FYI Mormon Trickery

[Grandma]

Mormons like to pretend that those who are not part of the Church of the Firstborn are “saved.”

Well, guess what. Those who are not part of the “Church of the Firstborn” are not with the Father. They never learned the secret handshakes!

D&C 76:54. What Is the Church of the Firstborn?

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. …

“The Lord has made it possible for us to become members of the Church of the Firstborn, by receiving the blessings of the house of the Lord and overcoming all things. Thus we become heirs, ‘priests, and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory,’ who shall ‘dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever,’ with full exaltation.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:41–42.)
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 164

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith, Pearl of Great Price
lds.org

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

Mormons like to pretend that those who are not part of the Church of the Firstborn are “saved.”

Well, guess what. Those who are not part of the “Church of the Firstborn” are not with the Father. They never learned the secret handshakes!

D&C 76:54. What Is the Church of the Firstborn?

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. …

“The Lord has made it possible for us to become members of the Church of the Firstborn, by receiving the blessings of the house of the Lord and overcoming all things. Thus we become heirs, ‘priests, and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory,’ who shall ‘dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever,’ with full exaltation.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:41–42.)
Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, p. 164

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Articles of Faith, Pearl of Great Price
lds.org

In Christian Love,

Grandma

Again, you haven't a clue of what you are posting....
The Church of the Firstborn, is not the LDS Church, or the Mormon Church as it is most times called.
The Church of the Firstborn is a Heavenly Church per se, for those who have already overcome the world and have become joint heirs with Christ.
In other words, in order to be of the Church of the Firstborn, you would already have had to of been saved first.
Basically your argument is; Mormons believe that those who are a member of the Church of the saved, are saved!
Well that's a no-brainer, even for someone with your beliefs....

[Saxon]

At what point in the Mormon thought is a Mormon saved and can say that they are saved??

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

Again, you haven't a clue of what you are posting....
The Church of the Firstborn, is not the LDS Church, or the Mormon Church as it is most times called.
The Church of the Firstborn is a Heavenly Church per se, for those who have already overcome the world and have become joint heirs with Christ.
In other words, in order to be of the Church of the Firstborn, you would already have had to of been saved first.
Basically your argument is; Mormons believe that those who are a member of the Church of the saved, are saved!
Well that's a no-brainer, even for someone with your beliefs....

I know what the Church of the Firstborn is. Its members are resurrected beings who earned eternal life. Salvation, wrongly defined by many Mormons, is not resurrection to separation from God.

Most members of the Mormon church, according to Mormonism, will not spend eternity with God. They don't obey all his commandments and aren't allowed in his presence.

Love,

Grandma

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by childofgod

The Book of Mormon is clear that those not of the church of Jesus Christ are of the church of the devil. I don't know why critics think that's harsh. Its common sense. There's no other church other than the two.

I've been declaring that is Mormon teaching for years and Mormons start arguing with me. Most Mormons don't see the logic.

Luke 11:23
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

The Mormons refer to their church on earth as the kingdom of God on earth. All members belong to "Kingdom of God" but after the Final Judgment only those who obeyed every commandment will be in the Church of the Firstborn which is the highest level of the Mormon's Celestial Kingdom.

Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

I know what the Church of the Firstborn is. Its members are resurrected beings who earned eternal life. Salvation, wrongly defined by many Mormons, is not resurrection to separation from God.

Really.... where did I say Salvation was is resurrection to separation from God?
Are you now starting to just make things up because all the rest of your other arguments have failed?

Originally Posted by Grandma

Most members of the Mormon church, according to Mormonism, will not spend eternity with God. They don't obey all his commandments and aren't allowed in his presence.

Love,

Grandma

I don't know about "most" but the scriptures allude to about 50% of those who were invited to the Wedding Feast will not be ready when the time comes. You really need to read your Bible sometime.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

Really.... where did I say Salvation was is resurrection to separation from God?
Are you now starting to just make things up because all the rest of your other arguments have failed?

When did I accuse you of saying that? The only people who are saved spend eternity with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Love,

Grandma

[Grandma]

"I will now give my scripture--Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God...that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him is of Antichrist."
Brigham Young, September 9, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176


"...No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, 1956, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 189-190

In Christian Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

"I will now give my scripture--Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God...that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him is of Antichrist."
Brigham Young, September 9, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176


"...No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, 1956, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 189-190

In Christian Love,

Grandma

I think you'll have to tell us what your point is because I haven't a clue???

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

I think you'll have to tell us what your point is because I haven't a clue???

If you check back, you'll see that I wasn't even attempting to give you a clue.

Love,

Grandma

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

If you check back, you'll see that I wasn't even attempting to give you a clue.

Of course not, that is the tactic of someone who does not understand the topic but wants to pretend that they are relevant. You are afraid that if you give out too much information people will find this out.
Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace;
When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive.

The irony is that since you never give us a clue as to how you interpret anything, we do not know whether you are agreeing with us or not?
There are multiple understandings of every quote and scripture you post, and you never give us your understanding of them. Critics love using this tactic because if they are cornered or asked to explain how they can believe the way they do, they will tell us "that's not what I believe!" And continue to not tell us what it is you do believe.
1. There is the interpretation of those to whom the message was originally given.
2. There is the modern orthodox interpretation.
3. There is the Calvanist/OSAS interpretation.
4. There is the worldly nonChristian interpretation.
5. And there is the AntiMormon interpretation which ironically usually always contradict their own beliefs, however as long as it is seen as being against the LDS Church it doesn't matter to you.

Which version did you mean to post?

I agree with the interpretation of those to whom the message was given.... The quotes you listed were taken out of context; if you were to provide the entire quote the message would have been clearer. They were meant for people of the Church who believed in Jesus Christ yet were questioning Joseph Smith. BY was pointing out that you can not say you believe in Jesus Christ while at the same time rejecting Christ's messenger.
I like this interpretation because it also happens to be Biblical.

John 13:20 Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

John 15:20 Jesus says, “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.”

Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

Matt 10:40 "Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me."

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by Grandma

"I will now give my scripture--Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God...that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him is of Antichrist."
Brigham Young, September 9, 1860, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176


"...No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Joseph Fielding Smith, 1956, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 189-190

In Christian Love,

Grandma

I didn't think Mormons were the only ones reading this thread, but I still think this is worth sharing for anyone who is curious (Mormons excluded).

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by theway

Of course not, that is the tactic of someone who does not understand the topic but wants to pretend that they are relevant. You are afraid that if you give out too much information people will find this out.
Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace;
When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by theway

The irony is that since you never give us a clue as to how you interpret anything, we do not know whether you are agreeing with us or not?
There are multiple understandings of every quote and scripture you post, and you never give us your understanding of them.

Some people love scripture so much that they listen to the Holy Spirit when reading it. Others are just looking for something to argue over.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Grandma

I didn't think Mormons were the only ones reading this thread, but I still think this is worth sharing for anyone who is curious (Mormons excluded).

LOL... Yes, I think it does bear repeating that I said Anti-Mormons will always choose option number 5.

Originally Posted by theway

5. And there is the AntiMormon interpretation which ironically usually always contradict their own beliefs, however as long as it is seen as being against the LDS Church it doesn't matter to you.(them)

This is why those who know better call AntiMormons a cult.
Grandma knows that the statement is not unbiblical, this is why she refuses to even tell us what is wrong with the statement.
As I said, an AntiMormon will be quick to take sides with Athiests and profess unbiblical statements just as long as they believe the ends justify the means in their unholy war against all things LDS.

Here are the same statements; only these statements were made by Christ and His Apostles in the Bible. They are saying that you can't reject a Prophet of God while at the same time say you accept Christ. Christ says that if you reject His Apostles and His Prophets, you react Him, and in turn you have rejected The Father.
These are the things AntiMormons do not want you to see.... Kind of ironic isn't it, considering the ***le of this thread.

Originally Posted by theway

John 13:20 Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

John 15:20 Jesus says, “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.”

Luke 10:16 Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.

Matt 10:40 "Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me."

[Grandma]

"General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever."
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

That full reconciliation to God is extremely important to me. It is the idea of a personal atonement or reconciliation that can bring me back into the presence of God as one of his covenant sons that appeals to me. That kind of conditional salvation I call exaltation.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.

[theway]

P

Originally Posted by Grandma

"General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever."
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

That full reconciliation to God is extremely important to me. It is the idea of a personal atonement or reconciliation that can bring me back into the presence of God as one of his covenant sons that appeals to me. That kind of conditional salvation I call exaltation.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.

True.... Just as I stated before.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Grandma

"General salvation comes regardless of obedience to gospel principles or laws and results solely in resurrection from the dead. In this respect, salvation is synonymous with immortality, in that the resurrected person will live forever."
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

That full reconciliation to God is extremely important to me. It is the idea of a personal atonement or reconciliation that can bring me back into the presence of God as one of his covenant sons that appeals to me. That kind of conditional salvation I call exaltation.
Elder Theodore M. Burton, Salvation and Exaltation, Ensign, July 1972

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.

Do you believe those who didn't accept Jesus Christ or His gospel will suffer in Hell for eternity? If you do, than our beliefs are already more merciful than yours. Of course there are going to be different levels of salvation...everybody isn't going to be the same! For Heavens Sake, it just makes sense that people will receive the level that they not only earned, but that they are probably most comfortable with. You are under the continued mistaken impression that if you are not a card carrying member of the LDS church in the short years you are on this earth, when you die, you will not be eligible for exaltation, that's it, end of story. That wouldn't be fair now would it? I have a STRONG testimony that those who are faithful believers in Christ while they were on this earth, will be jumping at the opportunity to accept the gospel and the ordinances that were performed on their behalf. Again...if you don't believe in that....it won't matter know will it? But you can't keep painting the church to be this intolerant sanctimonious holier-than-thou organization when we believe you receive chance after chance after chance...and it doesn't end with this mortal life. What other church believes that? Please tell me. Yes...there are requirements and WORK you have to do to progress to the level that you will be back in the presence of the Lord, and yes, that is completely reasonable because we are NOT supposed to be en***led brats who don't have to do anything to receive everything.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Grandma

[B]"

Jesus taught that all will be resurrected, but that some are resurrected to ****ation.

This is correct....

Well spoke!

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Do you believe those who didn't accept Jesus Christ or His gospel will suffer in Hell for eternity? If you do, than our beliefs are already more merciful than yours. Of course there are going to be different levels of salvation...everybody isn't going to be the same! For Heavens Sake, it just makes sense that people will receive the level that they not only earned, but that they are probably most comfortable with. You are under the continued mistaken impression that if you are not a card carrying member of the LDS church in the short years you are on this earth, when you die, you will not be eligible for exaltation, that's it, end of story. That wouldn't be fair now would it? I have a STRONG testimony that those who are faithful believers in Christ while they were on this earth, will be jumping at the opportunity to accept the gospel and the ordinances that were performed on their behalf. Again...if you don't believe in that....it won't matter know will it? But you can't keep painting the church to be this intolerant sanctimonious holier-than-thou organization when we believe you receive chance after chance after chance...and it doesn't end with this mortal life. What other church believes that? Please tell me. Yes...there are requirements and WORK you have to do to progress to the level that you will be back in the presence of the Lord, and yes, that is completely reasonable because we are NOT supposed to be en***led brats who don't have to do anything to receive everything.

Facts matter more that false doctrine. Heaven doesn't have levels. The only people there have the righteousness of Christ. If they don't, they aren't there. If they have the righteousness of Christ they're equals. Works don't earn you anything.

Non-Mormons do NOT receive chance after chance. Who gave you that idea? It isn't Mormon doctrine. Eternal life is a gift from God to those who received his mercy. No one deserves His mercy; that's why it's called mercy. I'm going to fall on my face when I see God because He showed me such mercy.

Love,

Grandma

[MickeyS]

I

Originally Posted by Grandma

Facts matter more that false doctrine. Heaven doesn't have levels. The only people there have the righteousness of Christ. If they don't, they aren't there. If they have the righteousness of Christ they're equals. Works don't earn you anything.

Non-Mormons do NOT receive chance after chance. Who gave you that idea? It isn't Mormon doctrine. Eternal life is a gift from God to those who received his mercy. No one deserves His mercy; that's why it's called mercy. I'm going to fall on my face when I see God because He showed me such mercy.

Oh my word, you really believe God went through ALL this effort in creating a world, creating humans, sending us through a mortal experience, sacrificing His son to test us to determine whether we return to His presence and its both exceedingly simple "Just believe in Christ" and infinitely harsh "In this short human span of your life, regardless of your circumstances, if haven't accepted Jesus Christ by the time you die, you go to hell". That's terrible, but of course you're ok with it because you're one of the "saved" ones, but it doesn't bother you about the intolerant ETERNAL fate of your fellow man?? And that seriously makes sense to you? So you seriously believe in being an en***led spoiled child that doesn't have to do anything but think happy thoughts about Jesus to go to Heaven, and someone who was raised in a family that didn't have exposure to the teachings of Christ, didn't live long enough or had other extenuating circumstances is just banned from Heaven for eternity? Please tell me that doesn't make you sick. That literally just made my stomach twist. Don't you care about other people? And Who told you "non-Mormons" don't get chances to accept the Gospel?

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

I

Oh my word, you really believe God went through ALL this effort in creating a world, creating humans, sending us through a mortal experience, sacrificing His son to test us to determine whether we return to His presence and its both exceedingly simple "Just believe in Christ" and infinitely harsh "In this short human span of your life, regardless of your circumstances, if haven't accepted Jesus Christ by the time you die, you go to hell". That's terrible, but of course you're ok with it because you're one of the "saved" ones, but it doesn't bother you about the intolerant ETERNAL fate of your fellow man?? And that seriously makes sense to you? So you seriously believe in being an en***led spoiled child that doesn't have to do anything but think happy thoughts about Jesus to go to Heaven, and someone who was raised in a family that didn't have exposure to the teachings of Christ, didn't live long enough or had other extenuating circumstances is just banned from Heaven for eternity? Please tell me that doesn't make you sick. That literally just made my stomach twist. Don't you care about other people? And Who told you "non-Mormons" don't get chances to accept the Gospel?

It's not my idea to have people love sin more than God, but I see it all around me. God's decisions don't make me sick. People's blindness in mocking God is what's sickening. I care a lot about sinners, but that doesn't make them want to stop sinning. I'm kind to them and they go on their merry ways because they LOVE darkness. I was raised in a family that didn't love God. My grandparents didn't love God. My siblings are flaming liberals. My mother is bent on revenge. I'm blessed that God wanted me to read His word. I'm blessed that I'm still alive (2 siblings died of cancer; 2 are slowly killing themselves) and can read God's word more every day. I don't deserve salvation; neither does anyone else. Humans are sinful and yes, it's sad. I'm blessed because I can talk to Mormons and be insulted by them and not feel angry towards them. I'm a servant of Christ; why do you think I'm a spoiled child?

Will answer your question about second chances in another post.

Love,

Grandma

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Grandma

It's not my idea to have people love sin more than God, but I see it all around me. God's decisions don't make me sick. People's blindness in mocking God is what's sickening. I care a lot about sinners, but that doesn't make them want to stop sinning. I'm kind to them and they go on their merry ways because they LOVE darkness. I was raised in a family that didn't love God. My grandparents didn't love God. My siblings are flaming liberals. My mother is bent on revenge. I'm blessed that God wanted me to read His word. I'm blessed that I'm still alive (2 siblings died of cancer; 2 are slowly killing themselves) and can read God's word more every day. I don't deserve salvation; neither does anyone else. Humans are sinful and yes, it's sad. I'm blessed because I can talk to Mormons and be insulted by them and not feel angry towards them. I'm a servant of Christ; why do you think I'm a spoiled child?

Will answer your question about second chances in another post.

First of all, I came here to have discussions and was immediately insulted, and you continue to do so, I'm just responding. It's interesting that you say you don't deserve salvation but you expect it without putting forth any effort. That's what I meant by likening it to a spoiled child. I'm not talking about "sinners" I'm talking about someone who didn't get an opportunity to be exposed to Christs teachings. What do you think of them? And do you believe a loving parent would submit a child to an eternity of endless torment for not understanding or making mistakes? I apologize if I have come across as being insulting, I've been on the defensive, you don't see ANY good in what I believe...its mind boggling, I apologize, I will attempt to not behave that way.

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

I
And Who told you "non-Mormons" don't get chances to accept the Gospel?

I said they don't get multiple chances ("chance after chance") according to Mormon leaders.



..."Now is the time and the day of your salvation," Amulek said. "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .... For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." (Alma 34:31-35; 2 Ne. 9:27; 3 Ne. 28:34; Luke 9:62.)

An application of this law is seen in the words of the resurrected Christ to the Nephites. "Therefore come unto me and be ye saved," he said in repeating with some variations the Sermon on the Mount he had previously given the Jews, "for verily I say unto you, that except ye shall keep my commandments, which I have commanded you at this time, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (3 Ne. 12:20.) Thus salvation was forever denied those Nephites unless they gained it by virtue of their obedience during mortality. On the same basis, there is no such thing as salvation for the dead for the Latter-day Saints who have been taught the truths of salvation and had a fair and just opportunity to live them.

Those who have a fair and just opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and who do not do it, but who then do accept it when they hear it in the spirit world will go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom. This includes those to whom Noah preached. "These are they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it." (D. & C. 76:72-74.)

Thus the false and heretical doctrine that people who fail to live the law in this life (having had an opportunity so to do) will have a further chance of salvation in the life to come is a soul-destroying doctrine, a doctrine that lulls its adherents into carnal security and thereby denies them a hope of eternal salvation. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 181-196.)

Second Chance Theory, Bruce R. McCinkie

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Grandma

I said they don't get multiple chances ("chance after chance") according to Mormon leaders.



..."Now is the time and the day of your salvation," Amulek said. "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .... For after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." (Alma 34:31-35; 2 Ne. 9:27; 3 Ne. 28:34; Luke 9:62.)

An application of this law is seen in the words of the resurrected Christ to the Nephites. "Therefore come unto me and be ye saved," he said in repeating with some variations the Sermon on the Mount he had previously given the Jews, "for verily I say unto you, that except ye shall keep my commandments, which I have commanded you at this time, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (3 Ne. 12:20.) Thus salvation was forever denied those Nephites unless they gained it by virtue of their obedience during mortality. On the same basis, there is no such thing as salvation for the dead for the Latter-day Saints who have been taught the truths of salvation and had a fair and just opportunity to live them.

Those who have a fair and just opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and who do not do it, but who then do accept it when they hear it in the spirit world will go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom. This includes those to whom Noah preached. "These are they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it." (D. & C. 76:72-74.)

Thus the false and heretical doctrine that people who fail to live the law in this life (having had an opportunity so to do) will have a further chance of salvation in the life to come is a soul-destroying doctrine, a doctrine that lulls its adherents into carnal security and thereby denies them a hope of eternal salvation. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 181-196.)

Second Chance Theory, Bruce R. McCinkie

D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

It is fun to find someone on the forum that knows so much on these topics...

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

It is fun to find someone on the forum that knows so much on these topics...

It's a relief to have you show up now and then. I was tired and put Monson's name in a post instead of Hinckley's and theway started jumping all over me. Well, that's nothing compared to the way some Muslim women are treated or Christians in the Middle East and Africa.