The FIRST LDS Apologist (Part 1)

[alanmolstad]

so what shall we say about a person's works then in connection to their faith, for we know that a faith without works is dead?

The answer is like this:
"Works" are like the nice smell that fills the kitchen when my mom used to make us kids cookies.
The smell told us that our mother was baking cookies,and we kids could tell by the strength of the smell filling the house how close the first batch were to being done.

The "smell" of the cookies is a lot like the "works" that flow from our "Faith".

The smell does not "cause" the cookies.....you don't run around with a spray bottle of cookies perfume and then expect to find a fresh batch of cookies in the oven...LOL

But the smell CONFIRMS the fact that mom has made us cookies....the smell is CAUSED by the cookies.

What if there is no smell?.....the answer is just like the Bible says if you have no works, it means your faith does not live...just as no smell means no cookies...

[alanmolstad]

so what does this all mean in the real world?

it means we should only center our life around the faith we share in Christ...

It means that the works the Christian Church does are what naturally flow from our faith...
The works are an after-effect of our changed lives.

They are caused by our faith...

Works might confirm our faith, but that cant alone save us or anyone else..
This is why the Christian church must be very clear in telling the lost that they dont have to 'do"something to be saved...they only have to "believe in someone"

Works will come...for you cant stop them from being part of our life.

But you got to be careful not to raise up your works to the point where you think that it was the works that saved you, or kept you saved....

For they cant.

Works cant save you at all....works dont mean squat in that score.

But works can be an important part of your Christian walk if you allow your faith out to be shared with the world...
This is why Christ talked about you lives being like a lamp....you can hide a lamp under a basket and not allow it to be seen, or you can bring the lamp out where people can see it...

That is how we are to look and view our own works.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Is anyone going to address the scriptures?

I tried eating only one Lay's potato chip. . .I couldn't stop at one.

[John T]

Originally Posted by Christian

I tried eating only one Lay's potato chip. . .I couldn't stop at one.

FYI:
This is one reason why I no longer post here

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

The bible says we are saved by grace though faith. ..and not by any works at all....

So your answer is this...to believe...that's all.

You might want to relate that to Christ and Paul:


John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation.

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Romans 2:5-11--King James Version (KJV)
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

We are saved and forgiven when we believe in the Son that The Lord has sent.

IOW--repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins--is just a big lie?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[alanmolstad]

the answer is the thief on the cross...
he received salvation ... for he was saved just like all men are saved...By GRACE thought Faith...

Not by going under water.....for all the water in all the seas can not wash away a single sin...

...not by doing works...
not by climbing a mountain...
not by signing a song...
not by paying a gift...

But only by grace though faith...


thats it.....no other way to be saved....

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Not by going under water.....for all the water in all the seas can not wash away a single sin...

Could you explain for us how that somehow covers up or cancels out the fact the scriptures have God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins to them that repent and are water baptized?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Could you relate to us how you fit that into a faith alone theology?

[Berean]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you explain for us how that somehow covers up or cancels out the fact the scriptures have God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins to them that repent and are water baptized?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Could you relate to us how you fit that into a faith alone theology?

Nonsense

In context they agree wholeheartedly.

Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
* John 6:28-29

As your scriptures also teach.

D&C 76 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

Mosiah 5:7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.4, p.264
From these statements, and from many others that might be quoted, it is clear that Adam and Christ are two persons-not the same Person. It is erroneous doctrine to consider them one and the same person, for Jesus is the Christ, a member of the Trinity, the God-head, and to whom Adam, the father of the human family upon this earth, is amenable. Adam will have to account for his stewardship to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose blood atones for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam.
James R. Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.6, p.236

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Could you explain for us how that somehow covers up or cancels out the fact the scriptures have God extending His salvational grace of the remission of sins to them that repent and are water baptized?

Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Could you relate to us how you fit that into a faith alone theology?

Originally Posted by Berean

Nonsense

In context they agree wholeheartedly.

Could anyone here explain how repentance and water baptism--for God's grace of the remission of sins--somehow fits a theology which preaches obtaining salvation ---excluding all works?

Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.