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Thread: Belive And Be Saved

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    Default Belive And Be Saved

    The following Bible scriptures tell you to believe and be saved. There is no works or baptism involved with getting saved. Just believe.


    Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

    John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

    Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
    1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
    Last edited by Saxon; 06-13-2015 at 06:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    The following Bible scriptures tell you to believe and be saved. There is no works involved with getting saved. Just believe.


    Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

    John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
    Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

    Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
    1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
    Hi Saxon:

    One question:

    Is that belief a faith without works--in your theology?

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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    Hi Saxon:

    One question:

    Is that belief a faith without works--in your theology?

    James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    Always the same question!

    In the context of James 2:26, faith is always associated with works. The works that show up with faith is to show men that there is faith at work in the believer. This is not in order to be saved but because a person with faith in God will always have a work associated with faith.

    The works that James is speaking to, is not a work to gain salvation as it is most obvious that Ephesians 2:8 to 10 states that salvation is a gift of God by grace through faith and it is NOT of works. It is also stated that works are for those that are in Christ Jesus, the saved.

    The definition of faith in Hebrews 1:1 has two parts to it. First, the substance of things hoped for, is the believe part and the second, the evidence of things not seen is the working part. The starving man sitting at a table can believe that if he eats and drinks the food and drink that is on the table he will live but if he does not put his belief to work by eating he will die. The substance of the thing hoped for was the food and drink and the evidence of the thing not seen is eating of the food. Faith without works is dead.

    When do Mormons actually get saved? Is it before physical death or after physical death?

    James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    The following Bible scriptures tell you to believe and be saved. There is no works involved with getting saved. Just believe.
    Okay. Mormons believe, so we must be saved, right?

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    Okay. Mormons believe, so we must be saved, right?
    That depends on who you believe in. Is it Jesus the creator of everything that was created, or Jesus, the spirit brother of Lucifer?

    The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.

    I have to go on record that I believe that the Bible is totally correct and the Mormon stand on this point is a fatal error.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    From https://www.lds.org/ensign/1986/06/i...stion?lang=eng
    How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?
    Jess L. Christensen, Institute of Religion director at Utah State University, Logan, Utah. On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to someóespecially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel ďwho was in authority in the presence of God,Ē a ďson of the morning.Ē (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25Ė27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Luciferís older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    That depends on who you believe in. Is it Jesus the creator of everything that was created, or Jesus, the spirit brother of Lucifer?

    The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator.
    Okay, so we've gone from "believe and be saved" to "believe that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created AND that Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator, and be saved." Is there anything else we need to add to the list?

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    Okay, so we've gone from "believe and be saved" to "believe that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created AND that Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator, and be saved." Is there anything else we need to add to the list?
    The only list is in your imagination. What we have is two different beliefs as to who Jesus is. Your Jesus, of the Mormon belief is one god among a large multitude of gods and is the spirit brother of Lucifer. The Jesus of the Bible is one God and beside him there is no other god. He is the creator of all that was and is created. (See Isaiah 45:18 and John 1:1 to 3) We have to believe that if one is true then the other is false.

    What the Bible says is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. (See Acts 16:30 and 31) We have to pick one because they are obviously different. So there is no list as you have imagined. We are back to "believe and be saved".

    Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
    Isaiah 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.

    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any

    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    The only list is in your imagination.
    I have visited the home pages of some Evangelical churches, and they have lists of requirements for becoming a Christian. Some of those lists contain 5-10 things they teach that a person MUST do if he wants to be a Christian.

    Are you saying those Evangelical churches are just in Erundur's imagination? Since I am the one claiming to have seen those lists, are you saying that I, too, only exist in Erundur's imagination?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    The only list is in your imagination.
    Okay, so now we don't have to believe that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created and that Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator to be saved.


    Your Jesus, of the Mormon belief is one god among a large multitude of gods and is the spirit brother of Lucifer.
    This is a lie.

    What the Bible says is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
    Mormons believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, so we must be saved, right?

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    Okay, so now we don't have to believe that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created and that Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator to be saved.
    We are not compelled to believe doctrine in order to be saved, you as a Mormon might have to. As a Bible believer I only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and I am saved.

    How about commenting on the differences between the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Mormon teaching?



    This is a lie.
    Donít leave me hanging, tell me why it is a lie. Have Mormons suddenly stoped believing that there is more than one God???



    Mormons believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, so we must be saved, right?
    That depends on which Jesus you are believing on, the Jesus of the Bible or the Mormon Jesus. I think if you believe on the Jesus of the Bible you will be saved. If that happens you will have to disregard the rest of the Mormon thought and rely exclusively on the Bible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    We are not compelled to believe doctrine in order to be saved, you as a Mormon might have to.
    So the rules are different depending on your denominational affiliation? Mormons might have to believe certain doctrines in order to be saved, but others don't?

    As a Bible believer I only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and I am saved.
    Are the rules different for non-Bible believers? Since Mormons are Bible believers, do we only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved?

    How about commenting on the differences between the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Mormon teaching?
    Because they are one and the same, so there are no differences.

    Donít leave me hanging, tell me why it is a lie.
    Um...because it's false. Do you really not know what we believe?

    Have Mormons suddenly stoped believing that there is more than one God???
    Apparently you don't. I'll take that into account in the future.

    That depends on which Jesus you are believing on, the Jesus of the Bible or the Mormon Jesus.
    Since they are one and the same, we're good, right?

    I think if you believe on the Jesus of the Bible you will be saved.
    Mormons believe on the Jesus of the Bible, so we must be saved, right?

    If that happens you will have to disregard the rest of the Mormon thought and rely exclusively on the Bible.
    But we don't have to to be saved, right?

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    So the rules are different depending on your denominational affiliation? Mormons might have to believe certain doctrines in order to be saved, but others don't?
    I would suspect that you know more about Mormonism that I do. I told you what I think a Bible believer needs to do. You on the other hand, donít rely on the Bible as much as I would, but the Book of Mormon, Pearl of great Price and Doctrine and Covenants play a greater role in the dictates of your beliefs. Yes, it may be different depending on your denominational affiliation. There is a difference in reality and beliefs. I do not think that any of us know it all.

    Any unsaved person needs to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. This refers to the Jesus described in the Bible.



    Are the rules different for non-Bible believers? Since Mormons are Bible believers, do we only need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved?
    That depends on who you believe in. Is it Jesus the creator of everything that was created, or Jesus, the spirit brother of Lucifer?

    The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.

    I have to go on record that I believe that the Bible is totally correct and the Mormon stand on this point is a fatal error.

    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any

    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.



    Because they are one and the same, so there are no differences.
    The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.



    Um...because it's false. Do you really not know what we believe?
    There are many Gods for other worlds, and each God is equal to the God of this world in terms of His nature.
    There are many gods who create and rule over other worlds, and on those worlds, worship excludes the God of our world. So there is only one God for us, and this God is typically referred to as the Heavenly Father. (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 576-7; Joseph Fielding Smith, ed., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-7 [pre-2002 edition]; Abraham 4:1, Pearl of Great Price; and "God," LDS Bible Dictionary).

    There seems to be more gods in the Mormon universe than people on Earth. The Mormon Church teaches that more than one god exists and that is contrary to the Bible.

    Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
    Isaiah 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.

    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any



    Apparently you don't. I'll take that into account in the future.
    According to the Bible there is only one God. (See Isaiah 44:8)



    Since they are one and the same, we're good, right?
    They are not the same. The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.



    Mormons believe on the Jesus of the Bible, so we must be saved, right?
    Impossible! The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.



    But we don't have to to be saved, right?
    Mormonism is a total departure from the Bible. After a person is saved they are expected to live a Christ directed Christian life. That means that you need to hold onto that which is good and let the false teaching stay in the past to be ignored. If you are to discover that the Bible is the truth that it claims to be then the false beliefs have to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Yes, it may be different depending on your denominational affiliation.
    So where in the Bible do we find the requirements for the various denominations?

    Any unsaved person needs to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.
    But this may be only the first of many requirements, if I'm understanding you.

    That depends on who you believe in. Is it Jesus the creator of everything that was created, or Jesus, the spirit brother of Lucifer?
    Earlier you said we don't have to believe doctrine to be saved. Why do the requirements keep changing?

    There are many Gods for other worlds, and each God is equal to the God of this world in terms of His nature.
    There are many gods who create and rule over other worlds, and on those worlds, worship excludes the God of our world. So there is only one God for us, and this God is typically referred to as the Heavenly Father. (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 576-7; Joseph Fielding Smith, ed., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-7 [pre-2002 edition]; Abraham 4:1, Pearl of Great Price; and "God," LDS Bible Dictionary).

    There seems to be more gods in the Mormon universe than people on Earth. The Mormon Church teaches that more than one god exists and that is contrary to the Bible.
    Only one of your references is a doctrinal source (did you know that?), but I checked all of them and none of them stated what you claim. Where did you get your quote?

    They are not the same.
    They are.

    Impossible!
    And yet it is so. There must be a problem with your premises.

    Mormonism is a total departure from the Bible.
    That's just false, meaningless rhetoric.

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    So where in the Bible do we find the requirements for the various denominations?
    There is no requirements for different denominations in the Bible. The different requirements for different denominations is self-imposed by the different denominations. The actual and only requirement is in the Bible, believe and be saved.

    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Also see the original post on this thread.



    But this may be only the first of many requirements, if I'm understanding you.
    I donít think that you are understanding me. Believe and be saved is the ONLY requirement. What happens after you are saved is a totally different thing. After you are saved, created in Christ Jesus, there is a requirement to live a Christ directed Christian life. This life is a life of obedience and good works. (See Ephesians 2:10)

    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



    Earlier you said we don't have to believe doctrine to be saved. Why do the requirements keep changing?
    Another misunderstanding. In order to gain salvation all that is required is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. There is no other requirement to gain salvation. What happens after you are saved is a totally different thing. After you are saved, created in Christ Jesus, there is a requirement to live a Christ directed Christian life. This life is a life of obedience and good works. Under the term, obedience, learning the doctrines and believing them gives you the knowledge of how to live the Christian life and the Holy Spirit gives you the power to do it.



    Only one of your references is a doctrinal source (did you know that?), but I checked all of them and none of them stated what you claim. Where did you get your quote?
    I do know that the LDS church teaches the existence of more than one god. The LDS description of the Trinity shows that quite clearly. There is more than that and you know that as well as I do.



    They are.
    Donít keep me waiting, show me. How is it possible for Jesus to be the creator of all things created and be the spirit brother of Lucifer? Totally impossible.



    And yet it is so. There must be a problem with your premises.
    You are a good Mormon, believing everything that the church hands you no matter how impossible the reality of it is. Either Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer or he created Lucifer. You canít have it both ways. The Bible says that Jesus is the creator of all things created. I am going to believe the Bible. The problem is that you are straying from the Bible.



    That's just false, meaningless rhetoric.


    Mormonism:The LDS Church is the only true church. Bible: The Church is a body of various believers and groups of believers.

    Mormonism: After death, Celestial or the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. Bible: After death, With Christ or with the devil and his angels.


    Mormonism: Christ did not die for all sins. Bible: Christ did die for all sins.

    Mormonism: Marriage may be eternal. Bible: Marriage is only until death.

    Mormonism: Multiplicity of Gods. Bible: Only one God.

    Mormonism: Trinity means three separate Gods. Bible: Father ,Son Holy Spirit are the one God.

    Mormonism: Humans can become Gods. Bible: Humans will never be God.

    Mormonism: God is an exalted man. Bible: God always is God for eternity.

    There is too much more to spend time on when you will just deny it even though you know that the Mormon Church teaches all that I have listed. Being ignorant of the Bible you may not know that the Bible states differently than the LDS extra biblical books.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

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    Try visiting the pages of the Bible. What men write is not always right. The Bible is inspired by God and is what you want to read if you want information about salvation and how to gain it.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    There is no works involved with getting saved. Just believe.
    No... To merely believe in Christ will not save you, even the Bible points this out.

    James 2:19 You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.

    A "Faith" in Christ is all that is required to save you... However, "faith" is an action word; a faith without works is a dead faith...

    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    ....and a dead faith can not save anybody, nor is it the requirement for salvation by God.
    The Freudian Slip title of your thread was actually correct. Belive[Be Live] And be Saved.

    In any case, you do not even believe you own mantra.

    For instance, I believe and have a faith in Jesus Christ of the Bible, AM I SAVED?

    As has been shown already on this thread, your answer is; No!
    In fact, you hypocritically start adding on all kinds of beliefs, requirements, and actions I must take in order to be saved.

    The second problem you have is that there are Churches that you consider to be Christian who have already stated that we are saved.... So why would I listen to you and not to them?
    Last edited by theway; 04-12-2015 at 09:28 AM.

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    No... To merely believe in Christ will not save you, even the Bible points this out.
    To merely believe in Christ will save you, even the Bible points this out. Where is the rest of the answer to the jailors question, what must I do to be saved? Where is all the lists of works that the LDS want to heap upon people? Paul and Silas answered the question truthfully, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

    Where is it mentioned in the answer that you have to make a choice between a true faith and a dead faith. It isnít there.

    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.



    James 2:19 You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.
    Demons are not creatures of faith. The fact that they are not saved is because there is no faith in them.



    A "Faith" in Christ is all that is required to save you... However, "faith" is an action word; a faith without works is a dead faith...
    You are totally out of touch with the Bible. Show me where God is ever obligated to save anyone whether they believe, have faith or do all the works that the LDS leaders place on everyone?

    God is never ever obligated to save anyone. That is why all the works in all the time God grants us life on the Earth will never be enough to merit salvation.

    Salvation is a gift that is given to us by God because he has an attitude of grace towards man and loves man. God saves man that has faith in Jesus Christ because he wants to do it not because we have impressed him with our wonderful lives.

    We are saved by grace not faith. The term grace eliminates any working by man to gain salvation. The fact that salvation is a gift from God also eliminates any working by man to gain salvation. The plain statement, NOT of works eliminates any working by man to gain salvation. We can do nothing to gain salvation.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast



    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    ....and a dead faith can not save anybody, nor is it the requirement for salvation by God.
    Faith does not save anyone in any case. You are making an argument where there is no argument.



    The Freudian Slip title of your thread was actually correct. Belive[Be Live] And be Saved.
    Believe is one term and be and live are two different terms. You are not amusing.



    In any case, you do not even believe you own mantra.

    For instance, I believe and have a faith in Jesus Christ of the Bible, AM I SAVED?

    As has been shown already on this thread, your answer is; No!
    In fact, you hypocritically start adding on all kinds of beliefs, requirements, and actions I must take in order to be saved.
    Show me where I have added all kinds of belief requirements and actions in order to gain salvation.



    The second problem you have is that there are Churches that you consider to be Christian who have already stated that we are saved.... So why would I listen to you and not to them?
    That is not my problem that there are churches that I consider to be Christian that believe Mormons to be Christians, it is their problem. Besides I donít recall mentioning any churches that I consider to be Christian that believe Mormons to be Christians. Seeing that you are privy to such information, tell me about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    To merely believe in Christ will save you, even the Bible points this out.
    No... Only your interpretation of the Bible is all. Luckily you have been unable to even convince your own fellow Christians of this nonsense. Which is why I wonder why you are here? Do you believe the Mormons are more gullible than they are?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Demons are not creatures of faith. The fact that they are not saved is because there is no faith in them.
    Wait a minute, look at your thread title, there is nothing in it about faith, or grace.... just believe. You seem to be changing your tune once the fallacy of your theology has been exposed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post

    You are totally out of touch with the Bible. Show me where God is ever obligated to save anyone whether they believe, have faith or do all the works that the LDS leaders place on everyone?
    I never said anything about obligation, that is your strawman that you created in order to divert attention from your failed argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    God is never ever obligated to save anyone. That is why all the works in all the time God grants us life on the Earth will never be enough to merit salvation
    True, but that has nothing to do with your assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Believe is one term and be and live are two different terms. You are not amusing.
    I actually meant to be amusing, however the problem is that you did not write "Believe"
    The fact that this went right over your head only demonstrates your inability to comprehend the simplist of statements, let alone something complicated like the Bible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Show me where I have added all kinds of belief requirements and actions in order to gain salvation.
    You stated all one had to do is to believe to be saved...
    Its been put forward to you numerous times that we as Mormons believe in the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible, ergo... We are saved, right?
    If not, why not?

    This is where you then start adding on all kinds of qualifiers and actions we as Mormons must first do to be saved. Anyone who has read this thread can see your hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    That is not my problem that there are churches that I consider to be Christian that believe Mormons to be Christians, it is their problem.
    This just points to another one of your hypocrisies. 85% of people who call themselves Christian see Faith Alone AKA, "Cheap Grace" as a heresy, yet you still see them as saved. In fact, if you truely believe that works has nothing to do with salvation, then the fact that we and the vast majority of Christian faiths believe they do, and practice such; will not in any way change whether we are saved or not.... So why bother telling us about it, if it changes nothing anyway.

    The way I see it, is if we are right in that we need both works and faith to be saved, then we will be saved if we have both, yet you will not be saved because you lack works.
    On the other hand if you are right and faith/belief is all that was needed to be saved, then we are still saved because we still at least have faith....

    It's a win-win for us, as we have both bases covered.
    However, you've only got 50%-50% chance at salvation.
    Last edited by theway; 04-12-2015 at 11:46 AM.

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    No... Only your interpretation of the Bible is all. Luckily you have been unable to even convince your own fellow Christians of this nonsense. Which is why I wonder why you are here? Do you believe the Mormons are more gullible than they are?
    Of course it is my interpretation of the Bible. I would be less than honest with myself if I didnít believe it the way that I read it and understand it. You have the same privilege to believe what you believe as well. Assuming that one of us is correct then logically the other is wrong. What I do is rely on what the Bible says to me in what I feel is a clear understanding.

    I donít have to convince my fellow Christians to believe me as we, for the most part, are in agreement. As far as Mormons being more gullible, that has nothing to do with it. We do not see the Christian faith in the same light. We are 180 degrees out of phase on most topics.

    Do you take everything that the LDS teach without question? I am allowed to question the church leaders where I attend and it is expected that it will be done if any member feels the need to understand or even correct the Pastor. This is not a sin but rather it is a duty. The truth is more important than the preacher being always thought to be right no matter what. We are not to swallow everything blindly that is taught, but we should follow the example of the believers at Berea, who searched the scriptures to check if Paul and Silas were telling the truth or not. (See Acts 17:10 and 11) Should we be any different?

    Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



    Wait a minute, look at your thread title, there is nothing in it about faith, or grace.... just believe. You seem to be changing your tune once the fallacy of your theology has been exposed.
    Wait a minute, read the Bible:

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    It says saved by grace through faith. Believing is an act of faith. When God sees our faith he saves us but it is by grace as we do not deserve salvation.

    Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. (http://www.mormon.org/faq/topic/fait.../what-is-faith)



    I never said anything about obligation, that is your strawman that you created in order to divert attention from your failed argument.
    No, you never said anything about obligation, I did. If you work for someone that someone is obligated to pay you. You can work to gain salvation all you want but God will not be obligated to grant you salvation because of your work. This is not a straw man this is truth. (See Ephesians 2:9) What part of ďnot of worksĒ is so difficult to understand?



    True, but that has nothing to do with your assertion
    .

    It has everything, Salvation is a gift, not of works. You do not need to do anything to gain salvation but believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.



    I actually meant to be amusing, however the problem is that you did not write "Believe"
    The fact that this went right over your head only demonstrates your inability to comprehend the simplist of statements, let alone something complicated like the Bible.
    A typing error doesnít change the truth. You are still not amusing but you do stumble over the obvious quite eloquently.



    You stated all one had to do is to believe to be saved...
    Its been put forward to you numerous times that we as Mormons believe in the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible, ergo... We are saved, right?
    If not, why not?

    This is where you then start adding on all kinds of qualifiers and actions we as Mormons must first do to be saved. Anyone who has read this thread can see your hypocrisy.
    If the Mormon Jesus is not the Jesus that is the person that the father sent to die for our sins then you can believe in him all you want and you will not be saved.

    The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.



    This just points to another one of your hypocrisies. 85% of people who call themselves Christian see Faith Alone AKA, "Cheap Grace" as a heresy, yet you still see them as saved. In fact, if you truely believe that works has nothing to do with salvation, then the fact that we and the vast majority of Christian faiths believe they do, and practice such; will not in any way change whether we are saved or not.... So why bother telling us about it, if it changes nothing anyway.
    This is not a democratic vote. The majority is not necessarily right. When the Bible says ďnot of worksĒ, I donít care if it is 99.9% that believe works have a part in salvation, it just isnít so and never will be. The problem is that you who believe that works will gain salvation for you are trusting in your works and not trusting in God to give what he said is a gift. If you are trusting your works and not trusting God, it changes everything.



    The way I see it, is if we are right in that we need both works and faith to be saved, then we will be saved if we have both, yet you will not be saved because you lack works.
    On the other hand if you are right and faith/belief is all that was needed to be saved, then we are still saved because we still at least have faith....
    Yes, faith in your works that will get you nowhere.



    It's a win-win for us, as we have both bases covered.
    However, you've only got 50%-50% chance at salvation.
    When the Bible says ďnot of worksĒ I have it all, 100%.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    There is no requirements for different denominations in the Bible. The different requirements for different denominations is self-imposed by the different denominations. The actual and only requirement is in the Bible, believe and be saved.
    Great. So since Mormons believe, then according to the Bible we are saved, right?

    I donít think that you are understanding me. Believe and be saved is the ONLY requirement.
    Thanks for clearing that up. So since Mormons believe, we must be saved, right?

    What happens after you are saved is a totally different thing. After you are saved, created in Christ Jesus, there is a requirement to live a Christ directed Christian life.
    What happens if one fails to meet the requirement?

    Another misunderstanding. In order to gain salvation all that is required is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. There is no other requirement to gain salvation.
    Okay, so since Mormons believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, we must be saved, right?

    I do know that the LDS church teaches the existence of more than one god. The LDS description of the Trinity shows that quite clearly. There is more than that and you know that as well as I do.
    But I want to know where you got the quote, or if you just made it up.

    Donít keep me waiting, show me. How is it possible for Jesus to be the creator of all things created and be the spirit brother of Lucifer? Totally impossible.
    Easy. God is the father of spirits, which makes all of us spiritual brothers and sisters.

    You are a good Mormon, believing everything that the church hands you no matter how impossible the reality of it is.
    LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Of course it is my interpretation of the Bible. I would be less than honest with myself if I didn’t believe it the way that I read it and understand it. You have the same privilege to believe what you believe as well. Assuming that one of us is correct then logically the other is wrong. What I do is rely on what the Bible says to me in what I feel is a clear understanding.

    I don’t have to convince my fellow Christians to believe me as we, for the most part, are in agreement. As far as Mormons being more gullible, that has nothing to do with it. We do not see the Christian faith in the same light. We are 180 degrees out of phase on most topics.p

    Do you take everything that the LDS teach without question? I am allowed to question the church leaders where I attend and it is expected that it will be done if any member feels the need to understand or even correct the Pastor. This is not a sin but rather it is a duty. The truth is more important than the preacher being always thought to be right no matter what. We are not to swallow everything blindly that is taught, but we should follow the example of the believers at Berea, who searched the scriptures to check if Paul and Silas were telling the truth or not. (See Acts 17:10 and 11) Should we be any different?

    Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


    Wait a minute, read the Bible:

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    It says saved by grace through faith. Believing is an act of faith. When God sees our faith he saves us but it is by grace as we do not deserve salvation.

    Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. (http://www.mormon.org/faq/topic/fait.../what-is-faith)

    No, you never said anything about obligation, I did. If you work for someone that someone is obligated to pay you. You can work to gain salvation all you want but God will not be obligated to grant you salvation because of your work. This is not a straw man this is truth. (See Ephesians 2:9) What part of “not of works” is so difficult to understand?

    It has everything, Salvation is a gift, not of works. You do not need to do anything to gain salvation but believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

    A typing error doesn’t change the truth. You are still not amusing but you do stumble over the obvious quite eloquently.

    If the Mormon Jesus is not the Jesus that is the person that the father sent to die for our sins then you can believe in him all you want and you will not be saved.

    The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of everything that was created. Lucifer was also created by the creator, Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is not the spirit brother of Lucifer but his creator. This is an irreconcilable difference that has no possible way to conclude that the Mormon Jesus is the same as the Jesus described in the Bible.

    This is not a democratic vote. The majority is not necessarily right. When the Bible says “not of works”, I don’t care if it is 99.9% that believe works have a part in salvation, it just isn’t so and never will be. The problem is that you who believe that works will gain salvation for you are trusting in your works and not trusting in God to give what he said is a gift. If you are trusting your works and not trusting God, it changes everything.

    Yes, faith in your works that will get you nowhere.

    When the Bible says “not of works” I have it all, 100%.
    Now I'm confused???
    You started this thread by saying "belief" alone saved.
    Then you changed it to a Faith Alone saves...
    Then it was Grace Alone which saves...
    Then you changed it to grace through faith...
    Then you stated that whether you believed in Faith Alone or Grace Alone really doesn't matter, because the real test of salvation is that you don't believe that Satan was a spirit Brother of Jesus (which by the way is not a requirement found anywhere in the Bible)
    Then you stated that works matter, except only after you are saved????

    This is why I could never be a Faith Alone believer... There's just too many works involved.
    Last edited by theway; 04-12-2015 at 11:49 PM.

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    Great. So since Mormons believe, then according to the Bible we are saved, right?
    Thanks for clearing that up. So since Mormons believe, we must be saved, right?
    If you were to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, then you would be saved.



    What happens if one fails to meet the requirement?
    Not believing in OSAS I am led to the conclusion that the person that fails to meet the requirement departs from the living God. (See Hebrews 3:12)

    Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.



    Okay, so since Mormons believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, we must be saved, right?
    If you were to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, then you would be saved.



    Easy. God is the father of spirits, which makes all of us spiritual brothers and sisters.
    Human existence begins in a motherís womb at conception. Preexistence as spirit children is not Bible and therefore not true. Jesus preexisted as God before he became a man, no one else.
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    Now I'm confused???
    You started this thread by saying "belief" alone saved.
    Then you changed it to a Faith Alone saves...
    Then it was Grace Alone which saves...
    Then you changed it to grace through faith...
    Then you stated that whether you believed in Faith Alone or Grace Alone really doesn't matter, because the real test of salvation is that you don't believe that Satan was a spirit Brother of Jesus (which by the way is not a requirement found anywhere in the Bible)
    Then you stated that works matter, except only after you are saved????

    This is why I could never be a Faith Alone believer... There's just too many works involved.
    The reason you are so confused is all that Mormon false teaching running through your head.

    All a man or woman must do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and they shall be saved. God said he will save those that believe and he does so by grace because we can never deserve salvation. There is Manís part and there is Godís part. It isnít that complicated.

    There is a difference between saved and lost. The lost can do nothing that will obligate God to save them so God gives salvation as a gift to those that believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Once the gift is given and received there is a new life that is to be lived. In that life we are to live a Christ directed Christian life that involves works.

    Donít worry because faith does not save anyone, God does all the saving.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    If you were to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, then you would be saved.
    I guess that's as close to an answer as we're going to get. I'll take that as a yes.

    Not believing in OSAS I am led to the conclusion that the person that fails to meet the requirement departs from the living God. (See Hebrews 3:12)

    Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    Good, we agree on something (which means you're right ).

    Human existence begins in a motherís womb at conception. Preexistence as spirit children is not Bible and therefore not true. Jesus preexisted as God before he became a man, no one else.
    Not according to the Bible.

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    I guess that's as close to an answer as we're going to get. I'll take that as a yes.
    You can take it any way you want to. The fact is that Jesus of the Bible is the creator of all things created and is not the spirit brother of Lucifer because the Jesus of the Bible created Lucifer.

    The Jesus of the Mormon thought is just one god among many.

    If you want to take that as yes you may as well keep on deluding yourself into thinking that there is no difference because we wouldn't want to think that the Mormon church could possibly be wrong.



    Not according to the Bible.
    Show me from the Bible.
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