God the Father

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

IF you look at the part I CUT and PASTED above, you should notice that I pointed you to the Gospel of John which SAYS CLEARLY:

[/COLOR]John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (if you bother to look at verse 14 you find that the Word is JESUS CHRIST). 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV

I would like to point out a particular in that scriptural quote:

John 1:1-3---King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

There are exclusions to that, obviously. God the Father was not made by Jesus--and neither were spirits--as the Bible clearly points out that God the Father was the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

And all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Even Jesus conceded that fact:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

All of mankind's spirits--including the spirit of Christ--shared the same Father--God the Father. That is the reason both Christ and we refer to God the Father as "Father"--and spirits as His "brethren".

Hebrews 2:11-17---King James Version (KJV)
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

All spirits are children of God the Father, not Jesus Christ. No exceptions. That is why there has to be an adoption to Christ--because He is not the Father of them, neither in the flesh, nor the spirit--we have fathers of our flesh, and God the Father as Father of our spirit.

So--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirit children--please reveal Him to us.

[Apologette]

Hey, dberrie, you realize that Joe Smith, your true "god," said that your "heavenly father" was "appointed" by a council of gods to rule planet earth. So, obviously, your "heavenly father" was a spirit baby at one time, or do you deny that?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

I would like to point out a particular in that scriptural quote:

John 1:1-3---King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

There are exclusions to that, obviously. God the Father was not made by Jesus--and neither were spirits--as the Bible clearly points out that God the Father was the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

And all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Even Jesus conceded that fact:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

All of mankind's spirits--including the spirit of Christ--shared the same Father--God the Father. That is the reason both Christ and we refer to God the Father as "Father"--and spirits as His "brethren".

Hebrews 2:11-17---King James Version (KJV)
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

All spirits are children of God the Father, not Jesus Christ. No exceptions. That is why there has to be an adoption to Christ--because He is not the Father of them, neither in the flesh, nor the spirit--we have fathers of our flesh, and God the Father as Father of our spirit.

So--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirit children--please reveal Him to us.

Originally Posted by Apologette

Hey, dberrie, you realize that Joe Smith, your true "god," said that....

Could you explain for us how kicking at Joseph Smith somehow cancels out or annuls the above scriptures?

Apologette--where are your scriptures? I notice every time the scriptures are quoted that defy the faith alone theology--your response is to kick Joseph Smith a little harder. It won't solve your theology problem.

The faith alone--and I--claim truth is found in the Bible. Why don't you use it to defend your theology?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post I would like to point out a particular in that scriptural quote:

John 1:1-3---King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

There are exclusions to that, obviously. God the Father was not made by Jesus--and neither were spirits--as the Bible clearly points out that God the Father was the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

And all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Even Jesus conceded that fact:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

All of mankind's spirits--including the spirit of Christ--shared the same Father--God the Father. That is the reason both Christ and we refer to God the Father as "Father"--and spirits as His "brethren".

Hebrews 2:11-17---King James Version (KJV)
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

All spirits are children of God the Father, not Jesus Christ. No exceptions. That is why there has to be an adoption to Christ--because He is not the Father of them, neither in the flesh, nor the spirit--we have fathers of our flesh, and God the Father as Father of our spirit.

So--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirit children--please reveal Him to us.

Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View PostHey, dberrie, you realize that Joe Smith, your true "god," said that....

Could you explain for us how kicking at Joseph Smith somehow cancels out or annuls the above scriptures?

Apologette--where are your scriptures? I notice every time the scriptures are quoted that defy the faith alone theology--your response is to kick Joseph Smith a little harder. It won't solve your theology problem.

The faith alone--and I--claim truth is found in the Bible. Why don't you use it to defend your theology?

Apologette? Anyone?

[Berean]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

Could you explain for us how kicking at Joseph Smith somehow cancels out or annuls the above scriptures?

Apologette--where are your scriptures? I notice every time the scriptures are quoted that defy the faith alone theology--your response is to kick Joseph Smith a little harder. It won't solve your theology problem.

The faith alone--and I--claim truth is found in the Bible. Why don't you use it to defend your theology?

Apologette? Anyone?

No, I won't address constant mocking and mindless nonsense.

I will point out, however, your clear motive to mock and belittle Christians.

You constantly post Scriptures out of context and then ask us why we don't believe what you insist they must say. It's not the Scriptures we don't believe, it's the crooked spin you place on them that we see through.

You cannot possibly misunderstand what these verses teach in context, having been treated to hundreds of valid arguments that clearly explain them when placed in their proper context, and which clearly prove you wrong. But you never address our arguments or the Scriptures we post, instead you sidestep the issues we present, only to continue to mock and taunt us with this same mindless drivel, over and over again.

I'm sure you do this because talking about your own "scriptures" (and I use that term loosely) only makes you look like a fool for believing them. In fact, there is nothing about Mormonism that has anything at all to do with the truth. The entire religion was built on a lie, and once you tell just one, you have to keep telling them. Eventually they catch up with you, as Smith's lies have done. And they are so obvious, now that the information age of the Internet has ****n their cover, Mormons look like mindless idiots. And since your egos are YUGE, you lash out in anger and try to make us look as stupid as you are. The problem is, you're not smart enough to do that.

Mormons are taught by their leaders that it's ok to lie to defend the prophet, and there is no consequence to you. It all falls on whoever told YOU the lie, even if you know it's a lie. What a sad excuse for a "religion."

So it's no wonder you don't want to discuss your own religion and instead seek to mock ours, because the lies are so obvious that only a fool would attempt to defend them and the Mormon Church. It's all garbage and you know that. That's why you and your troll buddies avoid any discussion of it. I can't get any of you to come to my "Christian free speech" forum for this very reason. And there is literally no discussion on any other forum that amounts to anything worthwhile. All we get from Mormons on any forum is this same type of mocking and the same bogus lies that you tell here and everywhere else on the Internet.

So that's why you got uppity when Apologette tried to point this out. Instead of focusing on defending Mormonism while here in the Mormon section, your efforts are all about tearing down the Christian faith, by intentionally distorting and mocking our beliefs. There is no other way to describe that other than anti-Christian trolling. Your efforts are clearly mean spirited and wrought with evil intent. If there was any truth in your arguments, that would be different but we know you know the truth because we've explained it to you. The problem is you keep making these same bogus arguments when you know they are only lies.

Mocking us and running away from the truth won't do anything to solve "your" Mormon theology problems. I think you should face them rather than hiding behind this ruse to avoid them.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Berean

You cannot possibly misunderstand what these verses teach in context, having been treated to hundreds of valid arguments that clearly explain them when placed in their proper context, and which clearly prove you wrong.

That's all fine and good, Berean--but you did not offer us any context of the posted scriptures.

Care to address the scriptures, IE---

"There are exclusions to that, obviously. God the Father was not made by Jesus--and neither were spirits--as the Bible clearly points out that God the Father was the Father of spirits:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

And all spirits are the offspring of God the Father:

Acts 17:29---King James Version (KJV)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Even Jesus conceded that fact:

John 20:17---King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

All of mankind's spirits--including the spirit of Christ--shared the same Father--God the Father. That is the reason both Christ and we refer to God the Father as "Father"--and spirits as His "brethren".

Hebrews 2:11-17---King James Version (KJV)
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

All spirits are children of God the Father, not Jesus Christ, as to Fathering of the spirits. No exceptions. That is why there has to be an adoption to Christ--because He is not the Father of them, neither in the flesh, nor the spirit--as we have fathers of our flesh, and God the Father as Father of our spirit.

So--if you believe there is another God that Fathers spirit children--please reveal Him to us."