Grace and Works

[alanmolstad]

so as I said....there are two totally correct, yet different points of view, or in other words..To answer the question you have to tell people what way you are looking at the situation.

When you look at the situation from the "human" point of view then you answer it one way,,,and that way is to say that "No one knows the future,,,its all unknown ,,,and all can hear and repent and believe....

At the same time, when you look at the same situation from God's point of view that we see that in God's eyes, all this was finished before it was started.
no thing is by accident. Our salvation was always guaranteed from before the creation of the universe...

[Saxon]

so as I said....there are two totally correct, yet different points of view, or in other words..To answer the question you have to tell people what way you are looking at the situation.

When you look at the situation from the "human" point of view then you answer it one way,,,and that way is to say that "No one knows the future,,,its all unknown ,,,and all can hear and repent and believe....

At the same time, when you look at the same situation from God's point of view that we see that in God's eyes, all this was finished before it was started.
no thing is by accident. Our salvation was always guaranteed from before the creation of the universe...

Unfortunately there is nothing in the Bible that supports your “point of view”. The Bible does not give God’s point of view. We could not have any understanding of it whatsoever. Your finite mind and mine cannot hope to comprehend his infinite mind of God. (See Isaiah 55:8 and 9)

As for the Bible, God has inspired men to write to men so men could understand what the Lord has wanted us to understand. You would have me believe that if I am saved I was actually saved before the world was formed. This is blatantly untrue. (See John 3:7)

What is it to be born AGAIN? It is a second birth, born of the Spirit. With out the second birth there is no salvation. You were not saved until you were born again. Being born again cannot happen until you were born of a woman into the world that you are now living in. You were conceived in sin. (See Psalm 51:5) To be conceived is not the sin but you as the rest of the human race were born as a sinner, conceived in a world where all are sinners. You were not saved until you, by faith, believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Any other way of salvation is a lie.

There is no scripture that states that any one has been predestined to salvation. The scripture that is used to confirm that thought simply does not say that at all. Ephesians 1:3 to 6 clearly states that those that are IN CHRIST are blessed, chosen and predestinated. There is no mention of predestinated to salvation anywhere. Outside of Christ we were all lost sinners that are at enmity with God. (See James 4:4) In Christ we are blessed with all spiritual blessings. (See Ephesians 1:3 to 6) Your comment is total nonsense.



Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.