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Thread: The Gift

  1. #76
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Then why do you insist on something that is in contradiction to the Biblical NT?

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    In case you did not notice--God the Son is not included in the "one God" of the NT--ever.

    What is it about Psalm 82 you are in denial of?

    Psalm 82:1---King James Version (KJV)
    82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    Paul not only separated the "one God"--and God the Son--he also believed in the reality of another god:

    2 Corinthians 4:4---King James Version (KJV)
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Was Paul polytheistic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    You have no concept of the eternal God, Father Son and Holy Ghost being the one God.
    Obviously--that does nothing to explain why the NT writers always separated out God the Son from the "one God" of the NT.

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Ever?? You do not know the Bible.
    Then give us a NT quote where God the Son and the Holy Ghost were included in the "one God" of the NT. As the verses above point out--God the Son was separated out of the "one God"--every time.

    Who was the word that was with God and was God? He is the same word that was made flesh, and dwelt among us.
    God the Son. Again--God the Son was never included in the "one God" of the NT.

    There is nothing in Psalms 82 that I deny. What I deny is the idea that you are trying to make a case for the polytheistic idea of more than one God.
    Psalm 82:1 makes that case for us:

    Psalm 82:1---King James Version (KJV)
    82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    Ancient Israel believed in the Divine Council of the Gods. That, the scholars are in consensus of--includes OT writers.

    Are you saying the OT writers testified of a false belief?

    Paul was not a polytheist, see 1 Corinthians 8:4.

    Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

    Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

    Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

    1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
    The NT writers did not adopt the Deutero-Isaiah theology--and Paul did not include God the Son in the "one God"--which you are in denial of:

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Anyone who postulates God the Son had a God and Father, nor separated out Christ from the "one God"-- could never be labeled a Trinitarian:

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Jesus Christ was just exactly whom He claimed to be--the Son of God--both, as to His Spirit--and His Flesh.

  2. #77
    Saxon
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    Then give us a NT quote where God the Son and the Holy Ghost were included in the "one God" of the NT. As the verses above point out--God the Son was separated out of the "one God"--every time.
    There is only one God. The Father is identified as God. The Son is identified as God and the Holy Ghost is identified as God. There is only one God, therefore the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the one God. That is all in the New testament, look it up.



    God the Son. Again--God the Son was never included in the "one God" of the NT.
    The Bible says that there is only one God, so who was the word that was with God and was God? He is the same word that was made flesh, and dwelt among us.



    Psalm 82:1 makes that case for us:

    Psalm 82:1---King James Version (KJV)
    82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    Ancient Israel believed in the Divine Council of the Gods. That, the scholars are in consensus of--includes OT writers.

    Are you saying the OT writers testified of a false belief?
    The Bible says that there is only one God so all the non-understanding will not change that fact.

    You know that I am not saying that the Old Testament writers are testifying of a false belief. You are in error because you refuse to believe the Bible when it says that there is only one God.



    The NT writers did not adopt the Deutero-Isaiah theology--and Paul did not include God the Son in the "one God"--which you are in denial of:

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    Now you seem to imply that the Old Testament and the New Testament are teaching different theologies. Like I have been saying, you have no idea of what the Bible teaches.



    Anyone who postulates God the Son had a God and Father, nor separated out Christ from the "one God"-- could never be labeled a Trinitarian:

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Jesus Christ was just exactly whom He claimed to be--the Son of God--both, as to His Spirit--and His Flesh.
    You will know better than what you are now dispensing when you start to read the bible for what it is saying and not for what the LDS tell you it is saying

  3. #78
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    The Bible says that there is only one God so all the non-understanding will not change that fact.
    That is correct--and the NT writers identified who the "one God was:

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Where does one find God the Son--or God the Holy Ghost included in the "one God" of the NT?

    You know that I am not saying that the Old Testament writers are testifying of a false belief. You are in error because you refuse to believe the Bible when it says that there is only one God.
    That's what the NT writers testified to:

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    That only includes God the Father into the "one God" designation--even when God the Son is used in the same verse.

    Now you seem to imply that the Old Testament and the New Testament are teaching different theologies.
    Obviously--the NT writers did not adopt the Deutero-Isaiah theology. Anyone who separates out the "one God" as God the Father--and places God the Son into another designation can never fit the Deutero-Isaiah pattern, nor any Trinitarian theology.

    And traditional Judaism could never bear the weight of having God the Father and God the Son--it's pure polytheism to them. Any traditional Jew would call a Trinitarian theology a polytheistic theology.

    It can fit the Divine Council pattern of the OT writers, prior to the Deutero-Isaiah redactors:

    Psalm 82:1---King James Version (KJV)
    82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

  4. #79
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Anyone who postulates God the Son had a God and Father, nor separated out Christ from the "one God"-- could never be labeled a Trinitarian:

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Jesus Christ was just exactly whom He claimed to be--the Son of God--both, as to His Spirit--and His Flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    You will know better than what you are now dispensing when you start to read the bible for what it is saying and not for what the LDS tell you it is saying
    What is there about 1Peter1:3 are you claiming is what the LDS are telling me?

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    Was Paul and Christ LDS also?

  5. #80
    Saxon
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    You seem to ignore the rest of the Bible when convenient. You know, resort to Articles of Faith number 8.

  6. #81
    Saxon
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    I have given my answer to that already.

  7. #82
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    What is there about 1Peter1:3 are you claiming is what the LDS are telling me?

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    Was Paul and Christ LDS also?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    You seem to ignore the rest of the Bible when convenient. You know, resort to Articles of Faith number 8.
    What is it about the "rest of the Bible" that you believe does not agree with the above scriptures?

    Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

  8. #83
    Saxon
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    It is not the scriptures, it is you, using them not in the way the writers intended. You try to make them conform to LDS falsehoods.

  9. #84
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    It is not the scriptures, it is you, using them not in the way the writers intended. You try to make them conform to LDS falsehoods.
    Could you explain what you find false about any of the scriptures I posted--or what it is about them that defy LDS theology?

    It certainly defies faith alone theology.

    Saxon--your taint so!!! responses are neither convincing nor compelling.

    Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

  10. #85
    Saxon
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    Could you explain what you find false about any of the scriptures I posted--or what it is about them that defy LDS theology?
    There is nothing false about the scriptures themselves. The fact that you are trying to make them conform to the false LDS gospel is what I find to be the error.



    It certainly defies faith alone theology.
    I don’t hold to the “faith alone” theology as YOU see it so that statement is not helpful to your cause.



    Saxon--your taint so!!! responses are neither convincing nor compelling.
    That is because you are programmed to filter everything through LDS filters and of course you are forced to reject the truth for LDS false teachings.

  11. #86
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Could you explain what you find false about any of the scriptures I posted--or what it is about them that defy LDS theology?

    It certainly defies faith alone theology.

    Saxon--your taint so!!! responses are neither convincing nor compelling.

    Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    There is nothing false about the scriptures themselves.
    Then faith alone theology is false.

    I don’t hold to the “faith alone” theology as YOU see it so that statement is not helpful to your cause.
    Yes you do. Your theology is salvation through a faith without works. If you disagree--then please post us what works you add to faith for salvation.

    That is because you are programmed to filter everything through LDS filters and of course you are forced to reject the truth for LDS false teachings.
    Are you referring to these truths?

    Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

  12. #87
    Saxon
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    Yes you do. Your theology is salvation through a faith without works. If you disagree--then please post us what works you add to faith for salvation.
    How can I believe in Faith alone when I keep telling you that I do not believe that faith saves. For that matter grace does not save either. What saves anyone that is saved is God, and that is only because he has an at***ude of grace towards mankind. If any one believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, God saves that anyone because he wants to and because he loves us. There is nothing you can do to get saved.

    Why do you refuse to believe Ephesians 2:8 to 10 and are so willing to believe any verse, when taken out of context, that contradicts it???

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



    Are you referring to these truths?

    Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    The LDS do not know what the Bible is about, neither do you. Just because you have no idea what those verses are about is no reason for a Bible believer to fall into false teachings. The Bible is absolutely foreign to you and the LDS.

  13. #88
    Saxon
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    You obviously don't have a clue as to what dberrie is getting at. The NT teaches there is one God TO US, that's from Paul, and that is the Father. The scriptures don't say there no other gods period, there are just no other gods to us. The OT testifies to the plurality of gods as does the NT. Lord of lords and king of kings ring a bell? Who are these lords and kings? The exalted saints who become gods which, by the way, gaining eternal life is exactly what becoming a god is.
    No, it is obvious that dberrie doesn’t have a clue what the Bible is saying or getting at. Where does the “TO US” come from, it isn’t the Bible. Total drivel.

    You seem to know more than God does. He said that he doesn’t know any. He also said that there was no god before him and neither shall there be after him. Admit that you do not believe the Bible. There is no plurality of gods whatsoever. No one is going to become a god. That is a fairy tale.

    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

    Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

  14. #89
    Saxon
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    It doesn't come from the Bible? I thought it did. I guess I found this in a mother goose book:
    But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    This nursery rhyme, since you don't think it's in the Bible, says to us there is one God. Oh, then it separates the Father and the Son. Just saying.
    This is typical, you rip one verse out of context to make it imply that Paul is saying that there is more than one God. In 1 Corinthians 8:4, Paul makes it quite clear and unmistakable, unless you are willing to be totally dishonest in how you read, that there is none other God but one. 1 Corinthians 8:5 says that there be that are called gods. Being called gods doesn’t mean that it is a god. With Paul’s testimony in 1 Corinthians 8:4, stating that there is none other God but one, it is most obvious that Paul is not indicating that these “gods” that he is speaking of are in any way related to any notion that they should be construed to be a real God.

    To read 1 Corinthians 8:6 in the context that it is written and come up with the idea that Paul is indicating that “to us” should mean that we only serve one god and ignore the others, is a nursery rhyme/fairy tale. You are dishonest to the text, the whole Bible and to your selfe.

    1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
    1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.



    Nobody becomes gods? Then the scriptures lie about us gaining eternal life. To gain eternal life is to become a god. Please use scriptures in context. In this case, beside means equal to. Doesn't mean none others exist. Where does God say no other gods exist at all? Nowhere.
    Show me where the Bible, book, chapter and verse, that equates “eternal life” to becoming a god. John 17:3 states that eternal life is to know the only true God. 1 John 5:11 says that eternal life is in his Son. To have eternal life is to be “in Christ”, who is God, not to become a god, but to come to the only true God.

    The Bible says nothing about eternal life being related to the devilish idea that you can become a god. See Genesis 3:4 and 5 to see just where the idea that you can be a god comes from. Satan fed that morsel of lie to Eve and she ignored God and so did Adam and now we are all in sin until we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. You too have swallowed the same lie and support your heresy by ignoring the Bible for the futile belief that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.

    You ask me to use scriptures in context! You don’t know what that means judging from how you misuse the context of the Bible. What is the case that you are referring to that you insist that “beside” means equal to? (Book, chapter and verse)

    “Where does God say that no other God exists?” Try Isaiah 43:10, “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me”. Also Isaiah 44:8, “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any”. There is more but I am not going to be looking for you when the truth is that you really don’t want to know.

    John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

    Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

  15. #90
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Then faith alone theology is false.

    Yes you do. Your theology is salvation through a faith without works. If you disagree--then please post us what works you add to faith for salvation.

    Are you referring to these truths?

    Hebrews 1:1-9---King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
    4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Ephesians 1:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    1 Peter 1:3---King James Version (KJV)
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Corinthians 8:6--King James Version (KJV)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    How can I believe in Faith alone when I keep telling you that I do not believe that faith saves. For that matter grace does not save either. What saves anyone that is saved is God, and that is only because he has an at***ude of grace towards mankind. If any one believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, God saves that anyone because he wants to and because he loves us.
    The faith alone theology preaches one is saved through a faith without works--regardless of what you or anyone else believes.

    Sola fide---From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and some parts of the Restoration Movement.

    The doctrine of sola fide ***erts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith alone, excluding all "works".

    There is nothing you can do to get saved.
    Then you would consider this false doctrine?

    Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
    22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Matthew 7:19-21----King James Version (KJV)
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
    32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    1 Timothy 4:16King James Version (KJV)
    16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    1 John 1:7King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


    Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

  16. #91
    Berean
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    The faith alone theology preaches one is saved through a faith without works--regardless of what you or anyone else believes.
    And that is total nonsense, regardless of what you say. I have personally explained this to you myself, dozens and dozens of times and many others have done so as well. So you know better. The Bible is clear that works don't count towards your salvation but when you are saved you will have the desire to do good works. You have seen the Scriptures that prove this and every other false dilemma you present over and over again, many, many times. You never as much as acknowledge the Scriptures we post that absolutely prove you wrong, much less address them. This is intellectually dishonest. And continuing to stir the pot in this manner, is not only disingenuous, but points to a darkened heart with evil intent. Your heart is darkened because of your sin and until you turn from idol worship and to faith in Christ alone, the Bible insists the lake of fire is your eternal future.

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Sola fide---From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and some parts of the Restoration Movement.

    The doctrine of sola fide ***erts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith alone, excluding all "works".
    The Bible is my reference, for all things concerning Christian faith and practice, not Wikipedia. The Bible clearly teaches that that having faith alone is all the "works" one must perform to be saved. And evidence of that salvation is good works, not the other way around. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ... NOT of works. Eph 2:8-10.

    You know the drill. You've seen all the verses we post that prove you wrong. You probably have them memorized so you don't accidentally post one and **** your false argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Then you would consider this false doctrine?

    Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
    22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Matthew 7:19-21----King James Version (KJV)
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
    32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    1 Timothy 4:16King James Version (KJV)
    16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    1 John 1:7King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


    Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    Yes. This is clearly false doctrine as you espouse it, because these verses should be understood in light of the rest of the Scriptures. Especially the ones you keep avoiding because they prove your false dilemmas wrong.

  17. #92
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Then you would consider this false doctrine?

    Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
    22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Matthew 7:19-21----King James Version (KJV)
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
    32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    1 Timothy 4:16King James Version (KJV)
    16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    1 John 1:7King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


    Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


    Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View Post
    Yes. This is clearly false doctrine as you espouse it, because these verses should be understood in light of the rest of the Scriptures.
    But that is just the usual "taint so" response of those whose theology is violated by the posted scriptures.

    Care to address the above scriptures?

  18. #93
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post The faith alone theology preaches one is saved through a faith without works--regardless of what you or anyone else believes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View Post
    And that is total nonsense, regardless of what you say.
    Fair enough. Please list --what works the faith alone believe is needed for salvation to occur?

  19. #94
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post The faith alone theology preaches one is saved through a faith without works--regardless of what you or anyone else believes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View PostAnd that is total nonsense, regardless of what you say.
    Fair enough. Please list --what works the faith alone believe is needed for salvation to occur?

    Bump for anyone. This seems to be the standard reply of the faith alone theology. What works do the faith alone add to their faith to obtain salvation?

    If they do not add any acts of obedience to their faith in obtaining salvation--then they have a salvation through a faith without works:


    Sola fide---From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sola fide (Latin: by faith alone), also known as justification by faith alone, is a Christian theological doctrine that distinguishes most Protestant denominations from the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and some parts of the Restoration Movement.

    The doctrine of sola fide ***erts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith alone, excluding all "works".

    How does that collate with the Biblical NT witness?

    Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
    22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Matthew 7:19-21----King James Version (KJV)
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Acts 5:31-32---King James Version (KJV)
    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
    32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    1 Timothy 4:16--King James Version (KJV)
    16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    1 John 1:7--King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version (KJV)
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 22:14---King James Version (KJV)
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

  20. #95
    Saxon
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    Fair enough. Please list --what works the faith alone believe is needed for salvation to occur?

    Bump for anyone. This seems to be the standard reply of the faith alone theology. What works do the faith alone add to their faith to obtain salvation?

    If they do not add any acts of obedience to their faith in obtaining salvation--then they have a salvation through a faith without works:
    There is no works to list to obtain salvation. Salvation is a gift from God. Works that are required come after a person has salvation.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

  21. #96
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    There is no works to list to obtain salvation.
    Thanks, Saxon. Personally--I don't understand the reluctance of those of the faith alone theology to deny that, IE--

    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post The faith alone theology preaches one is saved through a faith without works--regardless of what you or anyone else believes.
    Originally Posted by Berean View Post And that is total nonsense, regardless of what you say.
    That is the usual response of the faith alone.

    Salvation is a gift from God. Works that are required come after a person has salvation.
    So--then these were saved previous to the remission of sins?

    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    Could you point us to where it states in there one is saved previous to any works? It states we are saved by grace, and not works.

    So--if you believe Paul was testifying works is not necessary for salvation to occur--could you explain this?

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

  22. #97
    Saxon
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    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    Could you point us to where it states in there one is saved previous to any works? It states we are saved by grace, and not works.
    Ephesians 2:8-9. Grace means it is not of works. Gift means that it is not of works. Not of works means not of works. It can’t be any clearer than that.

    You obviously have no understanding of Acts 2:38 as you seem to think that it is saying that a person is baptized to be saved. In the light of Ephesians 2:8-9 stating that salvation is an act of grace by God and that salvation is a gift of God and that salvation is not of works you are seriously deluded, or more to the point, you do not know what you are talking about. Acts 2:38 is saying that you should be baptized because of (for) the remission of sins. Baptism is to be done to those that have received salvation already. In Acts 8:36 to 38 the eunuch asked Philip; “what doth hinder me to be baptized?” Philip said that the eunuch had to believe with all his heart. Believing is what God requires of any person and God will save them by his grace and not of works. Baptism is for the saved.

    Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.



    So--if you believe Paul was testifying works is not necessary for salvation to occur--could you explain this?

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9--King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    That is what is going to happen to the ones that do not believe, the unsaved. Paul is not talking about the saved in your quote.

  23. #98
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Ephesians 2:8-9. Grace means it is not of works. Gift means that it is not of works. Not of works means not of works. It can’t be any clearer than that.
    Hi Saxon:

    No one is claiming eternal life is of works. It's of God's grace--that we can agree on.

    The next question, for me--is, who does God extend this grace of eternal life to, as a personal reception?

    Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Preaching a salvation through a faith without any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--- is the greatest lie satan has ever pawned upon mankind, IMO.

    You obviously have no understanding of Acts 2:38 as you seem to think that it is saying that a person is baptized to be saved.
    The scriptures testify repentance and water baptism is given for the remission of sins:

    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    So--were those of Acts2 saved prior to the remission of sins--or after?

    In the light of Ephesians 2:8-9 stating that salvation is an act of grace by God and that salvation is a gift of God and that salvation is not of works you are seriously deluded, or more to the point, you do not know what you are talking about. Acts 2:38 is saying that you should be baptized because of (for) the remission of sins.
    That is the claim of some to cover the fact the scriptures testify against them--but I find no translation which renders the translation as "because":


    New International Version
    Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    New Living Translation
    Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    English Standard Version
    And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Berean Study Bible
    Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Berean Literal Bible
    And Peter says to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    New American Standard Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    King James Bible
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    International Standard Version
    Peter answered them, "Every one of you must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

    NET Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    New Heart English Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    And Shimeon said to them, “Return to God and be immersed everyone of you, in the name of THE LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua, for release from sin, so that you may receive the gift of The Spirit of Holiness.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    Peter answered them, "All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

    New American Standard 1977
    And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each one of you into the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    King James 2000 Bible
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    American King James Version
    Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    American Standard Version
    And Peter'said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    English Revised Version
    And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Weymouth New Testament
    "Repent," replied Peter, "and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, with a view to the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    World English Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Young's Literal Translation
    and Peter said unto them, 'Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,

    Saxon--all of those translations are looking forward--not behind.

  24. #99
    Saxon
    Guest

    Default

    No one is claiming eternal life is of works. It's of God's grace--that we can agree on.
    That is strange, you are constantly arguing that works is required for salvation. The only way that a person can have “eternal life” is to obtain salvation. Salvation and eternal life are synonymous. Is this another point that you do not know what you are talking about?? I think so.



    The next question, for me--is, who does God extend this grace of eternal life to, as a personal reception?
    Here is another point that you seem to be void of knowing what you are talking about. What do you mean by GRACE? Your question is not understandable
    Grace is not eternal life. Eternal life comes BY grace through faith, not of works.



    Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Preaching a salvation through a faith without any acts of obedience to Jesus Christ--- is the greatest lie satan has ever pawned upon mankind, IMO.
    It is only the saved that will obey Christ. The lost do not obey Christ. Therefore, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Salvation comes first then those that are saved are the ones that obey.

    What the LDS teach is the greatest lie Satan has ever pawned upon mankind. Since when is a gift worked for or earned?



    The scriptures testify repentance and water baptism is given for the remission of sins:

    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    So--were those of Acts2 saved prior to the remission of sins--or after?
    Now that is a totally ignorant question. There is no one saved without the remission of sin. The question should be, when does the remission of sin occur? It can’t happen before salvation and it is already there after salvation, so it has to happen at the same moment as salvation.

    That is the claim of some to cover the fact the scriptures testify against them--but I find no translation which renders the translation as "because":
    Try the Amplified Version.

    AMP Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent [change your old way of thinking, turn from your sinful ways, accept and follow Jesus as the Messiah] and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



    New International Version
    Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    New Living Translation
    Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    English Standard Version
    And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Berean Study Bible
    Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Berean Literal Bible
    And Peter says to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    New American Standard Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    King James Bible
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    International Standard Version
    Peter answered them, "Every one of you must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

    NET Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    New Heart English Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    And Shimeon said to them, “Return to God and be immersed everyone of you, in the name of THE LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua, for release from sin, so that you may receive the gift of The Spirit of Holiness.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    Peter answered them, "All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

    New American Standard 1977
    And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each one of you into the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    King James 2000 Bible
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    American King James Version
    Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    American Standard Version
    And Peter'said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    English Revised Version
    And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Weymouth New Testament
    "Repent," replied Peter, "and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, with a view to the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    World English Bible
    Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Young's Literal Translation
    and Peter said unto them, 'Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,

    Saxon--all of those translations are looking forward--not behind.
    Most of the translations say the same thing, “for” (because of; see the amplified Bible) They all are looking to baptism because of the salvation that they have already received, except for a few paraphrase versions which are just someone’s personal opinion.

    You can’t have it both ways. Salvation is gained without works or it is gained through works. The Bible is clear that it is NOT OF WORKS.

  25. #100
    dberrie2000
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    What do you mean by GRACE? Your question is not understandable
    Grace is not eternal life. Eternal life comes BY grace through faith, not of works.
    That's still grace.

    So--is the remission of sins God's grace?

    Acts 2:38---King James Version (KJV)
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    It is only the saved that will obey Christ.
    If the scriptures are true--then it's only those who obey Christ which will be saved:

    2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version (KJV)
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


    The lost do not obey Christ.
    That's the reason they are lost.

    Therefore, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. Salvation comes first then those that are saved are the ones that obey.
    That's not the sequence of the scripture. It has eternal life going to them which obey:


    Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

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