Why should we pick YOURS?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

If you want us to accept your claim, you do. If you don't care either way, then you don't need to bother.

I think you misunderstand something ...

Im not here because I "want" you to believe things that I say.

Rather all I truly "want" is to continue to write on topics that interest me and to be able to write in a style and with a look that allows my posts and the ideas contained in them to be easy to read.

I only "want" to post my views on topics that are of interest to me.

I only "want" to write in a manner that is easy to read.






But I don't stay up late at night worried, "Oh gosh will Erundur accept my claims today?"

I actually don't suggest anyone to go looking for their personal, life-changing, answer to all of life's questions on the internet message forums because they tend to be populated by way, way too many anonymous people who display mostly bad manners and few social skills.


Im my own life, I deal with all such serious questions in solitude ...

Here is just a place where I get a chance to flesh-out my views.
I like the chance I have been given here to really dig deeper into what is my understanding of God, the Bible, Religions, and the Universe.

[alanmolstad]

Now in the case of "why your church and not another?" my thoughts are as follows.


I have attended and worshiped at most of the many common Christian denominations you can find listed in the phone book....

I don't really have any problems with any of them.
Each has slight differences, but for the vast majority of the things you run into you find things are about the same one church to another.

This means that in the real world the biggest difference between different Christian denominations is found in the people that you meet at each.


So I have no problem suggesting any of the many churches I have attended in the past to be considered by a new believer.
If I saw that this or that church had a program that was more in-tune with the person I was talking to, that would be a good reason to suggest that church to them....

But in the end, it does not matter to me much what denomination a Christian attends as I have no problem also worshiping God there if I were to visit too.


But then we should address now the Question of the non-Christian CULTS.

The CULT issue is a matter that needs to be confronted!
The CULTS are not a type of thing I suggest any person get mixed up in.

There are many reasons why I think this is so, but the biggest reason is that if you die you go to Hell.

Hell is a very good reason to stay out of a CULT, regardless of how long your mom and dad were members.




Now with the Mormons in particular I find their whole religion to be founded and centered around the ideas that Mormon men want to have lots of sex with other women.

That is the corner stone of the Mormon faith, it was why Joe Smith invented his teachings to allow him to do.
and, Its why they finally had to shoot the skunk....(some people just need shooting I guess)

The whole Utah branch of the Mormon church is founded and driven by this quest to have sex with other women other than your wife, and this even is at the heart of their understanding of who and "what" God is.....and their own dreams of the after life.


Im many ways, the Mormon teachings and statements over the years about 'spirit wives, spirit babies' reminds me of the "70 Virgins" that Islam promises to guys that strap bombs on their bodies and **** up markets or crash planes.


Sex with many different Mormon women now is currently taught by many branches of Mormonism, and if its not possable where you are?....... you still have that as a goal in the afterlife.

[Erundur]

It appears that "christian" STILL CANNOT GIVE ONE REASON for ANYONE to believe any protestant cult is the right cult. They all must 'simply believe' it, just as the Muslims believe THEIR religion is from God. Not a very good excuse imho.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

It appears that "christian" STILL CANNOT GIVE ONE REASON for ANYONE to believe any protestant cult is the right cult. They all must 'simply believe' it, just as the Muslims believe THEIR religion is from God. Not a very good excuse imho.

In your ignorance you don't understand that CHRIST'S church is not a social/religious/financial/political oligarchy such as the mormon religion is. CHRIST's church is made up of MANY SMALLER GROUPS called 'congregations' or 'churches,' just as it was in the Bible.

The 'church' at ephesis
The 'church' at laodecia
etc
etc
etc

Unlike the arrogant mormons we don't claim to be 'the' church, but we are PARTS OF the church.

Your ignorance is showing.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

CHRIST's church is made up of MANY SMALLER GROUPS called 'congregations' or 'churches,' just as it was in the Bible.

But in you ignorance you don't understand that they were all part of the same church, not a bunch of random independent churches all doing their own thing, as the arrogant protestants claim. Your ignorance is showing.

And you still haven't provided a single reason to choose any protestant cult over the Church of Jesus Christ.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

But in you ignorance you don't understand that they were all part of the same church, not a bunch of random independent churches all doing their own thing, as the arrogant protestants claim. Your ignorance is showing.

And you still haven't provided a single reason to choose any protestant cult over the Church of Jesus Christ.

Because nothing verifies one word any leader of the Mormon church from Smith on down to the present. Then with the doctrine of newer prophecies trump older ones, you cannot have any peace of mind for what you believed may change with the next prophet or the next year or the next month. The LDS cannot bring the peace that p***es understanding that comes with knowing God.

Then no one is asking you to change to any sect/church/denomination/et al you are being asked to repent of your sins, give up mormonism and be freed from deception and embrace Christ as your savior.You are being called to Jesus and the truth not another church

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Because nothing verifies one word any leader of the Mormon church from Smith on down to the present.

That's a pretty sweeping ***ertion, and if it somehow argued for protestantism over the Church of Jesus Christ, I'd ask you to back up your claim.

Then no one is asking you to change to any sect/church/denomination/et al

That's not true. You may not be, but many others have.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

But in you ignorance you don't understand that they were all part of the same church, not a bunch of random independent churches all doing their own thing, as the arrogant protestants claim. Your ignorance is showing.

And you still haven't provided a single reason to choose any protestant cult over the Church of Jesus Christ.

It appears that YOU do not understand that we CHRISTIAN churches are all part of the same church, or of course that the CHRISTIAN church has never failed to have full Authority from God for about 2,000 years now. The church JESUS BUILT has never ceased to exist on the earth, never been shaken, and never completely apostacized such as joe smith's religion did.

YOU haven't provided a single reason to choose YOUR religious cult over CHRIST'S REAL church. YOU pretend we should join your mormon cult instead.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's a pretty sweeping ***ertion, and if it somehow argued for protestantism over the Church of Jesus Christ, I'd ask you to back up your claim.

BEFORE you can claim that mormonism is NOT 'protestant' you should try to demonstrate that the Jesus Christ of CHRISTIANITY (the one the BIBLE is about) 'is' the mormon 'spirit-brother-of-satan' jesus that the mormon religion teaches. . .

UNTIL you can do that, AND demonstrate that 'mainline Christianity' IS 'protestant, you have nothing but whines to offer us.

mormonism (including ALL of its 150+ variants) is included in the 'protestant' as just another cult. Nobody but those duped mormons believe it.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

YOU haven't provided a single reason to choose YOUR religious cult over CHRIST'S REAL church. YOU pretend we should join your mormon cult instead.

That's okay; YOU haven't provided a single reason to choose YOUR religious cult over CHRIST'S REAL church either. YOU pretend we should join your protestant cult instead.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

BEFORE you can claim that mormonism is NOT 'protestant' you should try to demonstrate that the Jesus Christ of CHRISTIANITY (the one the BIBLE is about) 'is' the mormon 'spirit-brother-of-satan' jesus that the mormon religion teaches. . .

UNTIL you can do that, AND demonstrate that 'mainline Christianity' IS 'protestant, you have nothing but whines to offer us.

mormonism (including ALL of its 150+ variants) is included in the 'protestant' as just another cult. Nobody but those duped mormons believe it.

That makes no sense at all. No, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a protestant cult.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Originally Posted by Christian View Post
BEFORE you can claim that mormonism is NOT 'protestant' you should try to demonstrate that the Jesus Christ of CHRISTIANITY (the one the BIBLE is about) 'is' the mormon 'spirit-brother-of-satan' jesus that the mormon religion teaches. . .

UNTIL you can do that, AND demonstrate that 'mainline Christianity' IS 'protestant, you have nothing but whines to offer us.

mormonism (including ALL of its 150+ variants) is included in the 'protestant' as just another cult. Nobody but those duped mormons believe it.

That makes no sense at all. No, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a protestant cult.

Let's see now. . .your religion does not agree with the catholic religion and thus IS protestant.

AND

Of course you ARE considered to be a cult by ALL OF HISTORICAL CHRISTIANITY.

SO

OF COURSE YOU ARE a protestant cult!

And the TRUTH REMAINS that nobody but mormons believe otherwise!

AND

the TRUTH REMAINS that even the 150+ mormon cults can't agree about WHICH ONE IS REALLY 'the' church.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's okay; YOU haven't provided a single reason to choose YOUR religious cult over CHRIST'S REAL church either. YOU pretend we should join your protestant cult instead.

STUPIDLY FALSE, of course. YOUR 'modern-day-invented-religion' is NO MORE CHRIST'S REAL CHURCH THAN THE CHURCH OF SATAN IS.

YOU have not proven otherwise.

I have never asked you to join ANYTHING.

I am not a member of any 'protestant cult.' I am a member of Christ's REAL church, the one that is about 2,000 years old, not YOUR CULT which is less than 200 years old.

Your founder invents a new religion and PRETENDS it is not new.

HOW STUPID IS THAT?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Now in the case of "why your church and not another?" my thoughts are as follows.


I have attended and worshiped at most of the many common Christian denominations you can find listed in the phone book....

I don't really have any problems with any of them.
Each has slight differences, but for the vast majority of the things you run into you find things are about the same one church to another.

This means that in the real world the biggest difference between different Christian denominations is found in the people that you meet at each.


So I have no problem suggesting any of the many churches I have attended in the past to be considered by a new believer.
If I saw that this or that church had a program that was more in-tune with the person I was talking to, that would be a good reason to suggest that church to them....

But in the end, it does not matter to me much what denomination a Christian attends as I have no problem also worshiping God there if I were to visit too.


But then we should address now the Question of the non-Christian CULTS.

The CULT issue is a matter that needs to be confronted!
The CULTS are not a type of thing I suggest any person get mixed up in.

There are many reasons why I think this is so, but the biggest reason is that if you die you go to Hell.

Hell is a very good reason to stay out of a CULT, regardless of how long your mom and dad were members.




Now with the Mormons in particular I find their whole religion to be founded and centered around the ideas that Mormon men want to have lots of sex with other women.

That is the corner stone of the Mormon faith, it was why Joe Smith invented his teachings to allow him to do.
and, Its why they finally had to shoot the skunk....(some people just need shooting I guess)

The whole Utah branch of the Mormon church is founded and driven by this quest to have sex with other women other than your wife, and this even is at the heart of their understanding of who and "what" God is.....and their own dreams of the after life.


Im many ways, the Mormon teachings and statements over the years about 'spirit wives, spirit babies' reminds me of the "70 Virgins" that Islam promises to guys that strap bombs on their bodies and **** up markets or crash planes.


Sex with many different Mormon women now is currently taught by many branches of Mormonism, and if its not possable where you are?....... you still have that as a goal in the afterlife.

still one of my best posts on this message forum!

[Christian]

erunder posted:

Originally posted by alanmolstad
The teachings of Mormonism themselves lead people to believe in a false Christ and a false salvation that if not repented of will lead the Mormon believer to eternal ****ation in the fire of hell.
You'regoing to have to show us why Jesus Christ is false.

The mormon 'jesus christ' is NOT the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ because
a. the mormon jc is supposedly a 'spirit-brother-of-satan' jesus christ

BUT

The BIBLICAL Jesus Christ instead, CREATED the angels, even the fallen satan, which makes satan and his minions CREATED BEINGS BY JESUS CHRIST, NOT 'spirit-brothers' AT ALL.

John 1:2-4
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV

God is the father of spirits just as my son is father of his adopted children. It is not a PHYSICAL relationship, but is instead a FAMILIAL relationship.

I guess you don't know the difference

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's a pretty sweeping ***ertion, and if it somehow argued for protestantism over the Church of Jesus Christ, I'd ask you to back up your claim.


That's not true. You may not be, but many others have.

Having studied archaeology and history it is not an ***ertion. Why are the mormons refusing to dig up Mt. C if there is actual evidence for a battle that took place which would support their claims? The mormon archaeologists themselves have not found anything to support one claim Smith and other leaders made about the mormon beliefs and history. I could go on but you should know that mormon leaders tell you and other mormons just use faith not evidence so how would you know if my statement is not true?

Read a non-mormon translated NASB Bible and see the difference and ask God to open your eyes to the truth. it is that simple and you get to study and see with your own eyes the truth of scripture and the falseness of mormon religious works.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Read a non-mormon translated NASB Bible and see the difference and ask God to open your eyes to the truth. it is that simple and you get to study and see with your own eyes the truth of scripture and the falseness of mormon religious works.

Such as this truth?

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Having studied archaeology and history it is not an ***ertion.

Perhaps you should spend some time studying English, because it most certainly is an ***ertion.

Why are the mormons refusing to dig up Mt. C if there is actual evidence for a battle that took place which would support their claims?

Mt. C?

Read a non-mormon translated NASB Bible and see the difference and ask God to open your eyes to the truth. it is that simple and you get to study and see with your own eyes the truth of scripture and the falseness of mormon religious works.

Why, what's so magical about a non-Mormon-translated NASB Bible?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post Why are the mormons refusing to dig up Mt. C if there is actual evidence for a battle that took place which would support their claims?

Originally Posted by Erundur

Mt. C?

I thought that was rather humorous. The doctor might believe the Hill Cumorah is a mountain.

[DrDavidT]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Perhaps you should spend some time studying English, because it most certainly is an ***ertion.


Mt. C?


Why, what's so magical about a non-Mormon-translated NASB Bible?

Perhaps you should stop insulting people and learn to accept the fact that there are people who know far more than you. Nothing is magical it just contains the truth where as any mormon translated bible does not.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

Perhaps you should stop insulting people and learn to accept the fact that there are people who know far more than you. Nothing is magical it just contains the truth where as any mormon translated bible does not.

Which are the Mormon-translated Bibles, and by what magical process does truth disappear from the Bible when a Mormon translates it?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Which are the Mormon-translated Bibles, and by what magical process does truth disappear from the Bible when a Mormon translates it?

joe smith's 'inspired version' in which joe smith changes the text of his 'translation' at random to fit his own imaginations. He PRETENDED that God 'inspired' him, just as he PRETENDED to see some angels in a grove of trees. . .in his FIRST 'first vision' account.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

joe smith's 'inspired version' in which joe smith changes the text of his 'translation' at random to fit his own imaginations. He PRETENDED that God 'inspired' him, just as he PRETENDED to see some angels in a grove of trees. . .in his FIRST 'first vision' account.

And just as he pretended to have some golden plates?

Testimony of Three Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris


Testimony of Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

[Christian]

berry posted:

Originally Posted by Christian View Post
joe smith's 'inspired version' in which joe smith changes the text of his 'translation' at random to fit his own imaginations. He PRETENDED that God 'inspired' him, just as he PRETENDED to see some angels in a grove of trees. . .in his FIRST 'first vision' account.

Testimony of Three Witnesses

I <SNIPPED> the 'witnesses' (about all of whom have been adequately debunked in posts by others, with evidence to support their claims)

Joe smith came to the bad ending he deserved. He died trying to shoot his way out of jail. He was a conman, liar, thief, pedophile, and heretic. Yep. He PRETENDED to "RESTORE" junk that never existed or was believed by the REAL Jesus Christ, OR the church about 2,000 years ago.

THEY NEVER BELIEVED
god was just an 'exalted man'
or
in smith's 'jesus' who is supposedly a 'spirit-brother' of satan
or
temples
or
'melchizedek' priests running the church
or
many gods existing in many places
or
baptism for the dead
or
or
or

Smith just made all that garbage up.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

Joe smith came to the bad ending he deserved. He died trying to shoot his way out of jail. He was a conman, liar, thief, pedophile, and heretic. Yep. He PRETENDED to "RESTORE" junk that never existed or was believed by the REAL Jesus Christ, OR the church about 2,000 years ago.

THEY NEVER BELIEVED

god was just an 'exalted man'

God the Son is an exalted man:

Acts 5:30-31---King James Version (KJV)
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Revelation 3:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.