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Thread: no need to restore the truth

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post


    So IS IT YOUR ***ERTION that when you are
    SPIRITUALLY DEAD in your sins, you can 'do good works' to help God save your soul?

    That is what it sounds like you are saying.
    Christian,it would be really nice if you gave up your prejudice about what I believe and listen to what I say, or if not, just what the scriptures say.

    Why are we commanded to love God with all of our heart, soul and mind if God expects nothing from us?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And how does one get the Holy Spirit? Must one do something? The Book of Mormon teaches us that we must COME unto Christ.

    So, let's get to your experience, do you find that love takes effort--to love your wife, to love your children? Even if the feeling is there, do you ever find yourself COMING to Christ in humility so that your love can be perfected? Do you feel your spirit *****ed to action when you do something wrong? Do you feel remorse and ACT as the spirit directs? Or are you a puppet that has no thoughts or choices of your own?
    Hi Julie
    You receive the Holy Spirit when you are born again, you are born again when you hear the Gospel, believe it is truth, confess and forsake your sin and trust that Jesus is willing and able to redeem you. Thank about John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." One can't "do" anything without first being in the vine.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Why are we commanded to love God with all of our heart, soul and mind if God expects nothing from us?
    Hi again Julie,
    What an overwhelming ***ignment, very hard to do.
    In our own strength, none of us can live up to this obligation, but the Lord has provided a way for Christians to do the impossible. The indwelling Holy Spirit works to produce His fruit in us, and first on the list is love (Galatians 5:22). In fact, the other eight qualities are really just descriptions of its expression.
    Whenever we demonstrate kindness, patience, or gentleness, we see the Lord’s love at work through us, especially when the other person has been unkind and doesn’t deserve such pleasant treatment. This fruit is not produced by trying harder to muster good will toward someone who is irritating or hard to get along with. Instead, think of the process more like sap running through a branch on a grape-vine. The branch doesn’t make grapes; the sap does. In the same way, the Spirit flows through us, producing God’s love in us, so that we can p*** it on to Him and others.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie
    You receive the Holy Spirit when you are born again, you are born again when you hear the Gospel, believe it is truth, confess and forsake your sin and trust that Jesus is willing and able to redeem you. Thank about John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." One can't "do" anything without first being in the vine.
    The question becomes, do we have choice? Do we choose to turn to Christ?

    I say yes. Do you agree? Can the Holy Ghost instruct us prior to being born again if we ask?

    Acts 10: 1-5 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:


    Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,


    Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

    (so they went back to Cornelius)

    Act 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing. And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.


    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    (Then Peter preaches of Christ and the disciples witness of his resurrection and commandment to teach others.)


    Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    In this account, what happened first? Was Cornelius act righteously first and then receive a witness or the other way around? When did Cornelius and his followers receive a witness of the Holy Ghost about Christ? Who is accepted by Christ? Those who receive the Holy Ghost first or those who "worketh righteousness"?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie
    You receive the Holy Spirit when you are born again, you are born again when you hear the Gospel, believe it is truth, confess and forsake your sin and trust that Jesus is willing and able to redeem you. Thank about John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." One can't "do" anything without first being in the vine.
    one of the best posts I have seen yet on this topic!

    50 points for you!

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    one of the best posts I have seen yet on this topic!

    50 points for you!
    Yes, you get a witness of Christ from the Holy Ghost once you believe, but look at Cornelius who was a good man who had no knowledge of Jesus Christ--yet, he was good before, he worked righteousness and had a vision prior to learning of Jesus Christ. He had a witness from the Holy Ghost after he heard of Christ, however, he "worketh righteousness" and received a vision prior to this.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi again Julie,
    What an overwhelming ***ignment, very hard to do.
    In our own strength, none of us can live up to this obligation, but the Lord has provided a way for Christians to do the impossible. The indwelling Holy Spirit works to produce His fruit in us, and first on the list is love (Galatians 5:22). In fact, the other eight qualities are really just descriptions of its expression.
    Whenever we demonstrate kindness, patience, or gentleness, we see the Lord’s love at work through us, especially when the other person has been unkind and doesn’t deserve such pleasant treatment. This fruit is not produced by trying harder to muster good will toward someone who is irritating or hard to get along with. Instead, think of the process more like sap running through a branch on a grape-vine. The branch doesn’t make grapes; the sap does. In the same way, the Spirit flows through us, producing God’s love in us, so that we can p*** it on to Him and others.
    I have no disagreement with your thoughts here. The only point of difference is what part do we play in the process. You can look to my post on Cornelius to see more scriptural reference of one who did not know Christ and yet found Christ through his own desire to seek Him. (One truth is often the opposite of another profound truth. )


    Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Yes, you get a witness of Christ from the Holy Ghost once you believe, but look at Cornelius who was a good man who had no knowledge of Jesus Christ--yet, he was good before,
    Mark 10:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Mark 10:18
    Yes, but once again--the point is that Cornelius was not aware of Jesus Christ and did not receive the witness of the Holy Ghost until later.

    Or, are you arguing that this statement is not accurate "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #310
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    Me?

    im simply pointing out the scriptures.....as for you?...thats unclear.

  11. #311
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    This is how it is....

    We are saved by grace through faith,,,and not by works.

    This does not meas we are without works....


    But it does mean we are not saved by works.
    it also does not mean we are saved by grace though works..


    and yes, it also means that we are not saved by grace though faith and some extra works....




    We are save by grace though faith, and that alone....nothing else...nothing added...nothing more we need to doi.

    No works at all,,,,nothing,,,zero!,,,,zip!,,,,,,,goose egg!


    no works mean no works....

    We are simply never in a million-billion years saved by works,,,or by faith and works....no matter how great the works are...




    Works are a moot point!

    They dont count, nor add to our salvation!....






    and thank GOD!

  12. #312
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    so we are saved by grace though faith alone, but faith is never alone!

  13. #313
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    this is why Jesus could tell us to keep his Commandments, yet the thief on the cross never kept any but was saved.
    because he whom has faith fulfills all the law..


    For to whom much is given much is required.





    But the "needed" is only faith in the one true God, and in his only Son and the resurrection.....in other words,,,"Faith" in the Jesus of the Bible.

  14. #314
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    so,,,in the end, all men are the same as the thief on the cross...

    We all come to the Lord, empty handed,,,lacking any works that amount to squat....

    We can only do what we are told we can, and that is to "believe"....



    for if we have faith, god will, credit this faith to us are perfect righteousness....and we will stand before our eternal judge, blameless and sin-free....

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    so we are saved by grace though faith alone, but faith is never alone!
    That's what I call a confused faith.

  16. #316
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    and so this is why we say we are saved by grace though faith...and not by works.



    so we are not saved by faith and works.




    We are saved by grace through faith alone, but faith is never alone.


    Have we ever said that faith is without works?.......ever?........anyone?

    Has anyone said we Christians have faith without works?.......ever?....anyone here?.....any Christian at all..????????

    Is it written down someplace else?.....any Christian site?......





    What I see is this - we Christians point out that we are saved by grace though faith alone, but that faith is never really alone....for the natural flow of works comes from our faith, for we are saved to produce good works.....even if its not us that does the good works but the Lord that works his works and plans though us.

    For there is a justification of faith and a Justification of works.

    For faith = before God
    For works = before men.







    any questions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    That's what I call a confused faith.
    Thank you! These arguments that go back and forth saying yes, but no, but yes again get dizzying.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Default There is nothing to be 'restored.'

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Christian,it would be really nice if you gave up your prejudice about what I believe and listen to what I say, or if not, just what the scriptures say.

    Why are we commanded to love God with all of our heart, soul and mind if God expects nothing from us?
    God expects nothing from us TO MAKE US HIS CLEANSED CHILDREN. My own children are expected to do nothing to BE my children. They could even fall into a cesspool and REMAIN MY CHILDREN, though they might SMELL BAD.

    But as teens they WERE expected to mow the lawn, carry out the trash, make their beds, clean their rooms etc, NOT TO BE MY KIDS, NOT TO GET INTO OUR HOUSE, but because it was their DUTY to do so out of love for their parents.

    We don't have to "DO STUFF" to 'earn our way to heaven. or to 'help God out' in getting us there. We ARE told to do stuff because we LOVE GOD, NOT TO 'get into heaven' or to 'be allowed into our home,'

    IF you believe that YOU must 'clean up your act' to be one of God's children, then your man-made religion has taught you falsehoods. YOU have nothing 'spotless' in YOURSELF to offer Him as a sacrifice. ONLY JESUS qualified to do that.

    There is nothing to restore. The TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST has been present for about 2,000 years now, and HIS BODY the church HAS NEVER DIED, OR EVEN BEEN WEAKENED.

    There have been MANY APOSTASIES in Christianity just as there have been in joey smith's own religion (If you would like a list of 150 or so of them, I can provide it for you. . .I've posted it to this forum before.

    BUT THERE HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN ANY COMPLETE APOSTASY, any "loss" of our authority, OR of our scriptures OR of our RIGHT TO ACT FOR AND PROCLAIM GOD'S GOOD NEWS TO THE WORLD.

    But then smith's religion has changed with the public sentiments of the times. They keep trying to become more like mainline Christianity, while still believing in a 'spirit-brother-of-satan-'jesus'. But it will never work.

    Blacks seem to no longer 'bear the mark of Cain' and now they can be part of your religion's 'priesthood,' even though previous presidents of your religion have called them 'lower' than whites, and stated CLEARLY that they could never hold your 'priesthood.'

    Your cult has lied to you, Julie
    Last edited by Christian; 04-10-2017 at 04:32 PM.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    God expects nothing from us TO MAKE US HIS CLEANSED CHILDREN. My own children are expected to do nothing to BE my children. They could even fall into a cesspool and REMAIN MY CHILDREN, though they might SMELL BAD.

    But as teens they WERE expected to mow the lawn, carry out the trash, make their beds, clean their rooms etc, NOT TO BE MY KIDS, NOT TO GET INTO OUR HOUSE, but because it was their DUTY to do so out of love for their parents.

    We don't have to "DO STUFF" to 'earn our way to heaven. or to 'help God out' in getting us there. We ARE told to do stuff because we LOVE GOD, NOT TO 'get into heaven' or to 'be allowed into our home,'

    IF you believe that YOU must 'clean up your act' to be one of God's children, then your man-made religion has taught you falsehoods. YOU have nothing 'spotless' in YOURSELF to offer Him as a sacrifice. ONLY JESUS qualified to do that.

    There is nothing to restore. The TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST has been present for about 2,000 years now, and HIS BODY the church HAS NEVER DIED, OR EVEN BEEN WEAKENED.

    There have been MANY APOSTASIES in Christianity just as there have been in joey smith's own religion (If you would like a list of 150 or so of them, I can provide it for you. . .I've posted it to this forum before.

    BUT THERE HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN ANY COMPLETE APOSTASY, any "loss" of our authority, OR of our scriptures OR of our RIGHT TO ACT FOR AND PROCLAIM GOD'S GOOD NEWS TO THE WORLD.

    But then smith's religion has changed with the public sentiments of the times. They keep trying to become more like mainline Christianity, while still believing in a 'spirit-brother-of-satan-'jesus'. But it will never work.

    Blacks seem to no longer 'bear the mark of Cain' and now they can be part of your religion's 'priesthood,' even though previous presidents of your religion have called them 'lower' than whites, and stated CLEARLY that they could never hold your 'priesthood.'

    Your cult has lied to you, Julie
    Nice, but not a scripturally backed. While we are saved by grace, he extends his grace to those who love him; hence, God commands us to love him.


    Act 10:34 -35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    (Notice, it is referring to the book of life?)
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Have we ever said that faith is without works?.......ever?........anyone?
    The faith alone theology preaches one obtains salvation through a faith without works.

    If you disagree--please list what works you believe one adds to faith in obtaining salvation.

    Matthew 16:27---King James Version (KJV)
    27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    The faith alone theology preaches one obtains salvation through a faith without works.

    .
    WRONG!.....

    so wrong,,,so very wrong....

    I think you might want to back up and try to find a quote from me to support some of your silly ideas from time to time before you post them thinking they are what I believe...Might be less embarr***ing for you later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    So you think you don't need to love him? Is that too much for you to do? Is that too much for Him to ask?-the one who died for you and me?
    When did LOVING GOD become a 'need?' OF COURSE I LOVE HIM. You should too. BUT THE ONE WE LOVE MUST BE THE REAL ONE, not a 'spirit-brother-of-satan' or a spirit brother of ANY demons. Following joey smith's demonic gods will send you nowhere but to hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Even the thief DID something, he humbled himself and came to Christ. If it was faith alone, he would have just hung there and done nothing.

    Nice THEORY, but that is all it is. . .YOUR THEORY. ALL YOU HAVE is your own crazy SPECULATION that he was humbled by God.

    ALL HE DID was to BELIEVE, THEN AFTER HE BELIEVED, tell the others.

    HIS FAITH saved him. NOT his telling the others.

    My Father-in-law believed. He lay in bed and did nothing to make himself believe. BUT HE WENT TO BE WITH JESUS a few days later.

    My sister went to be with Jesus 2 weeks ago. No 'ordinance-keeping' was required.

    joey smith lied to you.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I have no disagreement with your thoughts here. The only point of difference is what part do we play in the process. You can look to my post on Cornelius to see more scriptural reference of one who did not know Christ and yet found Christ through his own desire to seek Him. (One truth is often the opposite of another profound truth. )


    Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    Hi Julie,

    You continue to put the cart before horse. Once your spirit was dead. You had no communion with God at all. You didn’t have eyes for things of the Spirit. You didn’t have a love for God, or an interest in the Bible. Everything was dead. And then something happened. You were touched by the Spirit and you are alive. Your spirit is alive. The Spirit gives life to the spirit.
    Everybody needs that. I need it. Everybody in the world must be born again or they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. We are all born dead, just flesh. Paul said, “The mind of the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God”. Rom 8:7
    It cannot do the things that God tells it to do. We are not getting anywhere with the demands of Jesus without being born again.
    Jesus says, “The wind ****s where it wills. You don’t know where it came from. You don’t know where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit” John 3:8 This is a sovereign free work of God. You don’t make it happen by all of a sudden loving Jesus or by doing works of obedience. One day you are bored by the Bible. You feel you have no need of Christ. Next day, you can’t get enough of this book and he is your Savior and Lord. What happened? A miracle happened. The new birth happened. But your works didn’t cause it to happen.
    What does the new birth have to do with your faith? We get an answer in 1 John 5:1 “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.” It doesn’t say everyone who loves Jesus or everyone who obeys Jesus, that comes next. If you are a believer, you have been born of God. It’s not the other way around. If I need to be born of God, I in my deadness do not now believe, as if a miracle will happen because I have now believed. No, the faith is the miracle. You have seen him as infinitely worthy, and you trust him. That is what God does for us, gives us a measure of faith.

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