Mormons are 'christians. . .' they follow 'a' christ.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Christian

mickey posted:

Oh.....but I did address you there at the bottom Big C, cuz you keep going on and on about how I'm not answering your questions...so
I'll be back, since this cult of a forum apparently doesn't let you quit once you've joined...they refuse to delete my account...fine. But I'll be back with answers specific to the scriptures you posted even, like I usually do.


When will you START your 'usually do?

So far you haven't.


You cannot say I'm afraid to answer questions because I'm not....never have been.

You sure APPEAR to be afraid to try to answer the SCRIPTURES I have posted. EVERY TIME.

Then I'll leave, because there's no point to being here, I'm getting nothing out of it and have no idea what your take is on the many scriptures that explain our beliefs and contradict yours. And you all never will answer so what's the point really besides wasting my life? It's not because I'm stupid, stupidity would be explaining myself over and over and over again thinking somebody's going to listen to me.

Nobody listens to your stupid SPECULATIONS. Perhaps if you had SCRIPTURE to support you, you might do better. . .

But there will be no doubt when I leave, that I have not left a question unanswered

When your 'answers' are nothing more than YOUR OPINIONS and CRAZY SPECULATIONS, we ignore them. IF you could only TRY to find something in the BIBLE that supports your speculations. . .but of course you cannot.

Instead, you are a 'natural man' described here:

1 Cor 2:14-15
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV

You CLEARLY do not understand the Bible, the WORD OF GOD and will fall for any manure your cult feeds you.

Here you go...I am answering your question about those Isaiah verses, but if you read these verses in context with what is being said, you would see these verses are talking about those who worship false gods and idols...Since we believe only ONE God created us and and everything....this actually doesn't apply to us.

Isaiah 43:10*Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

There is only ONE God....He made EVERYTHING. Christ is His son and His servant, He is united in purpose with the Father. Everything He has done, has been under the Father’s direction. Under the guidance of God, Jesus Christ created this world. Isaiah was speaking to all who would worship idols and false gods, there are no other gods to us or over us...and there never will be, He will ALWAYS be our God and Creator. That will NEVER change.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Speaking of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...He was present before the beginning of the world and He will be present at the last day. He is the Alpha and Omega. Beside Him there is no other way by which salvation can come. Again...Isaiah was admonishing others to not worship false gods and idols...There is only ONE God over us all.

Isaiah 44:8*Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Again...he is teaching against false gods and idols...This whole section is about false idols..how do we know? We only need to go on to see that

Isaiah 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.

There is only ONE God, ONE that created all. Jesus Christ is His servant, He is subordinate to Him. He was very clear that He SERVES the Father. Jesus Christ is more than man, He had to be to be the perfect sacrifice and to have created all UNDER HIS FATHERS DIRECTION. And God has to be separate from Jesus Christ, or Christ would not have been able to come to earth and take a body, not know all things, and experience humanity. All things go through The Son from The Father (the perfect chain of command) it didn't start when He came to earth...it started in the beginning. Through Jesus Christ, God created the earth, interacted with man (the God of Israel) and atoned for our sins. In the end, God again acts through Jesus Christ to resurrect us with our bodies. When He has acted and spoken as God The Father(divine inves***ure) He was still doing what GOD commanded Him...the ONLY God...there is only ONE GOD. We worship that ONE God. We do not worship any other God. One God.

Working in perfect unity with God and Christ, the Holy Ghost witnesses, reveals, comforts, teaches, guides and protects us. He is our constant companion, and has no body of flesh and bones, this is how He can dwell within us, and always be with us. I personally look at it as a perfect team. God calls ALL the shots, but He uses Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost to carry out all He does. Jesus Christ carries out the physical (Creation, Atonement, Resurrection) and the Holy Ghost takes care of the spiritual.

We do not believe they are one in substance, but one in purpose. One God, the Godhead, The Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost. In scripture the number three means God...the number four means man (creation etc..)...the number seven thus means perfection and completion (seven days, seven seals)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ being a separate, obedient servant of God
John 15:19*Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things whatsoever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

This not only shows that He is a faithful servant to His Father,it states that He can do NOTHING by himself. Do you believe the Father can do nothing by Himself? If you don’t, than you can’t believe in the trinity because the trinity states all three components must be present to exist.

This also shows that the Son does what he SEETH the Father do. This shows two things...
1 - Unless He was looking in a mirror, He cannot see what He Himself is doing.
2 - God has a BODY.

John 6:38*For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Again....Christ is quite clear that He serves beneath the Father.

Matthew 19:17*And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

“NONE GOOD BUT ONE”and He is not talking about Himself...so He’s talking about....somebody else. He is subordinate to the Father and a SEPARATE individual.

John 14:28*Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

“I go unto my Father” “my Father is greater than I” How are is one greater or lesser than the other if they are THE SAME PERSON?

And, because I don’t have time to keep screwing around here...I get no real answers...this was a HUGE question I have for you all that will never be answered about God not having a body

If Christ and God are ONE PERSON, and Christ was resurrected with His PHYSICAL BODY...trinitarians must believe God has a body...right? He must.

There are so many things and so many verses that show them to be individuals, but not one person wants to explain WHY NONE of these verses are believed, or at least provide a different interpretation....

I PROVIDED AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION AND I PROVIDED SCRIPTURE....AGAIN

I will leave you, with this quote and another question I never got an answer on...this is the same question I asked worded differently from Jeffrey R Holland about the belief that God has no body

“If the idea of an embodied God is repugnant, why are the central doctrines and singularly most distinguishing characteristics of all Christianity the Incarnation, the Atonement, and the physical Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? If having a body is not only not needed but not desirable by Deity, why did the Redeemer of mankind redeem His body, redeeming it from the grasp of death and the grave, guaranteeing it would never again be separated from His spirit in time or eternity?”

Like I said before....seems to me God thinks a physical body is VERY important.

And again....all things will be revealed, so all these bickerings won't matter one little bit.

Edited today 11/1- please let me know what I can provide to continue a sincere civil discussion, thanks Christian, I would appreciate it~

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

So this wasn't directed towards me....duly noted, thank you.

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...492#post165492

see post number #5 for some background on what I am talking about...

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/s...492#post165492

see post number #5 for some background on what I am talking about...

Seriously Alan....I really don't care

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Seriously Alan....I really don't care

I have no doubt of that...and that other poster?
He does not seem to care too...

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

I have no doubt of that...and that other poster?
He does not seem to care too...

Oh I'm sorry, I should have been more clear...I don't care about what YOU have to say, because you seriously say a WHOLE lot of nothing

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Oh I'm sorry, I should have been more clear...I don't care about what YOU have to say, because you seriously say a WHOLE lot of nothing

Well that is different then from the other guy.
He truly does seem to care a great deal what I say....he goes on and on about it....

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

...that other poster?
He does not seem to care too...


Well that is different then from the other guy
He truly does seem to care a great deal what I say....he goes on and on about it....

Just so you know, this is exactly why I can't take anything you say seriously. You can't keep anything straight.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Just so you know, this is exactly why I can't take anything you say seriously. You can't keep anything straight.

Methinks you take yourself too seriously. I would have said the same type of thing about YOU.

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Christian

mickey posted:

The scriptures use different terms to describe how we are sons & daughters of God & Jesus Christ

We are all literal spirit children of Heavenly Father
Acts 17:29 - We are offspring of God

Adopted, of course. . .

Just a quick point here, Christian.

The adoption takes place years after the spirit is already in the body. Pointing to the adoption in no way accounts for the origin of the spirit--this does:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version (KJV)
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

So--is that some spirits--or all spirits?

If just some--could you reveal to us what other god you feel is the Father of the remainder of spirits?