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Thread: The typical conversation....

  1. #1
    alanmolstad
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    Default The typical conversation....

    Bold type is the typical person that fully trusts the YEC teachers

    Normal type = me







    You evols think man came from monkeys, but the Bible tells us that we are made in the image of god.


    Is that all it says?

    What do you mean?


    Im asking if that is all the Bible tells us about how God made us?

    The Bible tells us that we are made in the image of god, not in the image of an ape!


    How nice,but I was reading in the Bible and I noticed something that I think is very relevant to this topic.

    What did you read?


    I was reading in Genesis that man is actually made of "dust"

    Yes that it true.


    So you believe that the Bible tells us that we are both made in the image of God, yet also made of dust?...is that what you believe the Bible is telling us?

    Yes...God formed the man out of dust, and we are made in the image of god....so that totally destroys your idea that man evolved from a mokey.


    Fine, fine, now so we both agree that the bible teaches that man is made from the earth?

    Er, what do you mean the earth?


    I mean the ground of this planet,we are made from it?


    I guess.


    Good, so being made in the image of God does not mean that God could not have used the dust of the ground to make us out of then?

    No, we are made in the image of God , but it is true also that we are made out of the dust of the ground of the earth.



    Good, lets push on then to consider the animals, are the animals made out of the earth too?

    The animals are not made in the image of God, only man is.

    Yes I get that, but are the animals made out of the same source material as humans according to the Bible?

    Source material? What do you mean the same source material?

    Well we have already traced back the story of the creation of humans to the earth itself, I just want to know if the creation of all the animals also cane be traced back to the earth itself....according to the Bible?


    Well, it is true that God does command the earth to bring forth the animals, and it also does say clearly that God formed the animals out of the ground of the earth...so I guess humans and animals do share that in common with each other.


    Great!

    But animals are not made in the image of God!

    Thats okay with me, I got no problem with that. Lets just back-up a moment and get it straight what the Bible is teaching as to the origin of life. What we see is that according to the Bible is that all life, (both animal and human), is traced back to a single source, and that source is the earth itself.


    I guess that is true, but only we are made in the image of God.

    Ok, lets now consider if this is any different at all from what evolution teaches?

    Its very different, for evolution teaches we came from monkeys!

    Well, thats what a lot of people try to say evolution teaches, but I have to ask, "Is that it?"

    What do you mean?

    I mean according to evolution did all human life simply "pop" into existence as a fully formed money that later evolved into a human?, or was there some evolution steps before the monkey ?

    Well I guess the monkey is said to have evolved too.

    Yes, I think you are correct, so according to the teachings of evolution we do see that there are earlier forms of life that are said to have evolved into the "monkey" we always hear about.

    So what?

    So,I just was wondering, "What came before that?"

    Before the monkey?

    Well yes, but then what came before that?..and before that?...and before that?...just keep tracing the evolution of life back untill you get to what source?

    Source?


    Yes, what is the final source for life on the earth? What is life's start? What are the very early smallest little building blocks that would go on to evolve into life according to the teachings of evolution?

    Well I guess that would be the elements? , minerals? and stuff? You know all that stuff that went into the mix that came out later with a thing that was alive I would guess.

    Thats a good answer!

    Thanks,

    So, would you agree with me that the final evolutionary source for life on the earth according to the teachings of evolution would be the earth itself?

    Yes,,,,I see what you are saying now, and that is correct, evolution will trace back all life to the source being the earth itself, but that is way different than what we read in the Bible...




    Oh is it?.....is it really?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 08-23-2015 at 09:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Bold type is the typical person that fully trusts the YEC teachers

    Normal type = me







    You evols think man came from monkeys, but the Bible tells us that we are made in the image of god.


    Is that all it says?

    What do you mean?


    Im asking if that is all the Bible tells us about how God made us?

    The Bible tells us that we are made in the image of god, not in the image of an ape!


    How nice,but I was reading in the Bible and I noticed something that I think is very relevant to this topic.

    What did you read?


    I was reading in Genesis that man is actually made of "dust"

    Yes that it true.


    So you believe that the Bible tells us that we are both made in the image of God, yet also made of dust?...is that what you believe the Bible is telling us?

    Yes...God formed the man out of dust, and we are made in the image of god....so that totally destroys your idea that man evolved from a mokey.


    Fine, fine, now so we both agree that the bible teaches that man is made from the earth?

    Er, what do you mean the earth?


    I mean the ground of this planet,we are made from it?


    I guess.


    Good, so being made in the image of God does not mean that God could not have used the dust of the ground to make us out of then?

    No, we are made in the image of God , but it is true also that we are made out of the dust of the ground of the earth.



    Good, lets push on then to consider the animals, are the animals made out of the earth too?

    The animals are not made in the image of God, only man is.

    Yes I get that, but are the animals made out of the same source material as humans according to the Bible?

    Source material? What do you mean the same source material?

    Well we have already traced back the story of the creation of humans to the earth itself, I just want to know if the creation of all the animals also cane be traced back to the earth itself....according to the Bible?


    Well, it is true that God does command the earth to bring forth the animals, and it also does say clearly that God formed the animals out of the ground of the earth...so I guess humans and animals do share that in common with each other.


    Great!

    But animals are not made in the image of God!

    Thats okay with me, I got no problem with that. Lets just back-up a moment and get it straight what the Bible is teaching as to the origin of life. What we see is that according to the Bible is that all life, (both animal and human), is traced back to a single source, and that source is the earth itself.


    I guess that is true, but only we are made in the image of God.

    Ok, lets now consider if this is any different at all from what evolution teaches?

    Its very different, for evolution teaches we came from monkeys!

    Well, thats what a lot of people try to say evolution teaches, but I have to ask, "Is that it?"

    What do you mean?

    I mean according to evolution did all human life simply "pop" into existence as a fully formed money that later evolved into a human?, or was there some evolution steps before the monkey ?

    Well I guess the monkey is said to have evolved too.

    Yes, I think you are correct, so according to the teachings of evolution we do see that there are earlier forms of life that are said to have evolved into the "monkey" we always hear about.

    So what?

    So,I just was wondering, "What came before that?"

    Before the monkey?

    Well yes, but then what came before that?..and before that?...and before that?...just keep tracing the evolution of life back untill you get to what source?

    Source?


    Yes, what is the final source for life on the earth? What is life's start? What are the very early smallest little building blocks that would go on to evolve into life according to the teachings of evolution?

    Well I guess that would be the elements? , minerals? and stuff? You know all that stuff that went into the mix that came out later with a thing that was alive I would guess.

    Thats a good answer!

    Thanks,

    So, would you agree with me that the final evolutionary source for life on the earth according to the teachings of evolution would be the earth itself?

    Yes,,,,I see what you are saying now, and that is correct, evolution will trace back all life to the source being the earth itself, but that is way different than what we read in the Bible...




    Oh is it?.....is it really?
    “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.” Hebrews 11:3

    “We have here one of the first acts and articles of faith, which has a great influence on all the rest, and which is common to all believers in every age and part of the world, namely, the creation of the worlds by the word of God, not out of pre-existent matter, but out of nothing. God made the world by his word, that is, by his essential wisdom and eternal Son, and by his active will, saying, Let it be done, and it was done, Ps. 33:9. That the world was thus framed out of nothing, out of no pre-existent matter, contrary to the received maxim, that “out of nothing, nothing can be made,” which, though true of created power, can have no place with God, who can call things that are not as if they were, and command them into being. These things we understand by faith. The Bible gives us the truest and most exact account of the origin of all things, and we are to believe it, and not to wrest or run down the scripture-account of the creation, because it does not suit with some fantastic hypotheses of our own, which has been in some learned but conceited men the first remarkable step towards infidelity, and has led them into many more.” Matthew Henry’s commentary on Hebrews

    So God could cause the worlds to "pop" into existence from nothing but man had to evolve? Not likely.

  3. #3
    Saxon
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    That pretty much eliminates evolution to any rational Bible believer.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.” Hebrews 11:3

    “We have here one of the first acts and articles of faith, which has a great influence on all the rest, and which is common to all believers in every age and part of the world, namely, the creation of the worlds by the word of God, not out of pre-existent matter, but out of nothing. God made the world by his word, that is, by his essential wisdom and eternal Son, and by his active will, saying, Let it be done, and it was done, Ps. 33:9. That the world was thus framed out of nothing, out of no pre-existent matter, contrary to the received maxim, that “out of nothing, nothing can be made,” which, though true of created power, can have no place with God, who can call things that are not as if they were, and command them into being. These things we understand by faith. The Bible gives us the truest and most exact account of the origin of all things, and we are to believe it, and not to wrest or run down the scripture-account of the creation, because it does not suit with some fantastic hypotheses of our own, which has been in some learned but conceited men the first remarkable step towards infidelity, and has led them into many more.” Matthew Henry’s commentary on Hebrews

    So God could cause the worlds to "pop" into existence from nothing but man had to evolve? Not likely.
    ..........

  5. #5
    alanmolstad
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    the Bible does not say we were made out of "nothingness" , this is why when we die we are said to "RETURN" from where we were from.

    If we simply "popped" out of nothingness then we could not "return" to anything.....we would simply return to the same "nothingness" we came from.

    but the Bible is very clear that when we die we return to the "ground" of the earth, for that is what we are drawn from...

    We are a part of this earth that has come alive!......Amen!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    the Bible does not say we were made out of "nothingness" , this is why when we die we are said to "RETURN" from where we were from.

    If we simply "popped" out of nothingness then we could not "return" to anything.....we would simply return to the same "nothingness" we came from.

    but the Bible is very clear that when we die we return to the "ground" of the earth, for that is what we are drawn from...

    We are a part of this earth that has come alive!......Amen!
    I'm not referring to what elements we are made from, my point is we did not evolve from anything. Saying we come from the dust of the earth is not the same as saying we evolved from monkey's and you know it.

  7. #7
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I'm not referring to what elements we are made from, my point is we did not evolve from anything. Saying we come from the dust of the earth is not the same as saying we evolved from monkey's and you know it.
    i said the final source for life is the same in Genesis and evolution.

    and it is...




    some in the church just dont like this fact, thats all.....




    Quoting genesis is not the same thing as teaching evolution in science cl***,.
    Nor is teaching evolution the same thing as teaching religion in a Sunday school cl***.

    So the two works do not say the very same things when looking at the very same history.

    its like I gave in that example, where two people can be in the same room, looking at the same object in the middle of them, yet describe this same object with very different terms.
    One person sees the object from the left side, the other person sees the same object from the right side.

    So we should expect that we will hear the same object described in at times very different ways.
    yet, we can also see how the two points of view are not in disagreement, but work together to give us a more well-rounded understanding of that same single object.





    in the same way both Genesis and Evolution do look at the same points in man's history from very different points of view, yet both are not in disagreement with each other, but are able to work together to bring us a more well-rounded understanding of early earth history.







    thus to wrap up I offer this-
    "The source material of life is the earth itself"

    But am I talking about the source material as taught in Genesis , or in evolution?


    It does not matter for it is true in both......






    Now as for the comment you made dealing with "monkeys"?.....please refer to - http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...l-conversation
    Where I deal with the "monkey issue".

  8. #8
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    i said the final source for life is the same in Genesis and evolution.

    and it is...




    some in the church just dont like this fact, thats all.....




    Quoting genesis is not the same thing as teaching evolution in science cl***,.
    Nor is teaching evolution the same thing as teaching religion in a Sunday school cl***.

    So the two works do not say the very same things when looking at the very same history.

    its like I gave in that example, where two people can be in the same room, looking at the same object in the middle of them, yet describe this same object with very different terms.
    One person sees the object from the left side, the other person sees the same object from the right side.

    So we should expect that we will hear the same object described in at times very different ways.
    yet, we can also see how the two points of view are not in disagreement, but work together to give us a more well-rounded understanding of that same single object.





    in the same way both Genesis and Evolution do look at the same points in man's history from very different points of view, yet both are not in disagreement with each other, but are able to work together to bring us a more well-rounded understanding of early earth history.







    thus to wrap up I offer this-
    "The source material of life is the earth itself"

    But am I talking about the source material as taught in Genesis , or in evolution?


    It does not matter for it is true in both......
    But Alan, evolution is not fact but a theory. For the final time how can you equate the truth of Creation with a man made theory?

  9. #9
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    But Alan, evolution is not fact but a theory. For the final time how can you equate the truth of Creation with a man made theory?
    its a theory that is in agreement with Genesis as to the source for all life correct?

    that source in genesis and in evolution is the earth itself in both concepts correct?

  10. #10
    alanmolstad
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    thats what im saying..that the story we read in genesis and the teachings we find in evolution have the source for all life in common with each other.


    But genesis does not teach evolution.
    yet it speaks to us in a manner that actually does work with evolution to bring us a very well rounded understanding of history.



    In evolution we learn about steps that life took as it went from the dead earth all the way down to animals here today.
    In Genesis all it says is "let the Earth bring forth..."so we are not getting a very chatty wording here on the issue as to "how" the earth decided to do as God commanded it to do.

    But lets not over look the fact that what the Bible does tell us, (limited as it is) yet does fit well with what science tells us.

    For in science we also do see that the final source for life is the earth itself.

  11. #11
    Saxon
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    Evolution does not equate the source of life to God. Evolution has no source of life. In evolution life is just an accident with no specific cause. Get over it.

    The source of life in Genesis is God, not the earth.

  12. #12
    alanmolstad
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    Dust to dust....

    Case closed

  13. #13
    Saxon
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    Again, no response to my answer. You have no case.

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    You evols
    there is no such word as 'evols'. if believers are going to address their opponents in such a disrespectful manner then they should expect disrespect in return. Use English correctly and stop shortening words down as only you look stupid when you do things like the quote.
    magazine is still running, location as changed. contact us for the internet address

  15. #15
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    there is no such word as 'evols'. if believers are going to address their opponents in such a disrespectful manner then they should expect disrespect in return. Use English correctly and stop shortening words down as only you look stupid when you do things like the quote.

    If you are referring to my post?

    Then I think you need to re-read the whole posted comment to catch the idea I writing about.
    You see, Im the "evol" in the posted conversation I wrote at the start of this topic.

    This is the term that people call me all the time...
    Im not offended by it as it is just a faster way to write "Evolutionist"

    I do not believe anyone has said that when they call me an "evol" that they did this to show disrespect to me ...

    I take it to be just a shorter way to say things....no harm intended.

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