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Thread: no need to restore the truth

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie,

    You continue to put the cart before horse. Once your spirit was dead. You had no communion with God at all. You didn’t have eyes for things of the Spirit. You didn’t have a love for God, or an interest in the Bible. Everything was dead. And then something happened. You were touched by the Spirit and you are alive. Your spirit is alive. The Spirit gives life to the spirit.
    Everybody needs that. I need it. Everybody in the world must be born again or they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. We are all born dead, just flesh. Paul said, “The mind of the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God”. Rom 8:7
    It cannot do the things that God tells it to do. We are not getting anywhere with the demands of Jesus without being born again.
    Jesus says, “The wind ****s where it wills. You don’t know where it came from. You don’t know where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit” John 3:8 This is a sovereign free work of God. You don’t make it happen by all of a sudden loving Jesus or by doing works of obedience. One day you are bored by the Bible. You feel you have no need of Christ. Next day, you can’t get enough of this book and he is your Savior and Lord. What happened? A miracle happened. The new birth happened. But your works didn’t cause it to happen.
    What does the new birth have to do with your faith? We get an answer in 1 John 5:1 “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.” It doesn’t say everyone who loves Jesus or everyone who obeys Jesus, that comes next. If you are a believer, you have been born of God. It’s not the other way around. If I need to be born of God, I in my deadness do not now believe, as if a miracle will happen because I have now believed. No, the faith is the miracle. You have seen him as infinitely worthy, and you trust him. That is what God does for us, gives us a measure of faith.
    So, are you saying that God chooses whom He saves and the rest he leaves to dead? How does this scripture fit with that thought?


    Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    With your thinking, wouldn't God save everyone--bring every spirit back to life so that they seek him?

    Also, when John 3 speaks of being "born again"--to you, when were we born of the spirit the first time? As you referenced how the spirit works like the wind--and what it means to be born again. Clearly, Christ is speaking of to Nicodemus of a spiritual rebirth. So, when were you spiritually born the first time?

    Lastly, your post doesn't address this scripture found in Acts 10 " Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Remember, Cornelius had no idea of Jesus Christ was until after he received a vision and went to Peter. It was Peter who then testified of Christ and only after that, we are told "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

    I have posted about Cornelius before, but you completely ignored this scripture, nor explained how it works with your theories.
    Last edited by BigJulie; 04-11-2017 at 08:51 PM.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    The question becomes, do we have choice? Do we choose to turn to Christ?

    I say yes. Do you agree? Can the Holy Ghost instruct us prior to being born again if we ask?

    Acts 10: 1-5 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:


    Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,


    Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

    (so they went back to Cornelius)

    Act 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing. And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.


    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    (Then Peter preaches of Christ and the disciples witness of his resurrection and commandment to teach others.)


    Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    In this account, what happened first? Was Cornelius act righteously first and then receive a witness or the other way around? When did Cornelius and his followers receive a witness of the Holy Ghost about Christ? Who is accepted by Christ? Those who receive the Holy Ghost first or those who "worketh righteousness"?
    Hi Julie,

    Even though Cornelius was, devout, just, generous and prayed daily, that didn't save him. He was still spiritually dead, not able to obey God. The motive behind his many good traits were arrived at by human reasoning. I know this because of Acts 11:13-17 which you neglected to include,"Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” Cornelius could have been a great guy for the rest of his life but without the words he and his family heard and the faith God gave them to believe he would be lost.

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie,

    Even though Cornelius was, devout, just, generous and prayed daily, that didn't save him. He was still spiritually dead, not able to obey God. The motive behind his many good traits were arrived at by human reasoning. I know this because of Acts 11:13-17 which you neglected to include,"Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” Cornelius could have been a great guy for the rest of his life but without the words he and his family heard and the faith God gave them to believe he would be lost.
    I wasn't asking about what saved him (I understand we are saved by Christ), I was asking which came first--the act of obedience or the Holy Spirit. Cornelius received a revelation for which he received the scripture you refer to. Before he heard of Christ or had the Holy Ghost, Cornelius was a devout man who then received a revelation. Do you deny he was obedient to the vision he had seen? So which came first in this case? The obedience or the Holy Ghost--you stated he can't obey God because he was spiritually dead. Do you deny that he received a revelation from God and obeyed it prior to receiving the saving information of Jesus Christ?

    How do you feel about this scripture: Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    How do you understand Acts 10: 34-35 in light of your theories?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I wasn't asking about what saved him (I understand we are saved by Christ), I was asking which came first--the act of obedience or the Holy Spirit. Cornelius received a revelation for which he received the scripture you refer to. Before he heard of Christ or had the Holy Ghost, Cornelius was a devout man who then received a revelation. Do you deny he was obedient to the vision he had seen? So which came first in this case? The obedience or the Holy Ghost--you stated he can't obey God because he was spiritually dead. Do you deny that he received a revelation from God and obeyed it prior to receiving the saving information of Jesus Christ?

    How do you feel about this scripture: Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    How do you understand Acts 10: 34-35 in light of your theories?
    Hi Julie,
    You must first acknowledge, as the scripture says, “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”Heb. 11:6 And also Rom. 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
    God must have revealed Himself to us by His grace, in the reality and certainty of His existence and character, before there can be any desire to seek Him. It is by grace that we receive faith, again without which it is impossible to please God, or do works of righteousness acceptable in his sight. Men do many acts you and I would accept as righteous, but our standard is not God’s standard.
    Acts 10:34-35 tells us that while God calls from "every nation," only some, those who fear and obey, are acceptable to Him. What you are avoiding is that “fearing” God and obeying God are not idea’s that originate in unsaved people, it originates with God.

  5. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie,
    You must first acknowledge, as the scripture says, “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”Heb. 11:6 And also Rom. 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
    God must have revealed Himself to us by His grace, in the reality and certainty of His existence and character, before there can be any desire to seek Him. It is by grace that we receive faith, again without which it is impossible to please God, or do works of righteousness acceptable in his sight. Men do many acts you and I would accept as righteous, but our standard is not God’s standard.
    Acts 10:34-35 tells us that while God calls from "every nation," only some, those who fear and obey, are acceptable to Him. What you are avoiding is that “fearing” God and obeying God are not idea’s that originate in unsaved people, it originates with God.
    I completely agree that our standard is not God's standard.

    But based on these scriptures:

    Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

    and:


    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Do you believe that there is ANY person who seeks God whom he will not answer (even the gentile Cornelius)? And why do you think Cornelius received a revelation from God in that pre-Christ-knowledge/Holy Ghost state? Can you p**** Acts 10:34-35 for me as to what you believe this means?

    (I get that we cannot save ourselves, you don't need to repeat that. This has more to do with our actions and how God responds to them, or our inactions and how God responds.)

    You can p**** this one too--while you are at it and since this scripture backs my thinking more than your point: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”Heb. 11:6
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    I completely agree that our standard is not God's standard.

    But based on these scriptures:

    Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

    and:


    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Do you believe that there is ANY person who seeks God whom he will not answer (even the gentile Cornelius)? And why do you think Cornelius received a revelation from God in that pre-Christ-knowledge/Holy Ghost state? Can you p**** Acts 10:34-35 for me as to what you believe this means?

    (I get that we cannot save ourselves, you don't need to repeat that. This has more to do with our actions and how God responds to them, or our inactions and how God responds.)

    You can p**** this one too--while you are at it and since this scripture backs my thinking more than your point: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”Heb. 11:6
    Hello Julie,

    John 12:47 tells us that Jesus came as a Savior, it is not the mission of a Savior to condemn or Judge even if some He came to redeem reject the message.
    Again the scriptures tell us there is none good or righteous, none who seeks after God and all are dead in tresp***es and sin until they are born again.
    God is sovereign ,He dealt with Cornelius according to His will but Cornelius was not born again until he heard and believed the gospel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hello Julie,

    John 12:47 tells us that Jesus came as a Savior, it is not the mission of a Savior to condemn or Judge even if some He came to redeem reject the message.
    Again the scriptures tell us there is none good or righteous, none who seeks after God and all are dead in tresp***es and sin until they are born again.
    God is sovereign ,He dealt with Cornelius according to His will but Cornelius was not born again until he heard and believed the gospel.
    I get that Cornelius was not born again until after he learned of Christ--I also understand that the mission of the Savior is to redeem man. I also understand the idea that without some belief in God, one would not ask, seek or do anything in His direction. However, the point is that Cornelius, without knowledge of Christ was a devout man who "feareth him and "worketh righteousness" (scripture words, not mine) and prayed.

    So....you appear to be avoiding the real question, which is can we be obedient first, can we seek first, and will God respond to this?

    What do you think of this scripture, exactly what does it mean to you?

    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Especially in light that Cornelius did not learn of Jesus Christ or receive the Holy Spirit until AFTER he was "devout" and prayerful, even as a Gentile and even before he had any idea of who Jesus Christ was.

    You also completely ignored the other scripture you posted regarding: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”Heb. 11:6

    What does God reward those who diligently seek Him?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    julie posted:

    And how does one get the Holy Spirit? Must one do something? The Book of Mormon teaches us that we must COME unto Christ.

    But GOD taught us that you CANNOT SOME to Jesus Christ unless you are DRAWN to Him BY GOD.

    John 6:65
    65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
    NKJV

    HOW do you think that spiritually DEAD folks who cannot understand spiritual things could on their own just 'willy nilly' 'decide' to come to Jesus?


    So, let's get to your experience, do you find that love takes effort--to love your wife, to love your children?

    ​LOVE (agape. . .UNCONDITIONAL LOVE) is not just a 'mushy feeling.' It is a COMMITMENT. And at times such AGAPE love is difficult.

    Even if the feeling is there, do you ever find yourself COMING to Christ in humility so that your love can be perfected?

    I love my wife even at times when I DON'T 'feel like it.' Perhaps you should think a little more about the THREE TYPES of love expressed by GOD. Eros (physical 'feeling') Phileo (Brotherly love) and Agape (UNCONDITIONAL love, such as JESUS SHOWED when He died for us on the cross.)


    Do you feel your spirit *****ed to action when you do something wrong? Do you feel remorse and ACT as the spirit directs? Or are you a puppet that has no thoughts or choices of your own?

    I am a Christian who loves and serves the Lord (the REAL One, not any demonic 'spirit-brother-of-satan' that the mormons follow).

    My conscience is *****ed by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD Who lives within me. My body is His Temple.

    I'm sorry if your religion teaches you that you have to GO TO a "temple." The Holy Spirit LIVES within mine. And there is nothing 'puppet' about that. It is only what GOD has said of HIS PEOPLE.

    (Rom 8:9, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

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    And still no addressing what happened with Cornelius, nor this scripture:

    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    And still no addressing what happened with Cornelius, nor this scripture:

    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
    Im not really sure of the context of your discussion, nor what part is the question about him?

    But I can answer as to what i get out of the story about him.

    The full story about him shows us that although he was a good man and led a life that showed he tried to be just, it also shows us that being a good man is just not the same as being saved or a christian.

    What happens in the story is that an angel shows up and tells him to send for Peter.
    and more or less at the same time Peter is given a vision and is told to go see him.


    Now when Peter gets to the guy's house he starts off telling them the things they already knew.
    The things that they already knew were that God was in Christ, and that Christ did many good works and healed people.

    We learn this in the words - "6 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.


    and ...

    You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.



    So its very clear that Cornelius and his family and friends knew about the life and ministry of Jesus.
    But what is also clear is that that is where their understanding stopped.

    They clearly do not know or, or at least believe in the stories told about the resurrection of Jesus yet.

    This is where Peter now starts to tell them about the things that are why they are all there.

    Peter starts to tell them about the resurrection.

    Peter says now - "They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

    The Peter gets to the very heart of the salvation message by telling them about how to have their sins forgiven - " All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

    Peter teaches that to have FAITH in the resurrection is what brings salvation and forgiveness .

    The people believe...they put their faith in the message that they have now heard, and they become saved.
    As a sign to all that they truly now are saved, the Holy Spirit comes on them with power and they speak in tongues.

    The tongues are a sign that salvation had now finally come to them.

    At that point Peter has them all baptized into the church.





    all this is in full agreement with what we teach how men are saved..
    For we are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post


    So IS IT YOUR ***ERTION that when you are SPIRITUALLY DEAD in your sins, you can 'do good works' to help God save your soul?

    That is what it sounds like you are saying.
    Christian,it would be really nice if you gave up your prejudice about what I believe and listen to what I say, or if not, just what the scriptures say.

    Why are we commanded to love God with all of our heart, soul and mind if God expects nothing from us?
    Why can't you answer SIMPLE QUESTIONS without false accusations of 'prejudice' or other attempted diversions from them?

    Are you AFRAID TO TRY to answer the HONEST QUESTIONS?

    Do you simply NOT HAVE any HONEST ANSWERS to the questions?

    The Question STILL REMAINS. . ."So IS IT YOUR ***ERTION that when you are SPIRITUALLY DEAD in your sins, you can 'do good works' to help God save your soul?"

    That REMAINS what it sounds like you are saying.


    Now instead of falsely attacking ME, PLEASE TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Im not really sure of the context of your discussion, nor what part is the question about him?

    But I can answer as to what i get out of the story about him.

    The full story about him shows us that although he was a good man and led a life that showed he tried to be just, it also shows us that being a good man is just not the same as being saved or a christian.

    What happens in the story is that an angel shows up and tells him to send for Peter.
    and more or less at the same time Peter is given a vision and is told to go see him.


    Now when Peter gets to the guy's house he starts off telling them the things they already knew.
    The things that they already knew were that God was in Christ, and that Christ did many good works and healed people.

    We learn this in the words - "6 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.


    and ...

    You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.



    So its very clear that Cornelius and his family and friends knew about the life and ministry of Jesus.
    But what is also clear is that that is where their understanding stopped.

    They clearly do not know or, or at least believe in the stories told about the resurrection of Jesus yet.

    This is where Peter now starts to tell them about the things that are why they are all there.

    Peter starts to tell them about the resurrection.

    Peter says now - "They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

    The Peter gets to the very heart of the salvation message by telling them about how to have their sins forgiven - " All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

    Peter teaches that to have FAITH in the resurrection is what brings salvation and forgiveness .

    The people believe...they put their faith in the message that they have now heard, and they become saved.
    As a sign to all that they truly now are saved, the Holy Spirit comes on them with power and they speak in tongues.

    The tongues are a sign that salvation had now finally come to them.

    At that point Peter has them all baptized into the church.





    all this is in full agreement with what we teach how men are saved..
    For we are saved by Grace though faith, and not by works.

    Alan, I get the story, I also get that they were converted.

    I am curious what you think of this specific line?

    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    What does THIS line mean to you?
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Why can't you answer SIMPLE QUESTIONS without false accusations of 'prejudice' or other attempted diversions from them?

    Are you AFRAID TO TRY to answer the HONEST QUESTIONS?

    Do you simply NOT HAVE any HONEST ANSWERS to the questions?

    The Question STILL REMAINS. . ."So IS IT YOUR ***ERTION that when you are SPIRITUALLY DEAD in your sins, you can 'do good works' to help God save your soul?"

    That REMAINS what it sounds like you are saying.


    Now instead of falsely attacking ME, PLEASE TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. . .
    Christian, the problem is that you already have a preconceived idea of what I believe and when I explain what I believe, you call me names (biggie) and still cling to your preconceive beliefs. That is the very definition of prejudice.

    As far as your question:

    ."So [B]IS IT YOUR ***ERTION that when you are SPIRITUALLY DEAD in your sins, you can 'do good works' to help God save your soul?"
    No, my ***ertion is NOT that the spiritually dead can do good works and through that be saved, my ***ertion is "every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

    In other words, for those who do not know God, but seek him, He will answer.

    Do you disagree? I get the feeling that Christians on this site think that they do nothing--God hand-picks them and then begins doing works of righteousness through them--or that He IS a respecter of persons.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Christian, the problem is that you already have a preconceived idea of what I believe and when I explain what I believe, you call me names (biggie) and still cling to your preconceive beliefs. That is the very definition of prejudice.

    As far as your question:



    No, my ***ertion is NOT that the spiritually dead can do good works and through that be saved, my ***ertion is "every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

    In other words, for those who do not know God, but seek him, He will answer.

    Do you disagree? I get the feeling that Christians on this site think that they do nothing--God hand-picks them and then begins doing works of righteousness through them--or that He IS a respecter of persons.
    Hi Julie,

    Because the Bible makes it clear that there are none who are righteous, none who seek after God and all are spiritually dead, no one can seek God unless by His grace He initiates the seeking. That's the point, even with Cornelius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie,

    Because the Bible makes it clear that there are none who are righteous, none who seek after God and all are spiritually dead, no one can seek God unless by His grace He initiates the seeking. That's the point, even with Cornelius.
    So, to you God IS a respecter of persons and this statement is false:

    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    You directly do not believe the above verses as well as the following:

    Jhn 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Unlike you, I believe Christ came to save the world--not pick and choose whom he will save--which thought is completely unbiblical and very sad that anyone could spin the Bible to mean anything other than he reaches out with open arms to save us.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    What does THIS line mean to you?

    Then Peter opened his mouth, and said an odd way to talk about Peter saying something...I mean if he is going to say something I can guess without being told that he would have to open his mouth.
    The use of the phrase here then to me shows us that Peter had an expression on his face at the time that was odd....different...as if Peter was discovering something new to him...a sudden realization.


    Of a truth I perceive
    ...Peter is saying here that he now sees a truth, or now understands a truth in a brighter light of understanding. Peter might have had an idea about this stuff, but it is right here and now where Peter finally gets it...finally understands a few things better.


    God is no respecter of persons....in the context of a Jew at that time, we see that no matter how much a convert wanted to believe, the simple fact of life is he cant ever actually be equal to they who were born Jews.
    There is a wall in the temple where the born Jews could p***, and the rest could not regardless of how much they wanted to, and believed in the same God as the jew....they could never go beyond that wall.
    Peter here is now clearly reached the point of view that there is no real wall between Jew and non-Jew...

    But in every nation...while this phrase means to us "countries" like America and Russia etc, Im not sure that is what Peter was talking about. I think in the conte4xt of that age, the phrase "Nations" is mostly talking about the race and family tree of people.



    he that feareth him,...the word "feareth" = means in our age, to have concern for, to respect, to think about...to contemplate and understand.

    worketh righteousness...worketh = John 6:29 Righteousness = Galatians 3:6


    is accepted with him...= as seen at Romans 5:20...God is not offended by our sins to the point that he turns away from us..
    Rather God offers us more grace when more sin enters into our lives..

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Then Peter opened his mouth, and said an odd way to talk about Peter saying something...I mean if he is going to say something I can guess without being told that he would have to open his mouth.
    The use of the phrase here then to me shows us that Peter had an expression on his face at the time that was odd....different...as if Peter was discovering something new to him...a sudden realization.


    Of a truth I perceive
    ...Peter is saying here that he now sees a truth, or now understands a truth in a brighter light of understanding. Peter might have had an idea about this stuff, but it is right here and now where Peter finally gets it...finally understands a few things better.


    God is no respecter of persons....in the context of a Jew at that time, we see that no matter how much a convert wanted to believe, the simple fact of life is he cant ever actually be equal to they who were born Jews.
    There is a wall in the temple where the born Jews could p***, and the rest could not regardless of how much they wanted to, and believed in the same God as the jew....they could never go beyond that wall.
    Peter here is now clearly reached the point of view that there is no real wall between Jew and non-Jew...

    But in every nation...while this phrase means to us "countries" like America and Russia etc, Im not sure that is what Peter was talking about. I think in the conte4xt of that age, the phrase "Nations" is mostly talking about the race and family tree of people.



    he that feareth him,...the word "feareth" = means in our age, to have concern for, to respect, to think about...to contemplate and understand.

    worketh righteousness...worketh = John 6:29 Righteousness = Galatians 3:6


    is accepted with him...= as seen at Romans 5:20...God is not offended by our sins to the point that he turns away from us..
    Rather God offers us more grace when more sin enters into our lives..
    That's an awful lot of spinning to get around just saying God doesn't care who you are or where you come from, if you seek him and do what He asks, He will give you his grace.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    That's an awful lot of spinning to get around just saying God doesn't care who you are or where you come from, if you seek him and do what He asks, He will give you his grace.
    I believe the question you asked was "What does THIS line mean to you? "

    Thus my answer is to that issue as to what the Bible verse means to me personally...


    I wanted to be very clear as to what I think it all means, and so thats why I went over the whole thing mostly word-by-word...as I did not want to just 'sum it all up" only to end up skipping something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I believe the question you asked was "What does THIS line mean to you? "

    Thus my answer is to that issue as to what the Bible verse means to me personally...


    I wanted to be very clear as to what I think it all means, and so thats why I went over the whole thing mostly word-by-word...as I did not want to just 'sum it all up" only to end up skipping something.
    It is fine that you went over it word by word. However, your explanation with John 6:29 and Galations 3:6 ignore the point that Cornelius did not know of Christ prior to his revelation or receiving the Holy Ghost and therefore, according to your verses, would not be possible for Cornelius to "worketh righteousness." So, your explanation basically denies exactly what happened to Cornelius.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    The gifts only come once you believe.
    That is the sign in the story of salvation faith....the lone channel of grace

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    The gifts only come once you believe.
    That is the sign in the story of salvation faith....the lone channel of grace
    so before Peter spoke to the guy was he saved?...nope.

    But did he not have many good works that earned him salvation?.....nope.

    What are such works then for him?....they are the natural effect of faith.
    The man believed in the God of the Jews, and this caused the deeds to be part of his natural life...they are the effect of his faith.

    This is what the Bible is talking about with the idea of "Justification by works"
    men cant see the man's heart, but we can see his deeds, and the deeds of a man are said to reflect his heart.

    So we can know that based on the many good deeds of the man, that the guy was a believer in the God of the Jews.

    But he was not saved.

    Works dont save.

    Works are the effect of your faith on your life...works flow from faith...but they dont add to your faith, nor add to your salvation story..


    So the man was not yet saved regardless of his many good deeds...

    What do the deeds of the man show us today?....they show us that what Walter Martin said on the recordings I have posted are very true.....That no man goes to hell for simply never hearing about Jesus, rather we are judged according to the "light" we receive and how we respond to that light.

    The man in this story has openly received the dim-light , but had not seen the brighter light of the resurrection as of yet.

    The man had simply responded to the dim light he received....as is natural for us .









    Is there another person in the Bible that is just like this man before Peter spoke to him?....yes, the 12 men talked about at ACTS 19 are in the same situation.
    They had a faith in the dim light that had so far received, but they were not yet saved, not yet filled with the gifts of the Holy Spirit...
    They had the good deeds that you would expect to see from people who believed in the God of the Jews...But they were not saved.

    So it's only after they believe that they are saved and are filled with the Holy Spirit.

    So once again,,,,how are we saved?...We are saved by Grace though faith, and no by works...


    Works do not save us, but they do confirm to others that we are saved....for while we are saved by Grace though faith alone, faith is never alone.






    any questions so far on anything I have said to this point?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 04-18-2017 at 05:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    So, to you God IS a respecter of persons and this statement is false:

    Act 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    You directly do not believe the above verses as well as the following:

    Jhn 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Unlike you, I believe Christ came to save the world--not pick and choose whom he will save--which thought is completely unbiblical and very sad that anyone could spin the Bible to mean anything other than he reaches out with open arms to save us.
    Hi Julie,

    Of course I believe that Jesus came to save the world, just as I believe the scripture that tells us that God is no respecter of persons. What I don't believe is that men can decide to seek God of their own initiative, that they can work righteousness that is acceptable to God without His grace to guide them. The works that men deem righteous are but filthy rags in God's sight. Men are natural enemies of God and do not fear, or as Alan said, respect Him unless they are enabled by Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Hi Julie,

    Of course I believe that Jesus came to save the world, just as I believe the scripture that tells us that God is no respecter of persons. What I don't believe is that men can decide to seek God of their own initiative, that they can work righteousness that is acceptable to God without His grace to guide them. The works that men deem righteous are but filthy rags in God's sight. Men are natural enemies of God and do not fear, or as Alan said, respect Him unless they are enabled by Him.
    Where I agree with you:

    That Christ came into the world to save us.
    That we can't work righteousness that is acceptable to God without His grace to guide us (or that we can do this on our own and ignore the Spirit AND what He teaches.)
    That we are filthy rags in God's site.
    That the natural man is an enemy to God.

    Where I disagree with you:
    That we can't seek God "on our own initiative."


    Your comments made me realize how important it is to understand that we are children of God:


    Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


    Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    If we have no choice, then God is a cruel God--creating us to be filthy and then choosing whom he will save. Not Biblically backed at all.
    I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)--Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJulie View Post
    Where I agree with you:

    That Christ came into the world to save us.
    That we can't work righteousness that is acceptable to God without His grace to guide us (or that we can do this on our own and ignore the Spirit AND what He teaches.)
    That we are filthy rags in God's site.
    That the natural man is an enemy to God.

    Where I disagree with you:
    That we can't seek God "on our own initiative."


    Your comments made me realize how important it is to understand that we are children of God:


    Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


    Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    If we have no choice, then God is a cruel God--creating us to be filthy and then choosing whom he will save. Not Biblically backed at all.
    Hi Julie,
    The scripture you referenced from Romans is referring to the ***urance that born again believers can have, not referring to lost people. The scripture from Luke is talking about the gifts and influences of the Holy Spirit by which we are brought to know God and to believe and repent through the measure of faith first supplied by God. And by the way God did not create us to be filthy, man chose sin but I believe as 2 Peter 3 says God is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But all won't.

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