Jesus Christ? Or YOURSELF to 'do enough' good works?
I'll stick with Jesus, my good works come from HIS HOLY SPIRIT, not from myself.
Jesus Christ? Or YOURSELF to 'do enough' good works?
I'll stick with Jesus, my good works come from HIS HOLY SPIRIT, not from myself.
And WHICH jesus christ would that be? Joseph smith's INVENTED jesus? Or the REAL BIBLICAL ONE that is NOT a spirit brother of satan?
Yes, I think I DO know which one the mormons follow. Their posts and literature TELL US.
I don't know. But I DO know the REAL Jesus Christ told us:
Matt 24:24-25
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
NKJV
Mark 13:22-23
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
NKJV
Isn't it INTERESTING that that 'all things' that Jesus told us DIDN'T INCLUDE any of your 'mormon specific' trash?
Are YOU following one of those false christs and false prophets?
I suspect so.
So you DON'T believe the REAL JESUS when He said (IN THE BIBLE):
Matt 24:24-25
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
NKJV
Mark 13:22-23
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
NKJV
How can you claim to believe the REAL Jesus if you don't believe what HE SAYS?
Then why don't you believe what He SAID when He SAID:
Matt 24:24-25
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
NKJV
Mark 13:22-23
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.
NKJV
????
You indicated you don't believe that false christs exist. I demonstrated that Jesus CREATED the Angels (John 1:1-3) and that satan is NOT as your false prophet claimed, a 'spirit brother' of Jesus, but is instead a CREATION BY Jesus.
Where did I indicate that?
No you ***erted it.I demonstrated that Jesus CREATED the Angels (John 1:1-3) and that satan is NOT as your false prophet claimed, a 'spirit brother' of Jesus, but is instead a CREATION BY Jesus.
Neither one of those was the false premise your question ***umed.
erunder posted:
No you ***erted it.I demonstrated that Jesus CREATED the Angels (John 1:1-3) and that satan is NOT as your false prophet claimed, a 'spirit brother' of Jesus, but is instead a CREATION BY Jesus.
FALSE. IF you look at the part I CUT and PASTED above, you should notice that I pointed you to the Gospel of John which SAYS CLEARLY:
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (if you bother to look at verse 14 you find that the Word is JESUS CHRIST). 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV
Are ANGELS 'things?' Yep, they are. The Bible says it clearly. Jesus CREATED the angels.
NO CHRISTIAN IN CHRIST's church EVER taught that the father had gazillions of 'spirit babies' or that Jesus was anything like that. THIS SCRiPTURE sas that Jesus was there IN THE BEGINNING with the Father. NOT just one of a gazillion 'spirit babies' or related in any way OTHER THAN CREATOR to your demons including satan.
Sorry erunder, but you follow a false prophet (who can't, just like the rest of the mormon 'prophets', prophesy) and a false christ, a fictional character INVENTED BY joey smith.
If you are happy with false gods and false christs and false prophets, you are on your own. . .
Which does not say "Jesus CREATED the angels."FALSE. IF you look at the part I CUT and PASTED above, you should notice that I pointed you to the Gospel of John which SAYS CLEARLY:
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (if you bother to look at verse 14 you find that the Word is JESUS CHRIST). 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV
No, that is your interpretation of the text.Are ANGELS 'things?' Yep, they are. The Bible says it clearly. Jesus CREATED the angels.
I know. It's the anti-Mormons who teach that.NO CHRISTIAN IN CHRIST's church EVER taught that the father had gazillions of 'spirit babies' or that Jesus was anything like that.
As a Christian, I disagree with you that Jesus Christ is a false Christ and a fictional character.Sorry erunder, but you follow a false prophet (who can't, just like the rest of the mormon 'prophets', prophesy) and a false christ, a fictional character INVENTED BY joey smith.
erunder posted:
No you ***erted it.
FALSE. IF you look at the part I CUT and PASTED above, you should notice that I pointed you to the Gospel of John which SAYS CLEARLY:
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (if you bother to look at verse 14 you find that the Word is JESUS CHRIST). 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV
Are ANGELS 'things?' Yep, they are. The Bible says it clearly. Jesus CREATED the angels.
NO CHRISTIAN IN CHRIST's church EVER taught that the father had gazillions of 'spirit babies' or that Jesus was anything like that. THIS SCRiPTURE sas that Jesus was there IN THE BEGINNING with the Father. NOT just one of a gazillion 'spirit babies' or related in any way OTHER THAN CREATOR to your demons including satan.
Sorry erunder, but you follow a false prophet (who can't, just like the rest of the mormon 'prophets', prophesy) and a false christ, a fictional character INVENTED BY joey smith.
If you are happy with false gods and false christs and false prophets, you are on your own. . .
This is correct..
Angels are "things"...
Jesus Christ is the creator of all such "things"
case-closed....
I would like to see more evidence that it's correct, than just your belief.
If so, then the Persons of the Trinity are things as well.Angels are "things"...
If you're not going to agree with realities such as the definition of a noun (a person OR a place OR a thing)and the obvious implication that there can be a difference between a person and a thing, then you must take as your position the belief that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are things, not people, not persons...just things, in the same category as a rock or a chair or the solar system.
The problem this will cause you will become apparent in about 5 seconds.
Then you believe that Jesus Christ created God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.Jesus Christ is the creator of all such "things"
case-closed...
Could we reopen that case with this question?
Who was this Angel--and is He a thing?
Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.
God is not a "thing"
Things are creations of God...
All things are created by God....
Christ is God...
Christ is the creator...
Christ created all things.
Angels are one of the things that God created.
Christ is the creator that made all things, and therefore, Jesus made all the angels....
I believe he may be referring to Genesis 31 :11Could we reopen that case with this question?
Who was this Angel--and is He a thing?
Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.
From the text and the story we do see that he had dreams of angels..It also says he saw a few angels at 32:1...
And then there also is the story of the time he got into a fight all night long with a man...
from this we can understand that many angels were sent into his life to carry out the instructions of the Creator.
I'm referring to your post--which labeled angels as "things":I believe he may be referring to Genesis 31 :11
From the text and the story we do see that he had dreams of angels..It also says he saw a few angels at 32:1...
And then there also is the story of the time he got into a fight all night long with a man...
from this we can understand that many angels were sent into his life to carry out the instructions of the Creator.
Again--is this Angel a "thing"?Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
This is correct..
Angels are "things"...
Jesus Christ is the creator of all such "things"
case-closed....
Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.
You do realize that is a reference to Christ?
The cl***ic biblical use of the term, to be describing a created heavenly creature (both the good angels, and the bad angels) are created things...
They are "creatures"...
They are things that came into being by the creative work of God.
The Bible tells us that it was Jesus Christ that made "all things"...and that without him nothing was made that was ever made.
Notice the Bible tells us that Christ made "all things"
It does not say that Christ made all "other" things...
For if Christ was a creation of God, then he would be just one of the many things that god made...
He would be a creature...and as such the Bible would be in error telling us that Christ made "all things". for it should have said that Christ made "all other things'.
So the moment I read that Christ made "all things" I take this to mean that Christ is not a "thing"
He cant be a thing.
For me made "all things"
Now the term 'angel" can be used in all kinds of different contexts, and this would of course change the meanings...an example would be that a dog that leads a search party to a lost child might be called the child's "angel" by the family of the child.
Or you could even term inanimate objects as also being "angels", as I once was reading a story of a giant meteor that hits the earth being called "The Angel Of Death"
So as with all things, you have to always keep in mind the full context of how a word is used....because you dont want to get mixed up and think that a dog or a big rock that might be called an "Angel" must therefore always mean that such things are messengers from heaven...
Now in the verse we are dealing with and the use of the term "Angel" by the person of Israel, we have a very good understanding from the text that at several times inhis life he did receive special 'visitations' that could be accounts of the cl***ic heavenly "angels"
I don't think "things" is the correct term to use to describe living, sentient beings.
People are not things. Rocks, trees, mountains, rivers, and the roller coaster at Disneyland are things.
We are things...we are made.
We are created.
God is not a thing.
Only God was never created
I am unaware of the definition of "thing" as "what is created."
My teachers taught me that a noun is a person or a place or a thing. Logically, then, people and things are not the same.