WHO do you have faith in?

[alanmolstad]

So this is why the Bible tells us that Jesus made "All things"...
All things in heaven and on earth....both the visible and the invisible....

For he is the lord God Almighty!.....Amen!

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

So this is why the Bible tells us that Jesus made "All things"...
All things in heaven and on earth....both the visible and the invisible....

For he is the lord God Almighty!.....Amen!

That does not touch the problem with your statement that angels are created beings--and the scriptural reference referring to Christ as an Angel, IE--

Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post---Im say that angels are created.

Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That does not touch the problem with your statement that angels are created beings--and the scriptural reference referring to Christ as an Angel, IE--



Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.

and so it works out like this then...
Angels are creating things...just like we are..
Angels are sent to carry out the commands of the lord...
and this is why from time to time angels do save people from all kinds of evil things that are talked about in the Bible...the story of LOT is one such story where we read about angels being sent to a city and where they do save people that were about to be harmed...
There is also the story of when Peter was in jail, and an angel came and set him free and saved him.

So while its not a common event in the Bible, we yet do see a few accounts of angels being sent to save people and set them free and even helping them get dressed...
There is even an account of angels appearing to minister to Christ once when he was in need of ***istance.

But we need to always remember that angels are just 'things"...like you and I are just "things" too..

we are creatures, and He is our Creator!


AMEN!!!!!!!

[Christian]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Yes they do--here they are:

Boyd K. Packer
Elder L. Tom Perry
Elder Russell M. Nelson
Elder Dallin H. Oaks
Elder M. Russell Ballard
Elder Richard G. Scott
Elder Robert D. Hales
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland
Elder David A. Bednar
Elder Quentin L. Cook
Elder D. Todd Christofferson
Elder Neil L. Andersen

And WHERE did joey smith's (or later the apostate brigham young's) relgion get any authority FROM GOD for any of these so-called 'elders' to represent HIM?

From ollie cowdery and joey smith going out into the woods and 'playing religion,' 'baptizing' and 'ordaining' each other into an imaginary church?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by childofgod

The Prophets and apostles have received their authority the same way the ancients received it, by the laying on of hands.
Joseph and Oliver didn't play religion, they did as John the Baptist instructed after he bestowed the priesthood of Aaron on them and baptized each other followed by ordaining each other to the priesthood. This was under the direction of God and Christ.

Please show us CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE where ANY priest of Aaron was ordained by the laying on of hands.

Please READ Exodus 29 (ALL of it)

THAT is how Aaron and his seed were to be ordained. A 7 day ceremony with hands laid on oxen, sheep, and goats when they were to be sacrificed on the alter, BUT NOT ONE HAND LAID ON AARON.

Your cult has lied to you.

And joey and oliver went into the woods to play religion. They 'ordained' each other before being 'baptized' to have their sins forgiven. According to your d&c such 'ordinations' would NOT be from God, dirty sinful men 'ordaining' each other. . .

THEN they 'baptized' each other, again violating your d&c.

I guess YOUR god doesn't follow his own rules. . .

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

And WHERE did joey smith's (or later the apostate brigham young's) relgion get any authority FROM GOD for any of these so-called 'elders' to represent HIM?

From ollie cowdery and joey smith going out into the woods and 'playing religion,' 'baptizing' and 'ordaining' each other into an imaginary church?

D&C 110:

1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

and so it works out like this then...
Angels are creating things...just like we are..
Angels are sent to carry out the commands of the lord...
and this is why from time to time angels do save people from all kinds of evil things that are talked about in the Bible...the story of LOT is one such story where we read about angels being sent to a city and where they do save people that were about to be harmed...
There is also the story of when Peter was in jail, and an angel came and set him free and saved him.

So while its not a common event in the Bible, we yet do see a few accounts of angels being sent to save people and set them free and even helping them get dressed...
There is even an account of angels appearing to minister to Christ once when he was in need of ***istance.

But we need to always remember that angels are just 'things"...like you and I are just "things" too..

we are creatures, and He is our Creator!

AMEN!!!!!!!

Then you believe Jesus Christ is a "thing" like you and I are?

Again--the verse in Genesis is a reference to Christ:

Genesis 48:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a mul***ude in the midst of the earth.



Matthew Poole's Commentary
The Angel; not surely a created angel, but Christ Jesus, who is called an Angel, Exodus 23:20, and the Angel of the covenant, Malachi 3:1, who was the conductor of the Israelites in the wilderness, as plainly appears by comparing of Exodus 23:20,21, with 1 Corinthians 10:4,9. Add hereunto, that this Angel is called Jacob’s Redeemer, which is the ***le appropriated by God to himself, Isaiah 43:14 47:4, and that from all evil, and therefore from sin, from which no created angel can deliver us, but Christ only, Matthew 1:21; and that Jacob worshippeth and prayeth to this Angel no less than to God for the blessing, and that without any note of distinction, the word bless being in the singular number, and equally relating to God and to the Angel; and that the Angel to whom he here ascribes his deliverances from all evil, must in all reason be the same to whom he prayed for these very deliverances which he here commemorates, and that was no other than the very God of Abraham, as is evident from Genesis 28:15,20,21 32:9-11 35:3.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads,.... Ephraim and Man***eh, now about twenty years old or upwards: this is not to be understood of a created angel he wishes to be their guardian, but of an eternal one, the Son of God, the Angel of God's presence, the Angel of the covenant; ...