How is the salt lake mormon group any different?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

Sorry, but if your 'reference' is to a false document from a heretical religion, your 'reference' has no value as a real reference.

Please don't tell me the rlds church doesn't exist any more. I have visited a congregation of them a couple of towns over on business. Their address? Look at their website for it. . .http://reorganizedchurch.org/index.html

LOL.... No what you have here is a Reorganized Church of a Reorganized Church of a Restoration Church of the Church Christ set up.... In other words, you have a splinter group of the Community of Christ Church (formally known as the RLDS Church). Hint: there is a reason they are calling themselves the "Reorganized Church" and not the "Reorganized Latter-Day Saint Church" (RLDS)
Had you of actually read your link they admit to it...


"By 1989, the church was fragmenting with the formation of several hundred Restoration Branches and the creation of a few Restoration Churches...

.....2005 is also the date of the first conference of Restoration Branches, convening four months later, after a year of planning. Because the acts of the World Conference disordered the church and placed the only lawful organization of the church in faithful branches, the Conference of Branches became the highest level of church government. Its beginnings were modest, but in April 2007, it declared itself a lawful successor and continuation of the RLDS Church and chose to abide the laws of the church as extant on January 1, 1958."

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL.... No what you have here is a Reorganized Church of a Reorganized Church of a Restoration Church of the Church Christ set up.... In other words, you have a splinter group of the Community of Christ Church (formally known as the RLDS Church). Hint: there is a reason they are calling themselves the "Reorganized Church" and not the "Reorganized Latter-Day Saint Church" (RLDS)
Had you of actually read your link they admit to it...


"By 1989, the church was fragmenting with the formation of several hundred Restoration Branches and the creation of a few Restoration Churches...

.....2005 is also the date of the first conference of Restoration Branches, convening four months later, after a year of planning. Because the acts of the World Conference disordered the church and placed the only lawful organization of the church in faithful branches, the Conference of Branches became the highest level of church government. Its beginnings were modest, but in April 2007, it declared itself a lawful successor and continuation of the RLDS Church and chose to abide the laws of the church as extant on January 1, 1958."

So now you are claiming that this 'non-existant church' has been renamed the Community of Christ Church and the RLDS is a 'splinter group.'

Either way, ONE of them is the church joseph smith invented, and the slc mormons are splinters (albiet major splinters. . .'great apostasies?')

And THAT leaves the utah lds in the exact SAME BOAT as the rest of the 150+ 'lds' religions.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

So now you are claiming that this 'non-existant church' has been renamed the Community of Christ Church and the RLDS is a 'splinter group.'

Either way, ONE of them is the church joseph smith invented, and the slc mormons are splinters (albiet major splinters. . .'great apostasies?')

And THAT leaves the utah lds in the exact SAME BOAT as the rest of the 150+ 'lds' religions.

No... And I don't know why you have such a bad comprehension problem.
All you had to do is read your own link to understand why your previous statement was false.
The RLDS was the third Church that came about after two failed attempts by Apostates at starting another Restoration Church. Not only that, but there was no connection to The Priesthood of Jesus Christ as there was about a 17 year span IIRC between the time Joseph Smith died and the RLDS was finally formed.
Today THERE IS NO LONGER A RLDS CHURCH... as you link points out, that church fragmented into hundreds of smaller Churches. The largest one became the Community of Christ. A few of the smaller one joined together in 2005 and called themselves "The Reorganized Church"
In other words, the Church you mentioned has only been around for about ten years, and is an offshoot of a Church that failed and doesn't exist anymore.
And no the COJCOLDS is not in the same boat, as the Church is still around and the Priesthood was never lost. The COJCOLDS followed secession as set down by revelation to Joseph Smith.
No other restoration Church can claim that.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

No... And I don't know why you have such a bad comprehension problem.
All you had to do is read your own link to understand why your previous statement was false.
The RLDS was the third Church that came about after two failed attempts by Apostates at starting another Restoration Church. Not only that, but there was no connection to The Priesthood of Jesus Christ as there was about a 17 year span IIRC between the time Joseph Smith died and the RLDS was finally formed.
Today THERE IS NO LONGER A RLDS CHURCH... as you link points out, that church fragmented into hundreds of smaller Churches. The largest one became the Community of Christ. A few of the smaller one joined together in 2005 and called themselves "The Reorganized Church"
In other words, the Church you mentioned has only been around for about ten years, and is an offshoot of a Church that failed and doesn't exist anymore.
And no the COJCOLDS is not in the same boat, as the Church is still around and the Priesthood was never lost. The COJCOLDS followed secession as set down by revelation to Joseph Smith.
No other restoration Church can claim that.

So let's see if I understand your position correctly. . .joseph smith's group shattered into pieces, young's group went west and claims to be 'the right one,'' and all of the other pieces were 'the wrong ones?' So the question remains (since each of THOSE groups thought they were the 'right ones,' HOW IS THE SALT LAKE GROUP ANY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER FRAGMENTS of smith's religion?

Just because 'you say so' doesn't cut it. Each of THEM 'has reasons why yours is false and theirs is true.' So what is the difference, and why should anyone believe you?

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

So let's see if I understand your position correctly. . .joseph smith's group shattered into pieces, young's group went west and claims to be 'the right one,'' and all of the other pieces were 'the wrong ones?' So the question remains (since each of THOSE groups thought they were the 'right ones,' HOW IS THE SALT LAKE GROUP ANY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER FRAGMENTS of smith's religion?

Just because 'you say so' doesn't cut it. Each of THEM 'has reasons why yours is false and theirs is true.' So what is the difference, and why should anyone believe you?

Well of course each has reasons.... But at the same time all the splinter groups defeat their own reasons by claiming to be the One True Church that Joseph restored.

If they claim to be the Church of Christ as restored by Joseph Smith, then they also believe in the revelations given to Joseph Smith by God and recorded in the D&C 107.
That being the case, then they are aware how succession is to be implemented in the true Church.

THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH WHICH HAS FOLLOWED THE SUCCESSION PROCESS, and that one Church is, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
All others are apostate.

But you already know this, you just don't want to lose you little AntiMormon talking point that you invented.
So you pretend you don't understand what I am saying.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Well of course each has reasons.... But at the same time all the splinter groups defeat their own reasons by claiming to be the One True Church that Joseph restored.

If they claim to be the Church of Christ as restored by Joseph Smith, then they also believe in the revelations given to Joseph Smith by God and recorded in the D&C 107.
That being the case, then they are aware how succession is to be implemented in the true Church.

THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH WHICH HAS FOLLOWED THE SUCCESSION PROCESS, and that one Church is, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
All others are apostate.

But you already know this, you just don't want to lose you little AntiMormon talking point that you invented.
So you pretend you don't understand what I am saying.

Of course they also say that bringum young added 'revelations' that joe smith never had, so your d&c 107 is worthless in your argument.

Yes, each of THEM has excuses just as the utah group do as to why THEY and ONLY THEY are the 'right one,' the one who followed their 'succession process.'

So how is the utah group any different?

Understanding you and agreeing with you are two different things. I DO understand you, and DO DISagree with what you are saying, of course.

But you must hold tight to your excuses. . .

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

Of course they also say that bringum young added 'revelations' that joe smith never had, so your d&c 107 is worthless in your argument.

Yes, each of THEM has excuses just as the utah group do as to why THEY and ONLY THEY are the 'right one,' the one who followed their 'succession process.'

So how is the utah group any different?

Understanding you and agreeing with you are two different things. I DO understand you, and DO DISagree with what you are saying, of course.

But you must hold tight to your excuses. . .

Nope sorry.... In your desperate attempt to save your little pet AntiMormon project, you just keep looking sillier and sadder.
The revelation in section 107 was around BEFORE Joseph Smith died, as Joseph Smith himself alluded to it several times. It was not an invention of Brigham Young.
After hours long arguments by all those who wanted to take over the Church at the death of Joseph Smith, all Brigham Young did was remind them of the revelation that already existed as to how to elect the next President of the Church.

Not only are you beating a dead horse, but your horse doesn't even have a leg to stand on.

[Christian]

some way posted:

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
Of course they also say that bringum young added 'revelations' that joe smith never had, so your d&c 107 is worthless in your argument.

Yes, each of THEM has excuses just as the utah group do as to why THEY and ONLY THEY are the 'right one,' the one who followed their 'succession process.'

So how is the utah group any different?

Understanding you and agreeing with you are two different things. I DO understand you, and DO DISagree with what you are saying, of course.

But you must hold tight to your excuses. . .

Nope sorry.... In your desperate attempt to save your little pet AntiMormon project, you just keep looking sillier and sadder.

Your pathetic ad hominem (personal attack) is noted. You sound pretty desperate. . .

The revelation in section 107 was around BEFORE Joseph Smith died, as Joseph Smith himself alluded to it several times. It was not an invention of Brigham Young.

At least that is what the utah mormons tell you. . .and they of course have a vested interest in making it look that way.

After hours long arguments by all those who wanted to take over the Church at the death of Joseph Smith, all Brigham Young did was remind them of the revelation that already existed as to how to elect the next President of the Church.

Not only are you beating a dead horse, but your horse doesn't even have a leg to stand on.

More pathetic ad hominem. It figures. It seems to be all you have. . .utah fabrications and excuses. Nothing to demonstrate any real difference between your group and the rest of the mormon groups.

And yes, the mormon religion IS a 'dead horse.'

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Christian

some way posted:



Nope sorry.... In your desperate attempt to save your little pet AntiMormon project, you just keep looking sillier and sadder.

Your pathetic ad hominem (personal attack) is noted. You sound pretty desperate. . .

The revelation in section 107 was around BEFORE Joseph Smith died, as Joseph Smith himself alluded to it several times. It was not an invention of Brigham Young.

At least that is what the utah mormons tell you. . .and they of course have a vested interest in making it look that way.

After hours long arguments by all those who wanted to take over the Church at the death of Joseph Smith, all Brigham Young did was remind them of the revelation that already existed as to how to elect the next President of the Church.

Not only are you beating a dead horse, but your horse doesn't even have a leg to stand on.

More pathetic ad hominem. It figures. It seems to be all you have. . .utah fabrications and excuses. Nothing to demonstrate any real difference between your group and the rest of the mormon groups.

And yes, the mormon religion IS a 'dead horse.'

Lol...oh wow...bless your heart....that's all I can say

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

some way posted:



Nope sorry.... In your desperate attempt to save your little pet AntiMormon project, you just keep looking sillier and sadder.

Your pathetic ad hominem (personal attack) is noted. You sound pretty desperate. . .

The revelation in section 107 was around BEFORE Joseph Smith died, as Joseph Smith himself alluded to it several times. It was not an invention of Brigham Young.

At least that is what the utah mormons tell you. . .and they of course have a vested interest in making it look that way.

After hours long arguments by all those who wanted to take over the Church at the death of Joseph Smith, all Brigham Young did was remind them of the revelation that already existed as to how to elect the next President of the Church.

Not only are you beating a dead horse, but your horse doesn't even have a leg to stand on.

More pathetic ad hominem. It figures. It seems to be all you have. . .utah fabrications and excuses. Nothing to demonstrate any real difference between your group and the rest of the mormon groups.

And yes, the mormon religion IS a 'dead horse.'

LOL.... I'm so glad you are against us and not for us...

Keep up "your" good work.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

LOL.... I'm so glad you are against us and not for us...

Keep up "your" good work.

I will continue to speak out against all cults, false prophets, and false doctrines. I am FOR Jesus Christ and against those things. So I will continue to be against the 150+ mormon cults and continue to uphold JESUS CHRIST and HIS church.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

I will continue to speak out against all cults, false prophets, and false doctrines. I am FOR Jesus Christ and against those things. So I will continue to be against the 150+ mormon cults and continue to uphold JESUS CHRIST and HIS church.

Well then, if you really feel the need to continue your crusade, then perhaps you'd better get your facts straight.

First, there are only about 100 sects which claim to be a part of the Mormon church in any way; not 150.

Second, out of those, only about 5 claim that they have a direct succession to Joseph Smith.... And out of those 5, only 3 exist today, (including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Utah). The other two Churches only have about 2,100 members combined, and are currently quickly going defunct.

Third, all the other sects are breaks-offs of one of those first 5 churches. Including the two largest...
The FLDS which are a apostate sect of the Utah church; and the Community of Christ which is a remenent if the defunct RLDS, which in turn is merely a break-off of several apostate break-offs of the Church Joseph Smith restored.(FYI, The "Restored Church" you linked to in this thread is merely a break-off of the defunct RLDS Church)

So I would center your argument around which of the 3 Churches claiming succession from the Church Joseph restored is the true one.
Seeing as you don't want to believe my proof that the LDS Church in Utah is the only legitimate Church, then you need only wait a few more years while the other two go defunct also.... And then there will be only one.

[Christian]

way posted:

Well then, if you really feel the need to continue your crusade, then perhaps you'd better get your facts straight.

First, there are only about 100 sects which claim to be a part of the Mormon church in any way; not 150.

Would you like me to repost the list that I posted before so you may count them?

Second, out of those, only about 5 claim that they have a direct succession to Joseph Smith.... And out of those 5, only 3 exist today, (including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Utah). The other two Churches only have about 2,100 members combined, and are currently quickly going defunct.

Joe smith thought CHRIST'S church had gone defunct, didn't he?

Of course JESUS told us:

Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV

So I am not impressed by your mormon group's large numbers. There are more muslims than mormons, btw, as well as MANY MORE catholics than mormons. So your numbers are NOT IMPRESSIVE AT ALL.


Third, all the other sects are breaks-offs of one of those first 5 churches. Including the two largest...
The FLDS which are a apostate sect of the Utah church; and the Community of Christ which is a remenent if the defunct RLDS, which in turn is merely a break-off of several apostate break-offs of the Church Joseph Smith restored.(FYI, The "Restored Church" you linked to in this thread is merely a break-off of the defunct RLDS Church)

So I would center your argument around which of the 3 Churches claiming succession from the Church Joseph restored is the true one.
Seeing as you don't want to believe my proof that the LDS Church in Utah is the only legitimate Church, then you need only wait a few more years while the other two go defunct also.... And then there will be only one.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh GOODNESS. You think God's church would fail. . .again!
Joe smith's theory that Jesus would build a church that would lose its authority or lose any of its scripture, or lose anything else has been debunked so many times. . .it's pathetic.