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Thread: no need to restore the truth

  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    who does the Bible say is actually doing the works in the next verse?
    Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    And right before it?


    Phl 2:10-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


    So, then, if all will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord--will ALL be saved? And if so, why doesn't God cause all to do good works?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    who does the Bible say is actually doing the works in the next verse?
    Is your claim that it is God being judged here--for His works?

    Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Or is it mankind being judged in accordance with their works?

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you .......
    Amen!.......

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    of course paul didn't say that. paul wouldn't have said something that was so false. he left that *** for 21st-century anti-mormons.

    AND to 21st century CHRISTIANS, AND to 19th century MORMONS, of course.

  5. #280
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    Hi DB,

    A few comments on previous posts.

    First the belief you hold that Jesus would baptize Judas,knowing he was a devil.
    In our time, Baptism is a testimony that the participant has trusted in Christ as Savior and they are identifying themselves by submitting to baptism. In the time of John the Baptist baptism was for confession of sin and repentance, for those who turned from their sin and were waiting for the arrival of the Messiah. When Jesus came to John to be Baptized and John protested Jesus said,” Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness”. Would Judas be repenting and turning from his sin? Obviously not. Would Jesus take baptism so lightly that He would baptize a devil? Jesus said He always did the things that pleased the Father, would it be pleasing to the Father for Jesus to baptize Judas?

    Regarding works leading to salvation. Jesus said, “If anyone loves me he will keep My word”. Does the unsaved man love Jesus? Can any man love Jesus without the Holy Spirit? How much work plus baptism must one do to qualify for salvation? For example, consider the thief on the cross. Jesus said that he would enter paradise. But what will judgment be like for him when the books are opened? More than 99.9% of his life will be sin. His salvation will be secured by the blood of Christ, not by any amount of work.

    “But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice. “For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Mat 9:13
    Last edited by disciple; 04-06-2017 at 07:20 AM.

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi DB,

    A few comments on previous posts.

    First the belief you hold that Jesus would baptize Judas,knowing he was a devil.
    Hi Disciple:

    I accept Jesus Christ chose Judas to be an apostle--knowing what he was.

    In our time, Baptism is a testimony that the participant has trusted in Christ as Savior and they are identifying themselves by submitting to baptism. In the time of John the Baptist baptism was for confession of sin and repentance, for those who turned from their sin and were waiting for the arrival of the Messiah. When Jesus came to John to be Baptized and John protested Jesus said,” Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness”. Would Judas be repenting and turning from his sin? Obviously not. Would Jesus take baptism so lightly that He would baptize a devil? Jesus said He always did the things that pleased the Father, would it be pleasing to the Father for Jesus to baptize Judas?
    I suppose the same question could be used concerning Christ choosing Judas to be an apostle of Jesus Christ, could it not?

    Regarding works leading to salvation. Jesus said, “If anyone loves me he will keep My word”. Does the unsaved man love Jesus? Can any man love Jesus without the Holy Spirit? How much work plus baptism must one do to qualify for salvation? For example, consider the thief on the cross. Jesus said that he would enter paradise. But what will judgment be like for him when the books are opened? More than 99.9% of his life will be sin. His salvation will be secured by the blood of Christ, not by any amount of work.
    The scriptures testify only those who walk in the Light receive of the Blood of Christ unto the remission of sins:

    1 John 1:7---King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


    Disciple--could you give us any NT scripture which states Jesus Christ extends Hos grace unto life, as a personal reception--- to the disobedient?

    Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    “But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice. “For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Mat 9:13
    Those who obey Christ--receive of His grace unto life:

    Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


    I believe what most desire, is--God's grace unto life-- without their obedience.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Amen!.......
    Yes, and you must skip every other part of that to make your point. As everyone will confess God, you then make God out to either choose those who do good or those who do bad. Is this how you see him? We are puppets and those who do evil do so because of him?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  8. #283
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    Hey DB you said,

    <Disciple--could you give us any NT scripture which states Jesus Christ extends His grace unto life, as a personal reception--- to the disobedient?>

    The following scripture is the first real obedience one can have, the unsaved do not work for God only for themselves. When one hears the Gospel and believes(faith comes by hearing, not by work) they are born again.

    "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:9-13

  9. #284
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    Hi DB,

    When someone goes to a wake, you usually see the body lying in the casket. Have you ever seen the deceased get up and greet the mourners, comb his hair or straighten his tie. No, he can't do any of those things because he's dead.
    “And you He made alive, who were dead in tresp***es and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
    But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in tresp***es, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” Eph. 2:1,4-5

    If someone is doing works before salvation, by what power are they doing these works or acts of obedience?
    Last edited by disciple; 04-06-2017 at 12:23 PM.

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi DB,

    When someone goes to a wake, you usually see the body lying in the casket. Have you ever seen the deceased get up and greet the mourners, comb his hair or straighten his tie. No, he can't do any of those things because he's dead.
    “And you He made alive, who were dead in tresp***es and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
    But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in tresp***es, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” Eph. 2:1,4-5

    If someone is doing works before salvation, by what power are they doing these works or acts of obedience?
    They can't answer that one. . .It would contradict the lies they choose to believe.

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Unfortunately, it is not Bibically sound doctrine. If there is no effort we can make, there is no works, and if there is no works then faith is dead and if faith is dead, there is no salvation.


    Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


    Hey Julie, when did YOU die on the cross? WHOSE SINS HAVE YOU DIED TO PAY THE PRICE OF?

    Oh, that's right. . .JESUS DID IT ALL. YOUR GOOD WORKS CAN'T SAVE YOU FROM ANYTHING.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post


    Hey Julie, when did YOU die on the cross? WHOSE SINS HAVE YOU DIED TO PAY THE PRICE OF?

    Oh, that's right. . .JESUS DID IT ALL. YOUR GOOD WORKS CAN'T SAVE YOU FROM ANYTHING.
    Clearly, we can't be saved without God's grace, but clearly, He expects something from us.

    Dberrie posted this earlier in this thread:

    Hebrews 5:9--King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    They can't answer that one. . .It would contradict the lies they choose to believe.
    Just waiting for Dberrie to get back as this is who he is having a discussion with.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  14. #289
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Clearly, we can't be saved without God's grace, but clearly, He expects something from us.

    \

    The guy did ask Jesus what was needed....

    http://biblehub.com/john/6-29.htm


    John 6:29
    28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
    Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.




    So what is the only work again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Clearly, we can't be saved without God's grace, but clearly, He expects something from us.

    So you think God NEEDS YOUR HELP (After all, YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO OFFER when in your SPIRITUALLY DEAD STATE) to get your sins forgiven and to save your soul from eternal hell. . .; what JESUS DID AT THE CROSS was NOT ENOUGH, huh? IS THAT what you think?

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The guy did ask Jesus what was needed....

    http://biblehub.com/john/6-29.htm


    John 6:29
    28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
    Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.




    So what is the only work again?
    What is it to believe in him?

    Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    So are you ***erting that to believe in God is to NOT love him and NOT keep his commandments? Do you ***ert that to believe in him is to ignore what he states?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post

    So you think God NEEDS YOUR HELP (After all, YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO OFFER when in your SPIRITUALLY DEAD STATE) to get your sins forgiven and to save your soul from eternal hell. . .; what JESUS DID AT THE CROSS was NOT ENOUGH, huh? IS THAT what you think?
    So you think you don't need to love him? Is that too much for you to do? Is that too much for Him to ask?-the one who died for you and me?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  18. #293
    alanmolstad
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    We are saved by grace though faith. ....just like the thief on the cross

  19. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    We are saved by grace though faith. ....just like the thief on the cross
    And thats the message of the Christian church here...You want to know what man can do?....look to the thief on the cross for your answer.

    It's faith.......it's all about faith.


    Thats all he had to offer the Lord.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    So you think you don't need to love him? Is that too much for you to do? Is that too much for Him to ask?-the one who died for you and me?
    Don't you realize that you can't love Him without the Holy Spirit?
    "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." Gal 5:22-23a

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    We are saved by grace though faith. ....just like the thief on the cross
    Even the thief DID something, he humbled himself and came to Christ. If it was faith alone, he would have just hung there and done nothing.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Even the thief DID something, he humbled himself and came to Christ. If it was faith alone, he would have just hung there and done nothing.
    Don't you have to believe before you act?

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Don't you realize that you can't love Him without the Holy Spirit?
    "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." Gal 5:22-23a
    And how does one get the Holy Spirit? Must one do something? The Book of Mormon teaches us that we must COME unto Christ.

    So, let's get to your experience, do you find that love takes effort--to love your wife, to love your children? Even if the feeling is there, do you ever find yourself COMING to Christ in humility so that your love can be perfected? Do you feel your spirit *****ed to action when you do something wrong? Do you feel remorse and ACT as the spirit directs? Or are you a puppet that has no thoughts or choices of your own?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    What is it to believe in him?

    Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    So are you ***erting that to believe in God is to NOT love him and NOT keep his commandments? Do you ***ert that to believe in him is to ignore what he states?


    So IS IT YOUR ***ERTION that when you are
    SPIRITUALLY DEAD in your sins, you can 'do good works' to help God save your soul?

    That is what it sounds like you are saying.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Don't you have to believe before you act?
    Sometimes it starts with just a hope or a desire for something better.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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