Are there any Christians outside the Mormon church?

[Grandma]

Are there any Christians outside the Mormon church? I'm wondering what Mormons believe about that.

[Erundur]

Of course.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Of course.

Do Christians spend eternity with God?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

Do Christians spend eternity with God?

Many of them do.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Many of them do.

Originally Posted by Erundur

Many of them do.

How can you say "many" instead of all?
John 6
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Of course, Joseph Smith disagreed with you.

"Will everybody be ****ed, but Mormons?"
Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness,"
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 119

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

How can you say "many" instead of all?

Because many will, but not all. Where do you get the idea that all Christians will spend eternity with God?

Of course, Joseph Smith disagreed with you.

"Will everybody be ****ed, but Mormons?"
Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness,"
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 119

I see you aren't familiar with the concept of sarcasm.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Because many will, but not all. Where do you get the idea that all Christians will spend eternity with God?

Because God gave them the new birth; otherwise they aren't Christians. Where do you get the idea that Jesus was lying?

John 6:39
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Originally Posted by Erundur

I see you aren't familiar with the concept of sarcasm.

I wouldn't say that. How can you determine he was being sarcastic?

Suppose only the elect will have eternal life and spend eternity with God.

“An elect lady is a female member of the [Mormon]Church who has already received, or who through obedience is qualified to receive, the fulness of gospel blessings. This includes temple endowments, celestial marriage, and the fulness of the sealing power. She is one who has been elected or chosen by faithfulness as a daughter of God in this life, an heir of God, a member of his household. Her position is comparable to that of the elders who magnify their callings in the priesthood and thereby receive all that the Father hath.”
The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, (1979), Chapter 53

That sounds rather exclusive to me. It makes Joseph Smith's answer sound serious rather than sarcastic.

"Will everybody be ****ed, but Mormons?"
Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness,"
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 119

Do you still think his answer was not based on Mormon teachings?

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

Because God gave them the new birth; otherwise they aren't Christians.

That's not what Christian means.

Where do you get the idea that Jesus was lying?

Your question ***umes a false premise.

I wouldn't say that. How can you determine he was being sarcastic?

If you actually know what LDS believe, then when you read Joseph's FAQ, you can tell that some of his answers aren't entirely serious.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

That's not what Christian means.

A Christian is a follower of Christ. The new birth creates a follower of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are p***ed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Originally Posted by Erundur

Your question ***umes a false premise.

I don't see that.

Originally Posted by Erundur

If you actually know what LDS believe, then when you read Joseph's FAQ, you can tell that some of his answers aren't entirely serious.

That one had to be serious. I showed you that it lines up with Mormon teachings.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Erundur

If you actually know what LDS believe, then when you read Joseph's FAQ, you can tell that some of his answers aren't entirely serious.

yes, plus: I think many people misunderstand what he was saying. he was saying that not only will all non-mormons fail to make it to the highest part of god's kingdom, but most mormons will fail to make it as well, unless they get their act together.

"Will everybody be ****ed, but Mormons?"
Yes, and a great portion of them (the mormons, too), unless they repent, and work righteousness"

sometimes, when i see how poorly some anti-mormons understand what mormon leaders said, i can understand why they also misunderstand the bible so much. the mormon leaders spoke the same language as the antis, lived in the same country as the antis, and lived less than 200 years before the antis did. the bible people, on the other hand, spoke a foreign language, lived in a foreign land with foreign culture and customs, and lived up to 4000 years before the antis.

so if you can't correctly understand what joseph smith said, there isn't much hope that you will correctly understand what jesus said.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

A Christian is a follower of Christ.

Close.

Christian
noun Chris·tian \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\

: a person who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christian

That one had to be serious. I showed you that it lines up with Mormon teachings.

No, you didn't. Just throwing out some random quote doesn't accomplish anything.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Close.

You ought to have said, "Correct." Evidently when Mormons call us Christians, they really mean that we are lesser Christians. That isn't biblical. Christians aren't supposed to esteem their brothers and sisters as not worthy of spending eternity with God. Eternity with God is for all Christians.

Romans 8
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Originally Posted by Erundur

No, you didn't. Just throwing out some random quote doesn't accomplish anything.

It wasn't just a random quote. It's what Mormons are taught.

The elect of God are those men and women who have demonstrated such great faithfulness to the teachings of Jesus Christ that they will be elevated to godhood in the afterlife. The elect are not predetermined or predestined to eternal life.[2] They use their agency—the ability to independently choose between good and evil for themselves—to obey the commandments of God willingly. They are spiritually receptive to the teachings of the Spirit. The elect “see and know the truth”[3] and “hear the word of God”[4] when the Lord’s messengers speak. While Satan manages to deceive many, “the elect will not be deceived”[5] and will accept the true restored gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. President Brigham Young said: “All who believe, have honest hearts, and bring forth fruits of righteousness, are the elect of God and heirs to all things.”[6]

Since the prerequisites of this blessing include “obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,”[7] only a “very select group, an inner circle of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”[8] will qualify for it. To become elect, a person must partake of “the new and everlasting covenant of marriage’ (D. & C. 131:1-4), and overcome by faith until, as the sons of God, they merit membership in the Church of the Firstborn.”[9]
W. John Walsh
lightplanet.com

So you say there are Christians outside your church who don't deserve the blessing of eternal life yet some Mormons do.

That's sad.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

You ought to have said, "Correct." Evidently when Mormons call us Christians, they really mean that we are leser Christians. That isn't biblical. Christians aren't supposed to esteem their brothers and sisters as not worthy of spending eternity with God. Eternity with God is for all Christians.

Romans 8
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


It wasn't just a random quote. It's what Mormons are taught.

The elect of God are those men and women who have demonstrated such great faithfulness to the teachings of Jesus Christ that they will be elevated to godhood in the afterlife. The elect are not predetermined or predestined to eternal life.[2] They use their agency—the ability to independently choose between good and evil for themselves—to obey the commandments of God willingly. They are spiritually receptive to the teachings of the Spirit. The elect “see and know the truth”[3] and “hear the word of God”[4] when the Lord’s messengers speak. While Satan manages to deceive many, “the elect will not be deceived”[5] and will accept the true restored gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. President Brigham Young said: “All who believe, have honest hearts, and bring forth fruits of righteousness, are the elect of God and heirs to all things.”[6]

Since the prerequisites of this blessing include “obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,”[7] only a “very select group, an inner circle of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”[8] will qualify for it. To become elect, a person must partake of “the new and everlasting covenant of marriage’ (D. & C. 131:1-4), and overcome by faith until, as the sons of God, they merit membership in the Church of the Firstborn.”[9]
W. John Walsh
lightplanet.com

So you say there are Christians outside your church who don't deserve the blessing of eternal life yet some Mormons do.

That's sad.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

Its not a matter of "deserving Eternal Life" because in a sense no one deserves to be saved.... It's more about preparing yourself for Eternal Life, which is obtainable to ALL.
And yes, few there will be that will seek after Eternal Life, and according to the Bible, 50% of those who do seek after God will not be prepared for Him and will hence not obtain Eternal Life.
The very fact that people recognize that there's a highway to Hell and yet only a staircase to Heaven, tells you that even the world acknowledges the fact that few will make it.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

Its not a matter of "deserving Eternal Life" because in a sense no one deserves to be saved.... It's more about preparing yourself for Eternal Life, which is obtainable to ALL.
And yes, few there will be that will seek after Eternal Life, and occurring to the Bible, 50% of those who do seek after God will not be prepared for Him and will hence not obtain Eternal.
The very fact that people recognize that there's a highway to Hell and yet only a staircase to Heaven, tells you that even the world acknowledges the fact that few will make it.

Your D&C says that some people are more worthy than others. That's not true. Eternal life is for all Christians.

***us 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

Your D&C says that some people are more worthy than others. That's not true. Eternal life is for all Christians.

***us 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

In Christian Love,

Grandma

Please explain to us the meaning of the parable of the ten virgins?

Thanks in advance...

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

You ought to have said, "Correct."

Only if I wanted to be inaccurate.

Evidently when Mormons call us Christians, they really mean that we are lesser Christians.

CFR

Christians aren't supposed to esteem their brothers and sisters as not worthy of spending eternity with God.

So do Protestants esteem Mormons as worthy of spending eternity with God?

It wasn't just a random quote.

Yeah, it was. It really had nothing to do with the topic.

So you say there are Christians outside your church who don't deserve the blessing of eternal life yet some Mormons do.

Obviously. Being a Christian is not an unconditional guarantee of eternal life.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Evidently when Mormons call us Christians, they really mean that we are lesser Christians.

CFR

D&C 132:
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

Originally Posted by Erundur

So do Protestants esteem Mormons as worthy of spending eternity with God?

We don't pretend that you're Christians. Mormons claim to be honest and claim that Christians aren't worthy enough to spend eternity with God unless they become Mormons.

Have a nice afternoon. I won't be here.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

D&C 132:
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

This does not say that anyone is a lesser Christian. Try again?

We don't pretend that you're Christians.

Neither do we.

Mormons claim to be honest and claim that Christians aren't worthy enough to spend eternity with God unless they become Mormons.

CFR

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

This does not say that anyone is a lesser Christian. Try again?

Some might say, "Well, I'd be satisfied to just become an angel," but you would not. One never would be satisfied just to be a ministering angel to wait upon other people when he could be the king himself. ("The Importance of Celestial Marriage," Ensign, Oct. 1979, pp. 5-6)

To enter the celestial and obtain exaltation it is necessary that the whole law be kept. The word of the Lord is that they of the celestial world are those sanctified from all unrighteousness.(D.C. 88:21, cf. verse 18.) To become sanctified there are certain definite covenants we must keep in faithfulness, living by "every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God." "They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, * * * That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto the power." These are they "who overcome by faith and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true." (D.C. 76:51-53. See also verses 54-60.) And they who are not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and who are not just and true, need not expect their great blessings.
Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p.206

Doctrine and Covenants 1
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;
32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;


Temple Ordinances Necessary to Enter Church of Firstborn
The sacred ordinances performed in the temple are essential in becoming a member of the Church of the Firstborn. This was made clear by Joseph Smith. On May 4, 1842, the day the Prophet introduced the temple ordinances of the washing and anointing and the endowment in this dispensation, he wrote:
I spent the day in the upper part of the store . . . in council with General James Adams, of Springfield, Patriarch Hyrum Smith, Bishops Newel K. Whitney and George Miller, and President Brigham Young and Elders Heber C. Kimball and Willard Richards, instructing them in the principles and order of the Priesthood, attending to washings, anointings, endowments and the communication of keys pertaining to the Aaronic Priesthood, and so on to the highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood, setting forth the order pertaining to the Ancient of Days, and all those plans and principles by which any one is enabled to secure the fullness of those blessing which have been prepared for the Church of the Firstborn, and come up and abide in the presence of the Eloheim in the eternal worlds.
History of the Church 5:1-2; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.237


Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual quotes Joseph Fielding Smith on page 323:

D&C 130:10 . What Is the Destiny of All Celestial Beings?
Angels are in a state wherein they possess “all things for their glory” ( D&C 130:7 ). The same is true of God and all exalted beings. Those who obtain celestial glory obtain knowledge of all inferior kingdoms, or “kingdoms of a lower order” than the one on which they live ( D&C 130:9 ). They also receive, as verse 10 makes clear, a personal Urim and Thummim in the form of a “white stone.” This stone becomes the means “whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms” are placed in their possession ( v. 10 ). Individuals are initially prepared for these great blessings by keeping God’s commandments and receiving an endowment in the house of God, as President Joseph Fielding Smith explained:

“The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [ John 14:2 ]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.

“. . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord.” ( Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41.)

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Erundur]

I'm not going to read through all that. Is there anything in there that says anyone is a lesser Christian?

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

I'm not going to read through all that. Is there anything in there that says anyone is a lesser Christian?

You don't have to read it. Other people will. I'm not arguing --- just providing the information you requested.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Grandma

You don't have to read it. Other people will. I'm not arguing --- just providing the information you requested.

I'll have to take that as a no, then.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Erundur

I'll have to take that as a no, then.

For some reason you don't like me and want to accuse me. If that makes you happy, go ahead and do as you please. I'm sorry if I've offended you; I try very hard to be polite.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

You don't have to read it. Other people will. I'm not arguing --- just providing the information you requested.

In Christian Love,

Grandma

LOL.... What other people???

I agree with Erundur, I never read your posts if they are more than one short paragraph long even if they include scripture.
I just ***ume you are spouting the same AntiMormon talking points I've heard and debunked a hundred times before.
We know your questions are not "questions" but attempts to trap us. That will never work however, because we know the answers to your questions, we know all the traps, we know the quotes you will use before you do, we know the AntiMormon sites you get your information from, we know the answers to any comeback, scriptures or quotes you will post, we also know how you will misinterpret those scriptures, WE ARE ALWAYS THREE OR FOUR STEPS AHEAD OF YOU!
So if we ask a question it is not because we think there is anything you can teach us, it is so that by you answering, You and any Lurkers who might happen by can see why your argument is flawed. This is why we know you know better than to answer any of our questions with anything more than pla***udes and scriptures which have nothing to do with the topic at hand... It is because if you answer you will have it on record as contradicting yourself, and be faced with the truth that contradicts your own beliefs.

So I'll ask the same question I ask most AntiMormons here... Just who are you trying to convince anyway?

It certainly can not be us because we know better, or the one or two Lurkers who are laughing at your silly attempts to discredit the LDS... It must be that you are trying to convince yourself.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by childofgod

Being a Christian doesn't mean you're guaranteed to enter the kingdom of God. Judas Iscariot was a Christian, he believed Jesus is the Messiah, and followed his teachings, and faces judgment for betraying the Christ. As it was said, not all Christians get into Heaven. Eternal life isn't for all Christians, just for those who God grants it to. There are Christians who believe they're going to Heaven just because they've professed Jesus to be the Savior yet say because they're saved they get in regardless of what they do. The unrepentant disobedient will have a hard time getting into the kingdom of God.

If you'll allow me, I would point out that Judas Iscariot was NOT a Christian. He was a devil just like Jesus said.

Saying, "I am a Christian," doesn't make anyone a Christian. A Christian is someone who has received the new birth by God's mercy and grace. You can usually tell them by their fruits; God knows who they are and they know Him.

In Christian Love,

Grandma