed in baptism for the dead, going to three 'glories' when they died, or in any prophet, seer, peepstone gazers who 'magically' look at rocks to 'translate' junk either.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

Nobody believed in baptism for the dead,

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

going to three 'glories' when they died,

1 Corinthians 15:40---King James Version (KJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

or in any prophet, seer, peepstone gazers who 'magically' look at rocks to 'translate' junk either.

http://www.gotquestions.org/urim-thummim.html

Question: "What were the Urim and Thummim?"

Answer: The Urim ("lights") and Thummim ("perfections") were gemstones that were carried by the high priest of Israel on the ephod / priestly garments. They were used by the high priest to determine God's will in some situations. Some propose that God would cause the Urim and Thummim to light up in varying patterns to reveal His decision. Others propose that the Urim and Thummim were kept in a pouch and were engraved with symbols identifying yes / no and true / false.

It is unclear whether the Urim and Thummim were on, by, or in the high priest's ephod. No one knows the precise nature of the Urim and Thummim or exactly how they were used. The Bible simply does not give us enough information. References to the Urim and Thummim are rare in the Bible. They are first mentioned in the description of the breastplate of judgment (Exodus 28:30; Leviticus 8:8). When Joshua succeeded Moses as leader over Israel, he was to receive answers from God by means of the Urim through Eleazar the high priest (Numbers 27:21). The Urim and Thummim are next mentioned in Moses' dying blessing upon Levi (Deuteronomy 33:8). The following Scriptures likely also speak of the Urim and Thummim: Joshua 7:14-18; 1 Samuel 14:37-45; and 2 Samuel 21:1.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/urim-thu...#ixzz3Wp4G4aZS

[Christian]

[QUOTE=dberrie2000;162313]

Originally Posted by Christian Nobody believed in baptism for the dead,

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

NO CHRISTIANS believed in it. IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE TEXT AROUND THIS VERSE so you would KNOW THE CONTEXT, those who were doing that were NON-CHRISTIANS who did NOT believe Jesus had been resurrected.

NO CHRISTIANS did it. The pronouns are "they" and "them," NOT "we" or "us." The mormon religion has lied to you and you have been suckered into it.

going to three 'glories' when they died,

1 Corinthians 15:40---King James Version (KJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Joey smith didn't know the difference between nouns and adjectives. "Glory" is an adjective meaning 'splendor' or 'beauty.' It is NOT A PLACE.

NO CHRISTIAN ANYWHERE BELIEVED YOU WENT TO any "glory." They all believed in one "heaven" where people went.

or in any prophet, seer, peepstone gazers who 'magically' look at rocks to 'translate' junk either.

your peepstone gazer, rock in the hat treasure finder false prophet made up a bunch of junk, just as he did when he pretended to 'translate' a common funeral papari to a pretended 'book of abraham' that has been proven to be false.

Your conman 'prophet' was a conman, and YOU HAVE BEEN CONNED.

I pray for your lost soul.