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Thread: CULTS, and their types.

  1. #1
    alanmolstad
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    Default CULTS, and their types.

    I was reading on the message board, and I started to remember some things from long ago I have share on here..


    "There are for the most part, 2 types of CULTS in the world.
    There are CULTS that are run by some type of organization.
    And there are CULTS that are run by a single all-powerful guy, who controls people under him.

    The 1st type we can look to the JWs to see what they are like.

    The 2nd type we can look to groups like the one run by David Koresh.

    Now the deal with CULTS that run by a David Koresh or a Charles Manson is that sooner or later its normal for them to start getting younger and younger girls into their bed.
    It's actually one of the outward signs of being in a CULT if you notice that the person who is the head of the religion, who represents God's revelation to you, starts to invite other women to his bed....

    As far as I know, sooner or later it always comes down to....."bed, bed, bed"

    They even do this openly as part of their religion.

    If questioned about the correctness of sexually molesting a 11 or 12 year old girl the leader of a CULT normally says "It's God's Command!"

    and the girls believe this
    and even their parents believe this

    Everyone in the CULT can totally believe this too.

    "It's God's Command...."is what they are all told, and they all believe it.

    If a person truly believes 100% that God has commanded the sexually molesting of infants and small children, how does a normal person of faith start to convince them different?

    What type of religious/moral foundation is there that you can stand on as you attempt to convince a parent that it is not God's command that they allow their own children to be so abused?

    The sad part in this, is that the example Im talking about here is not just hypothetical....it has happened, heck just look at the sad case of Elizabeth Smart.

    The little girl was raped by woman's husband,. while that wife ***umed this was "God's Command" and did not lift a finger to stop it.

    How do you convince a person that it was not God's command, when by their own actions that have more than proved that they are 100% convinced it was god's command?


    What do you say to a person that is completely convinced that they are listening to the one true God Almighty commanding them to turn over children to be sexually abused by the leader of their religion?

    What are you going to say to them?
    Are you going to stand there and tell them to "Pray about it"......NO!.....You are going to have to try a bit harder than that my friends...

    But what do you base your counter argument on?


    ------------------------

    I deal a lot with the outreach to the CULTS, mostly reaching out to members of, or people with family in the JWs.

    The JWs dont believe in the same God I do.
    The JWs dont believe in the same Jesus as I do.
    The JWs dont believe in the same resurrection that I do, or in the same Kingdom of God that I do, nor in the idea as to who goes to heaven and who will not.

    So clearly the JWs are a different religion.

    yet, when Im called to go speak to a JW that is meeting with a family in my church and I'm seeking to help this JW find the true Jesus, I have to find some type of foundation where I can stand on.....

    I use the bible.
    The Bible is my foundation.
    I base my message, on only what I can see the Bible teaching.

    The person inside the CULT is not so limited in what they can use to support their views.
    They can invent things
    They can lie
    They can write their own version of the bible, and change it to fit their views.
    They can come up with a different bible, or have a single guy in charge of doctrine or organization that interprets God's Commands for them.
    They can appeal to dreams as their final authority.
    Or to personal opinions.
    or to lucky dice.

    There is no limit to things the person in the CULT can use to serve as their support for their teachings.



    I only am allowed to use the bible.


    The person in the CULT says "God told them to molest children"

    My counter argument is centered only with the text of the bible.
    My argument against their God, is based on what the bible teaches us about the nature of God.


    In many ways this does put me at a disadvantage.
    for they can say, "God told me so, I know it was the real God and I trust God 100%"
    If the person is claiming a real personal revelation its hard for me to say "It never happened", because they are clearly convinced that '"something" did happen.

    all I can say to counter that is that , "The God of the Bible would not say such a thing, nor could say such a thing"
    It's the same logic as is found in our conclusions when we had a look at the question, If God is all powerful, can he make a rock so big he cant lift it? The answer in both situations is that God can not do something that runs counter to His nature, as given to us in the Bible's revelation of Him.

    That is the answer....


    it would not really matter how sure they were that it was truly God that told them to do such evil things against children.

    My argument against them has to be based out of the text, and has to center around the Bible's teachings about the nature of God...and that god can not act counter to this revelation that is already given.


    I understand that the person in the CULT is absolutely convinced they they heard God speak to them.
    I understand that they are 100% sure that it was God that told them to do these things, and to believe these things...
    .

    All I can do is show them that whatever they heard and no matter how convinced they are it was of god, , it could not be of God of the Bible, for it runs counter to the revelation we have of God in the Bible."





    So Alan, in the real world how does this work out when talking to a Mormon or a Moonie or any of the many other religions that claim to be "Christian" ?

    My answer to that question is that , While it would be nice to be able to sit down with a member of a CULT and show them via magic paperwork and magic videos, that they did not hear the true God speak to them, in most cases it's a little late for that effort.
    Most of the time the person trapped in a CULT has put all of their trust in the testimony of the long-dead CULT's leader and his claim to have received a message from the One true god.
    It's a little late for trying to convince anyone that their dead leader didnt receive a vision.....

    All I can do is show by the scriptures that their dead leader's revelation runs counter to the bible's revelation, and that the bible teaches us that God can not ever say even one word that goes against what He has already revealed to us in the scriptures.

    The Bible is not man's interpretation of God's revelations
    The Bible IS GOD"S revelation to man.
    The Bible is GOD's Word....
    Thus there is ZERO CHANCE that any future revelations from God will go against the revelation we have already received from that same Lord...

    So it doesn't matter how sure I am that God is speaking to me
    If the revelation is in disagreement with God's revelation?, Then it's the wrong god!........ "

  2. #2
    alanmolstad
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    I wrote the above in answer to a Mormon who started a topic where he said that if God ever asked him to kill his wife, he would do it!

    He was very proud of the fact that if he believed he heard God tell him to kill his wife that he would not even hesitate to slay her.




    My answer was that if you think you hear a god say that to you, that you are actually listening to the wrong god.

    The typical response I get is that Abraham was told to kill his son, and so to the Mormon this is like their get out of jail card, its a way that he believed he could get away from a moral responsibility standpoint if he ever was found to have killed his wife, for all he needed to do is say, "God told me to" and then point to Abraham.

    My answer to that is to point out that Abraham said to his son "“God will provide a sheep for the burnt offering, my son,”

    "will provide" is different than saying "has provided"

    Abraham clearly knew that regardless of what he had been told, God would not ask us to kill our own child.
    He clearly knew that God would provide a sheep, although it seems clear he did not know how this would be done....yet he had faith that god is good...and that asking a father to kill a son is wrong,yet he was asked to do that, thus- therefore Abraham had faith that somehow a sheep would appear...for God cant really act in a wrong manner regardless to how things may appear to us at the time...

    For God is good,,,,,,God is only good

    he knew God could not be wrong, thus there had to be a sheep to appear.


    as one did....


    Therefore, the story of Abraham and his son can not be used as a justification to support the idea that you can get away will killing your own wife......so the Mormon's argument is a fail.

  3. #3
    alanmolstad
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    The reason this is all so important?


    Its that fact that CULTS seem to always get to doing wrong things.

    The leader of a CULT always wants his followers to allow him to have sex with their children and wives......or to go kill people.....or to kill their own children and wives...and to kill themselves based on only his word.


    Sooner or later the leader of a CULT will try to sleep with someone besides his one wife.

    Sooner or later the leader of a CULT will ask his followers to kill .

    Sooner or later when trapped, the leader of a CULT never wants to die alone.

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