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Thread: Religion built upon a god who failed.

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    I agree. What numerous denominations do mean--that it does not follow the NT pattern--where God had one denomination which He accepted--which had living, mortal apostles and prophets.
    . you keep placing the word denomination in there but that is the wrong word to use. prophets have to be 100% correct to be of God, I have yet to see mormon prophets correct even 10% of the time. yur apostles do not follow the example of biblical apostles. you can claim that they do but in the long run you miss the mark.
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDavidT View Post
    . you keep placing the word denomination in there but that is the wrong word to use. prophets have to be 100% correct to be of God, I have yet to see mormon prophets correct even 10% of the time. yur apostles do not follow the example of biblical apostles. you can claim that they do but in the long run you miss the mark.
    More straw man arguments.

    Again---What numerous denominations do mean--is that it does not follow the NT pattern--where God had one denomination which He accepted--which had living, mortal apostles and prophets.

  3. #103
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    More straw man arguments.

    Again---What numerous denominations do mean--is that it does not follow the NT pattern--where God had one denomination which He accepted--which had living, mortal apostles and prophets.
    actually........better have a look at Luke 9:49

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    More straw man arguments.

    Again---What numerous denominations do mean--is that it does not follow the NT pattern--where God had one denomination which He accepted--which had living, mortal apostles and prophets.
    actually........better have a look at Luke 9:49

  5. #105
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post More straw man arguments.

    Again---What numerous denominations do mean--is that it does not follow the NT pattern--where God had one denomination which He accepted--which had living, mortal apostles and prophets.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    actually........better have a look at Luke 9:49
    How are you relating Luke9:49 with the fact numerous denominations do not fit the Biblical NT pattern--where there was only one denomination which God accepted?

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

  6. #106
    alanmolstad
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    From time to time you run into people that have put aside their own faith, and have raised up the concept of an ins***ution as being the most important things in a Christians life.

    its not what you know, its who you signed up with that counts with God.


    They put the organization at the top of the list of reasons why they believe that are saved...

    This tends to force them to place the position of faith at lower and lower levels of importance to them.

    many of these people tend to think faith is of little value compared to belonging to the right organization.


    I know that when you start to think only members of your church are saved, this tends to slant the way the person views the christian faith...

    Into this mess I like to point out that the same foolish thinking was going on right at the start of the Christian church..
    When Jesus was offering the path of salvation to all men, he had to also deal with the fact that even then there were guys among his 12 main guys that were attempting to make the Christian faith, "us and us alone"

    The Apostle John was thinking that because some people were not connected to the 12, they must not be in the real church.

    Jesus sets him straight on that issue.


    Jesus make it very clear, you don't have to be 'connected" to squat.

    You don't have to have an Apostle...you don't have to have permission....you don't have to have any form of organizational structure.




    So in other words...You dont need to think you have to join an organized church structure....You dont need to think you have to join a church in the line from Saint Peter...You dont have to worry that you are on the wrong side of anything just because you are not signed up at this or that local church...

    This means that when I write to the "Church at Fargo"...Im not talking about a building...Im not talking about a denomination....Im not talking about a organized religious structure...

    rather Im talking about all they who have faith in Christ.

  7. #107
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    You don't have to have an Apostle...you don't have to have permission....you don't have to have any form of organizational structure.
    Christ's church had an organizational structure:

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    So in other words...You dont need to think you have to join an organized church structure....You dont need to think you have to join a church in the line from Saint Peter...You dont have to worry that you are on the wrong side of anything just because you are not signed up at this or that local church...

    This means that when I write to the "Church at Fargo"...Im not talking about a building...Im not talking about a denomination....Im not talking about a organized religious structure...

    rather Im talking about all they who have faith in Christ.
    Where do we find anyone who had faith in Christ, after the resurrection--outside of the foundation Christ built--which was built one the living, mortal apostles and prophets--Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone?

    Where do we find numerous denominations teaching divers theologies--and God accepting all of them?

    Matthew 7:13-14---King James Version (KJV)
    13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Alan--any church which preaches there isn't the first act of obedience to Jesus Christ which is necessary for His grace unto life--isn't His church:

    Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Christ's church had an organizational structure:
    .....
    Nope,,,,quite the opposite is actually true...

    men make organizations..God saves souls.
    Never confuse one with the other..

    The moment Jesus was told that there was someone out there preaching and doing works that was not connected to him personally or connected in any way to the 12 Jesus had his chance to back the "We are an organization" concept.

    But Jesus did not do that.

    Rather is warned the 12 not to stop independent movements of the Spirit in the world of ministry.



    This alone settles forever this issue.


    The Christian church was not and will never be ***ociated with some type of single official organization.

    This also means that all church organizations are simply the result of men's actions and the human need we seem to always display to form "clubs" where we can hang the words "keep out" on the doors...





    Now had Jesus said to the 12, "Go stop that independent preacher and tell him he has to join our organization to be considered part of the Christian church", then the people that claim their church is the only true church might have a case...

    But because Jesus said what he said, I find the whole concept that the true church must be organized to be without any merit at all.



    When picking a replacement for the traitor the 11 remaining drew straws....they drew straws from someone who had been with them from the beginning...
    In other words, the 11 men decided to pick a replacement the way an organization thinks this is done,,,you pick a man who is also inside your organization...


    But, God picked Saul.....


    and lets just say that at the time, Saul was just slightly outside that organization....





    The message of the Bible therefore is very clear.|

    We are saved by Grace though faith...and it is by our FAITH that we are known by God as his church....

    Faith is what made me a Christian.....not the particular building I happened to have my **** planted in.

  9. #109
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    Default inconsistent mormon religion

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    Originally Posted by Christian
    JESUS was alive and on earth too. . .HE is the chief CORNERSTONE. IF you claim the 12 9actually 13) Apostles have to be CURRENTLY ALIVE here on earth, then TO BE CONSISTENT you MUST HAVE A LIVE JESUS CHRIST HERE ON EARTH TOO. . WHERE IS HE?
    Just where He was after Pentecost--in heaven. But His apostles were here on earth--living, mortal apostles.

    Where are the living, mortal apostles of Christ's church today?


    They are at the same location as Jesus. . .IN HEAVEN. Your false prophet's theories are ****n back into the pit from which they came.

    Your religion is not very consistent, IS IT?

  10. #110
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Christ's church had an organizational structure:

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Nope,,,,quite the opposite is actually true...
    The opposite may be true in most churches today--but not Christ's Church:

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    Ephesians 4:11-14---King James Version (KJV)
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Just where He was after Pentecost--in heaven. But His apostles were here on earth--living, mortal apostles.

    Where are the living, mortal apostles of Christ's church today?
    The FOUNDATION is with the CORNERSTONE, NOT with the strangites, rlds, fundamentalist lds, temple lot lds, or utah lds religions.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    The FOUNDATION is with the CORNERSTONE, NOT with the strangites, rlds, fundamentalist lds, temple lot lds, or utah lds religions.
    Hi Christian:

    The foundation is just what the scriptures testify to:

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

  13. #113
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    Default His manmade 'foundation" just crumbled.

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Hi Christian:

    The foundation is just what the scriptures testify to:

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    NOT ONE WORD
    about "mortal" or "living on the earth" foundation OR Cornerstone. In other words, YOUR so-called 'apostles' are frauds; the REAL ONES are still IN HEAVEN WITH THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. . .ALL PARTS OF THE SAME STRUCTURE.

    joey smith lied to you.

    Your smith-invented man-made 'foundation' just crumbled.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    More straw man arguments.

    Again---What numerous denominations do mean--is that it does not follow the NT pattern--where God had one denomination which He accepted--which had living, mortal apostles and prophets.
    How s what I said a strawman argument? I know mormons are tuaght to dance around difficult questions and avid discussing anything that would challenge their faith but you do not have a cue as to what is or isn't a strawman argument.

    again you use the word that God did not use. As I have said, there is no ancient religion that mirrors what Smith claims and there was no ancient religion that needed to be restored
    check the new book thread to find my new books

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by theway View Post
    Of course I understand that.... What you just described is called a RESTORATION!

    ONLY by the Biblically ignorant and by cultists.

    When it comes to some PERSON RETURNING TO THE ORIGINAL, it is NOT a 'restoration' of the original at all.

    Joey smith 'restored' ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT HAD EXISTED BEFORE OR BEEN "LOST" to Christ's church.

    Smith was a conman, peepstone gazer, fraud, criminal and heretic. He was killed while trying to kill others during a jail break-out.

  16. #116
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    Default They are JUST ANOTHER CULT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erundur View Post
    Yes, I know the Protestant god doesn't exist. Protestants believe he does, though.
    You mean the MORMON 'exalted man-god' doesn't exist in REALITY? THAT IS CORRECT. the mormon 'exalted man-god' was invented by joey smith, the liar, conman, common criminal and heretic.

    The mormon cult is considered 'protestant' by the inventors of the term, the roman catholics.

    The protestant mormon religion's god doesn't exist.

    The CHRISTIAN GOD (NEVER a man, BUT ALWAYS GOD) is alive, well, and has ruled HIS CHURCH for the last 2,000 years or so, despite the break-offs of some who left. Paul addressed that too, btw:

    1 John 2:19
    19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
    NKJV

    Of course we STILL don't have any reason to believe the utah group of mormons IS the one out of the 150+ such lds groups that each CLAIMED TO BE "THE ONLY" one of Smith's religion anywhere.

    So far all they are to us is 'just another cult.'

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    You mean the MORMON 'exalted man-god' doesn't exist in REALITY?
    No.

    Of course we STILL don't have any reason to believe the utah group of mormons IS the one out of the 150+ such lds groups that each CLAIMED TO BE "THE ONLY" one of Smith's religion anywhere.
    That's okay; we STILL don't have any reason to prefer any protestant sect to the Church of Jesus Christ, either.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    [COLOR=#0000ff]NOT ONE WORD about "mortal" or "living on the earth" foundation OR Cornerstone.
    Hi Christian:

    I was thinking the very author of the epistle to the Ephesians was a living, mortal apostle.

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

  19. #119
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Nope,,,,quite the opposite is actually true...

    men make organizations..God saves souls.
    Never confuse one with the other..

    The moment Jesus was told that there was someone out there preaching and doing works that was not connected to him personally or connected in any way to the 12 Jesus had his chance to back the "We are an organization" concept.

    But Jesus did not do that.

    Rather is warned the 12 not to stop independent movements of the Spirit in the world of ministry.



    This alone settles forever this issue.


    The Christian church was not and will never be ***ociated with some type of single official organization.

    This also means that all church organizations are simply the result of men's actions and the human need we seem to always display to form "clubs" where we can hang the words "keep out" on the doors...





    Now had Jesus said to the 12, "Go stop that independent preacher and tell him he has to join our organization to be considered part of the Christian church", then the people that claim their church is the only true church might have a case...

    But because Jesus said what he said, I find the whole concept that the true church must be organized to be without any merit at all.



    When picking a replacement for the traitor the 11 remaining drew straws....they drew straws from someone who had been with them from the beginning...
    In other words, the 11 men decided to pick a replacement the way an organization thinks this is done,,,you pick a man who is also inside your organization...


    But, God picked Saul.....


    and lets just say that at the time, Saul was just slightly outside that organization....





    The message of the Bible therefore is very clear.|

    We are saved by Grace though faith...and it is by our FAITH that we are known by God as his church....

    Faith is what made me a Christian.....not the particular building I happened to have my **** planted in.
    One of my better posts!

  20. #120
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    men make organizations..God saves souls.
    So--who made this organization?

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    So--who made this organization?

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    Jesus, whom YOU DON'T KNOW. You should note: JESUS AND HIS APOSTLES AND PROPHETS CURRENTLY RESIDE IN HEAVEN.

    The 150+ 'sets of apostles and prophets' of the lds religions. . .are not from Jesus at all, even though EACH OF THEM claimed to be the ONLY RIGHT ONES, just like the utah group does.

    The utah mormon religious organization is just as corrupt as islam is. NEITHER group is from God. BOTH groups follow the wrong 'christ.' Islam thinks Jesus was just a 'messenger.' Utah mormons are told THEIR 'jesus' was a spirit-brother-of-satan.

    BOTH GROUPS LIE.

  22. #122
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    Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post men make organizations..God saves souls.

    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostSo--who made this organization?

    Ephesians 2:20---King James Version (KJV)
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Jesus....
    Hi Christian:

    Then organizations are not limited to man-made organizations--especially within God's church.

    Christian--the LDS still have the living, mortal apostles and prophets--which, without them--there is no foundation.

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