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Thread: Freedom from What?

  1. #1
    Grandma
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    Default Freedom from What?

    Who we are by nature determines the choices we make. Only God's grace can change us because we are in bondage to sin without God's grace.

    Adam wasn't in bondage to sin, nor was he sealed to righteousness as glorified saints are. He disobeyed God and we inherited a sin nature because of what he did.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    In Romans 6:11 we read: In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:46 tells us that the natural man comes first, and afterwards the spiritual (when the Son sets us free).
    Apart from God's grace those who are in bondage to sin can't be set free.

    Jesus spoke to the unbelieving Jews, "42...If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

    Acts 26
    15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


    Mormon teaching is that Adam's fall was a blessing, because he and Eve were too innocent to have children until after the fall.


    "Adam and Eve had to break the lesser commandment, and incur the Fall, in order to fulfil the greater commandment. (LDS Apostle McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pages 84, 91).

    The greater commandment was to have children, the lesser commandment was to not eat the forbidden fruit.

    Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 2
    19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

    20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

    21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

    22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

    23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

    24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

    25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

    26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.

    Pearl of Great Price, Moses 5:8 (After the fall)

    9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.

    10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

    11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

    Love in Christ,

    Grandma
    Last edited by Grandma; 09-20-2015 at 10:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Grandma
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    Doesn't anyone want to tell us what we are set free from?

    John 8:36
    If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    Love,

    Grandma

  3. #3
    Grandma
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    It appears that Mormons don't read their Bibles very often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandma View Post
    It appears that Mormons don't read their Bibles very often.
    Actually, according to surveys and polls, Mormons read their Bible more than any religious group. Also, it's been proved that Mormons have a greater knowledge of the Bible and other religions, more than any other Christian group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    2 Timothy 2:23

    Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.

    So why then do mormons tell us that joe smith said our 'professors' were all corrupt, and not of God?

    Why do mormon 'missionaries' tell us the same trash?

    Do you REALLY expect no quarrels?

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    Default Reality demonstrates otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Actually, according to surveys and polls, Mormons read their Bible more than any religious group. Also, it's been proved that Mormons have a greater knowledge of the Bible and other religions, more than any other Christian group.


    Of course all of those supposed 'surveys and polls' were taken BY mormons, OF mormons and only reflect what the mormons themselves want to claim.

    REALITY demonstrates otherwise. The TRUTH is that mormons study their own bom, pgp, and d&c, and do LIP SERVICE to the Bible. Nothing more.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post

    So why then do mormons tell us that joe smith said our 'professors' were all corrupt, and not of God?

    Why do mormon 'missionaries' tell us the same trash?

    Do you REALLY expect no quarrels?
    They come here to argue, but they are selective about their participation. If they don't know the answer, they ignore the question and if they ignore the question, one of them will quote 2 Timothy 2:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post


    Of course all of those supposed 'surveys and polls' were taken BY mormons, OF mormons and only reflect what the mormons themselves want to claim.

    REALITY demonstrates otherwise. The TRUTH is that mormons study their own bom, , and d&c, and do LIP SERVICE to the Bible. Nothing more.
    LOL?... Of course they were polls and surveys TAKEN by Mormons.... How else did you think they could have gotten the results.... Come on.... Think before you post.

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    Way--No pride here... Honestly--you have no way to prove the last half of this so it ends up sounding a lot like ego.
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

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    MickeyS--This forum is for discussion and if you don't wish to discuss the theological issue that Grandma posted, then don't--but lecturing her for posting a reasonable topic is not logical or acceptable.
    How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. 1 John 3:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    Way--No pride here... Honestly--you have no way to prove the last half of this so it ends up sounding a lot like ego.
    http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u...wledge-survey/
    If you notice, out of "Christian groups" Mormons know more about other religions; and when it comes to Bible knowledge, Mormons are at the top for all groups.
    There are of course other surveys which show the same thing if you would like?
    Last edited by theway; 09-28-2015 at 08:09 AM.

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    Here is one about religious activity amoung Churches in America.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2012/01/12/m...and-practices/

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    Here is one (based on another survey) which shows that the more educated a Mormon becomes and the more they learn about their Church and its gospel, the stronger they become in their faith.
    THIS IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF EVERY OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUP OUT THERE.
    Ironically, this means that this website is actually creating stronger Mormons who are Christians.
    This was why other websites like Concerned Christians had to expel all Mormons from the forum. The reason they themselves stated was that NonMormons on the forum were being converted to the LDS Church instead of converting Mormons to their doctrine.


    http://www.mormonsandscience.com/rel...buck-the-trend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jill View Post
    Way--No pride here...
    Oh I guess it is a bit of pride.... However Mormons are also taught to beware when we start to say "all is well in Zion". These are the last days and I realize it will take more than a knowledge of Biblical facts to fight the good fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    LOL?... Of course they were polls and surveys TAKEN by Mormons.... How else did you think they could have gotten the results.... Come on.... Think before you post.

    ANYONE can conduct a poll or survey of ANY group, and by 'loading the language' of the questions, get the answers they want. THEN the 'taker' can 'interpret' his/her data any way he/she wants.

    Mormon apologists like this guy can do EXACTLY THAT. AND OF COURSE since he has a vested interest in keeping his *** with the mormon religion, he will do EXACTLY THAT just as his hired 'takers' will do.

    Yep, mormons who claim the authority of the mormon religion to 'prove' that mormonism is true will not find anything other than that.

    Of course if he were to rely upon PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE surveys and polls so we might see WHO was polled and surveyed, and WHAT WHAT was asked. . .we might take you a little more seriously.

    The TRUTH however is that it is not what popularity believes, but what GOD SAYS that matters. And what joey smith said doesn't line up with what GOD SAYS in the Bible.

    Joey smith's imaginary people, places, and events in the bom are nothing more than fiction. You have ZERO EVIDENCE that they ever existed in reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u...wledge-survey/
    If you notice, out of "Christian groups" Mormons know more about other religions; and when it comes to Bible knowledge, Mormons are at the top for all groups.
    There are of course other surveys which show the same thing if you would like?
    Ask the SAME secular people if Jesus was a white man. . .see what you get! Ask if any of them have ever seen a PICTURE of Jesus. . .they'll likely say "yes" and claim they know what He looks like.

    BUT OF COURSE. . .

    He was an ISRAELITE, likely a short, slight, DARK skinned man. . .

    What do the SECULAR people know about Jesus, OR True Christianity OR mormonism? HOW MANY OF THEM have actually opened a Bible at least once in the last five years?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post

    ANYONE can conduct a poll or survey of ANY group, and by 'loading the language' of the questions, get the answers they want. THEN the 'taker' can 'interpret' his/her data any way he/she wants.

    Mormon apologists like this guy can do EXACTLY THAT. AND OF COURSE since he has a vested interest in keeping his *** with the mormon religion, he will do EXACTLY THAT just as his hired 'takers' will do.

    Yep, mormons who claim the authority of the mormon religion to 'prove' that mormonism is true will not find anything other than that.

    Of course if he were to rely upon PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE surveys and polls so we might see WHO was polled and surveyed, and WHAT WHAT was asked. . .we might take you a little more seriously.

    The TRUTH however is that it is not what popularity believes, but what GOD SAYS that matters. And what joey smith said doesn't line up with what GOD SAYS in the Bible.

    Joey smith's imaginary people, places, and events in the bom are nothing more than fiction. You have ZERO EVIDENCE that they ever existed in reality.
    First off, these were not "Mormon" polls or surveys, and they were not conducted by Mormons.
    Second, I don't care if you take me serious, however the reason no one takes you serious is because if you had read the link and went to the bottom, they go into great detail about the methodology of the polls, and the data sets they collected. How can you be taken seriously when you weren't even able to see that?
    Also, it was you who made a claim about Mormons which has now so completely been proven to be untrue based on evidence I have provided..... What exact do you have to support your claim???

  18. #18
    Grandma
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    Can Pew Research tell you from what Christ sets us free? I didn't think so.

  19. #19
    MickeyS
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Here is one (based on another survey) which shows that the more educated a Mormon becomes and the more they learn about their Church and its gospel, the stronger they become in their faith.
    THIS IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF EVERY OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUP OUT THERE.
    Ironically, this means that this website is actually creating stronger Mormons who are Christians.
    This was why other websites like Concerned Christians had to expel all Mormons from the forum. The reason they themselves stated was that NonMormons on the forum were being converted to the LDS Church instead of converting Mormons to their doctrine.


    http://www.mormonsandscience.com/rel...buck-the-trend
    Wow, this is really amazing, thank you for sharing it

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    Quote Originally Posted by childofgod View Post
    Not the point. Critics here claim mormons don't know the Bible yet an unbiased organization generated a survey that has found Mormons to know more about the Bible than other Christian denomination. The point is we do know the Bible better because we study it without personal interpretation, but with the Spirit.
    An 'unbiased' SECULAR organization that doesn't know Christianity (It still thinks Catholicism is Christian) from apples. You can find 'surveys' to support ANY position you wish to support, you know. . .

    Surveys depend upon the validity of questions. Pew doesn't even know what to ask.

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    cog posted:

    Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
    An 'unbiased' SECULAR organization that doesn't know Christianity (It still thinks Catholicism is Christian) from apples. You can find 'surveys' to support ANY position you wish to support, you know. . .

    Surveys depend upon the validity of questions. Pew doesn't even know what to ask.


    First, catholics are christians. If they're not then not 1 protestant is a christian since protestantism is a fruit of catholicism.

    Only in the minds of mormons and catholics and a few other NON-Christian groups. The TRUTH is that catholicism doesn't even RESEMBLE the first century church with all of its 'additives,' just like the mormons don't.

    And your false belief that CHRISTIANITY came from the catholics only shows the ignorance of your religion. CHRISTIANITY has been around a LOT LONGER than either mormonism OR catholicism. We have been here for about 2,000 years. Catholicism has been around less than 1,700 years, mormonism, less than 200 years.


    Second, how do you know what they asked?

    I don't. It is likely YOU don't. YOU are the one claiming them to be accurate and TRUE however, so it is up to YOU to prove it.

    As for what I support, nothing but Satan is against what I support.

    Satan does not fight himself. Mormonism, white supremecism and other 'isms' of those types are not from God.

    The church is true and you can't convince me its not.

    You are correct, I cannot convince you of anything. The TRUTH is GOD'S and only HE can convince you and lead you out of your darkness. I don't know if your heart is too hardened or not.


    I've had many powerful experiences in my life that testify . . .

    As a NON-mormon, I too have had many experiences in MY life that testify of the Holy Spirit working in and through me, in and through CHRIST'S church of which I am a member. I have also prayed over your book of mormon and other writings by joseph smith and the Holy Spirit has SOLIDLY shown me those pieces of junk are NOT FROM HIM AT ALL.

    You follow 'a spirit' alright, but it is NOT the Holy Spirit talked about in God's Word, the BIBLE. YOUR 'spirit' is from satan, imho

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    cog posted:

    I follow the God of the Bible. The reason you can't convince me this isn't the true church is because God has confirmed to me it is. Its purely true and from God.

    Unfortunately the 'god' who 'confirmed' it to you is NOT the God of the Bible. I too prayed with an open mind and a humble heart over the bom after reading it.

    THE REAL GOD OF THE BIBLE gave me a VERY CLEAR "NO" for an answer.

    Now UNLESS YOU BELIEVE A GOD WHO IS A LIAR. . .


    You've never studied the scriptures spiritually, just from a biased point of view.

    I ADMIT BIAS. . .TOWARDS GOD. When I study, I ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW how God wants me to understand and I WANT TO KNOW how God will change me even more.

    Your "***umptions" about how I have studied are simply ***umptions, imho. Like so much of mormonism, they simply do NOT MATCH REALITY.


    You're not sincere in your "studies". You believe whatever you want, not what the Savior has taught.

    I'm glad YOU think you are psychic. . .once again you are as wrong as hitler was. Simply totally WRONG.


    I know what the voice of the Holy Ghost sounds like and He, not some made up trinity, testifies that this is true.

    So YOU disbelieve what EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE believes. . .
    That
    The FATHER IS GOD
    JESUS CHRIST is GOD
    THE HOLY SPIRIT is GOD
    AND
    THEY ARE ONE GOD.

    You DO know that puts you right there with the heathens, don't you? Simply labeling that concept 'Trinity' does NOT MEAN IT IS 'MADE UP.' It remains TRUE.

    And whoever or whatever 'testifies' the opposite is a liar and not of God.


    You also admit you don't know whether or not I follow God or Satan or you wouldn't have said it to be an opinion.
    That's a big difference between you and I, you have an opinion that I follow Satan and I KNOW for a FACT, without any opinion at all, that I follow God, the true God, the Father.

    I know FOR A FACT that IF YOU FOLLOW THE 'spirit-brother-of-satan-jesus' invented by joey smith, you are following a FALSE god and a FALSE christ, and a FALSE prophet.

    I don't follow something created.

    GOD said JESUS created the angels. Satan is a fallen angel. IF YOUR 'jesus' even exists, he is one of those, according to joey smith. "Jesus created Jesus?" Naah, your cult's theory sinks.

    something you repeat all the time because nobody can get it through your thick head, but I follow the God of the Bible.
    I am a Christian and no rule on a forum nor any opinion from those who are not in the fold of the Good Shepherd can change that.
    Hitler was not a Christian if he didn't receive faith from Jesus Christ in his last day or so. I can tell you that without doubt.

    YOU are not a Christian if you follow the fake 'prophet' joey smith or the gods and half-brother-of-satan "jesus" he invented. I can say THAT without a doubt too.

    Whether you follow demons on the God of the Bible is not up to me. Your heart may simply be too hard (like pharaoh's was) to find God; that is up to HIM.

    IF your prophet were a 'prophet' and IF his 'lineage' was p***ed to bringum young and down to your CURRENT 'presidents,' WHY CAN YOUR 'PROPHETS' NOT PROPHESY? Why does your d&c end about a hundred years ago with NO NEW PROPHESIES IN IT? NO 'modern day revelation?'

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Actually, according to surveys and polls, Mormons read their Bible more than any religious group. Also, it's been proved that Mormons have a greater knowledge of the Bible and other religions, more than any other Christian group.
    Religions mean nothing. Compare your data with the truly born again Christians.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by childofgod View Post
    Not the point. Critics here claim mormons don't know the Bible yet an unbiased organization generated a survey that has found Mormons to know more about the Bible than other Christian denomination. The point is we do know the Bible better because we study it without personal interpretation, but with the Spirit.
    Denominations are Christians. The comparison should be Mormons versus true Christians,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandma View Post
    Denominations are Christians.
    No they're not; denominations are Christian, people are Christians.

    The comparison should be Mormons versus true Christians,
    It would be nonsensical to compare us to ourselves. Maybe the comparison should be Protestants versus true Christians.

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