Joseph Smith's Motives

alanmolstad · 12-03-2015, 07:20 PM

alanmolstad · 07-30-2016, 06:38 AM

mostly what I see true in the actions of Smith and the reason he did the things he did was.....sex.

Thats about it....mostly just the sex was his main concern with his teachings....sex and power and money to be sure..

But when you read of how he would try to jump from bed to bed with different young girls, and how he was sniffing around the wives of the men he sent out of town on a 'mission", when you read that even at the end when he was on the run from the people who were out to kill him, even then as he took shelter in the homes of his most trusted followers, even THEN he would chase after the young daughters who also lived there.

**BigJulie** · 07-30-2016, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

mostly what I see true in the actions of Smith and the reason he did the things he did was.....sex.

Thats about it....mostly just the sex was his main concern with his teachings....sex and power and money to be sure..

But when you read of how he would try to jump from bed to bed with different young girls, and how he was sniffing around the wives of the men he sent out of town on a 'mission", when you read that even at the end when he was on the run from the people who were out to kill him, even then as he took shelter in the homes of his most trusted followers, even THEN he would chase after the young daughters who also lived there.

Yes, I can see why you would believe it was about sex. Or as Jesus Christ stated: "And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant" Luk 19:22

The one thing I come to understand about men is that they way that they see Joseph Smith tells me a LOT about how they see women. Marriage to them is about sex, not love, not protection, not responsibility. Therefore, if Joseph Smith married more than one woman, it must because he wanted sex. Because in YOUR eyes, this is what women and marriage must be for.

On the other hand, Christ also states "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Mat 7:18

And here is the proof of the revelations given to Joseph Smith regarding marriage--my husband, my son, my son-in-law--each treat their wife well. Their belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ as restored by Joseph Smith has turned their hearts from lustful beings into men who honor their wives and marriage.

**Phoenix** · 07-30-2016, 02:55 PM

I liked your observation about how men see Joseph Smith and marriage. I think there is truth in that.

BTW your inbox is full.

**DrDavidT** · 07-30-2016, 06:54 PM

Or as Jesus Christ stated: "And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant" Luk 19:22

How does that verse apply to what molstad said? How was he being a wicked servant by making an observation about the proclivities of a man who claimed to be a messenger of God? Since we know Smith's sexual activity and pedophilia traits, Molstad is not the one being wicked and how could Smith lead a church given the verses in both ***us and Timothy which state that overseers are to be the husband of one wife?

There is no biblical instruction for church leaders to live as the patriarchs lived and have multiple wives, including female children.

The one thing I come to understand about men is that they way that they see Joseph Smith tells me a LOT about how they see women. Marriage to them is about sex, not love, not protection, not responsibility. Therefore, if Joseph Smith married more than one woman, it must because he wanted sex. Because in YOUR eyes, this is what women and marriage must be for.

Your interpretation certainly does not make what you say as true and mislabels men who make the same observation yet do not view women and marriage as you describe.

On the other hand, Christ also states "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Mat 7:18

You keep bringing this verse but do not provide any evidence that Smith was producing good fruit. He was killed because of his sins not because he was holy and producing good fruit.

And here is the proof of the revelations given to Joseph Smith regarding marriage--my husband, my son, my son-in-law--each treat their wife well. Their belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ as restored by Joseph Smith has turned their hearts from lustful beings into men who honor their wives and marriage.

This isn't proof as many mormon men had multiple wives including Brigham Young. The idea of polygamy was dropped even though Smith said it was a command of God to have more than one wife when it was revealed that Utah would not receive statehood if they continued to believe and practice polygamy. It wasn't a holy change of a divine mind but the greed and selfish desire to be part of a secular nation that drove the Mormon church to give up one if its supposed divine commands.

**BigJulie** · 07-30-2016, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

How does that verse apply to what molstad said? How was he being a wicked servant by making an observation about the proclivities of a man who claimed to be a messenger of God? Since we know Smith's sexual activity and pedophilia traits, Molstad is not the one being wicked and how could Smith lead a church given the verses in both ***us and Timothy which state that overseers are to be the husband of one wife?

Christ's statement speaks to the truth that those who are wicked jump to believing that others are wicked or motivated by wickedness. In terms of psychology, it is called projection.

There is no biblical instruction for church leaders to live as the patriarchs lived and have multiple wives, including female children.

What Biblical patriarchs are you referring to? Abraham, Jacob? Do you believe that Abraham would have multiple wives if God told him NOT to?

Your interpretation certainly does not make what you say as true and mislabels men who make the same observation yet do not view women and marriage as you describe.

I have yet to experience otherwise. A man who views marriage as honorable which includes the responsibility to wife and children tend to jump more to the responsibility, not the sex side. It speaks to where a man's brain in when he thinks of marriage and women.

You keep bringing this verse but do not provide any evidence that Smith was producing good fruit. He was killed because of his sins not because he was holy and producing good fruit.

The fruit is my husband, my son, my son-in-law and other men I know who live the gospel as revealed by Joseph Smith. You seem to think that fruit is only produced by a person, rather than the offshoots of what that person taught.

Certainly, you would not require this same "proof" from Christ. Although the Pharisees called him wicked and murdered him for it, would you deny the "good fruit" of the lives today by those who believe in and follow Jesus Christ?

This isn't proof as many mormon men had multiple wives including Brigham Young. The idea of polygamy was dropped even though Smith said it was a command of God to have more than one wife when it was revealed that Utah would not receive statehood if they continued to believe and practice polygamy. It wasn't a holy change of a divine mind but the greed and selfish desire to be part of a secular nation that drove the Mormon church to give up one if its supposed divine commands.

It is proof because my husband and I believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet. I also have many ancestors who did practice polygamy. I know what type of people they were and what type of children they had. You think this not fruit? This is exactly the fruit of the revelations given to Joseph Smith which include the sanc***y of marriage, the eternal nature of marriage, the eternal nature of family and of children. While Alan only sees sex, what the fruit of this teaching is a man who loves and honors his wife. No other church that I know of teaches the sanc***y of family and its special place to God like Mormonism does. This makes us unique. This is one of the most beautiful understandings of who we are and who we are to God. Alan sees sex. We see family, unity, eternity, creation.

So yes, what Alan states specifically speaks to his mindset and how he views women.

**DrDavidT** · 07-30-2016, 09:02 PM

I have read julie's post but will only respond to select points as most of her words are just pure foolishness.

The bible records many different biblical figures as having multiple wives at the same time but there is no verse providing God's approval or permission for this behavior.

Belief is not proof that something is true and of God. It is evidence that someone has accepted the words of another person.

The question that needs to be answered is-- who died and left julie in charge of the meanings and intent of other people's words? Going to the sex issue does not provide any evidence that the person providing the critique has a bad view of marriage.

**BigJulie** · 07-30-2016, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

I have read julie's post but will only respond to select points as most of her words are just pure foolishness.

1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The bible records many different biblical figures as having multiple wives at the same time but there is no verse providing God's approval or permission for this behavior.

And yet these are the "patriarchs" that he identifies Himself with. He calls himself "
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Mat 22:32

If He is their God and their ruler, if he did not condone polygamy, they would NOT have lived it.

The question that needs to be answered is-- who died and left julie in charge of the meanings and intent of other people's words? Going to the sex issue does not provide any evidence that the person providing the critique has a bad view of marriage.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, I completely agree--who died and put you or Alan or anyone else in charge of the "intent".

Jumping right to sex when a person is a polygamist speaks to the persons mindset. If polygamy equates to only being a pervert for sex, then the same thing should be said about the patriarchs who clearly had multiple wives.

**BigJulie** · 07-30-2016, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by DrDavidT

I have read julie's post but will only respond to select points as most of her words are just pure foolishness.

1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The bible records many different biblical figures as having multiple wives at the same time but there is no verse providing God's approval or permission for this behavior.

And yet these are the "patriarchs" that he identifies Himself with. He calls himself "
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Mat 22:32

If He is their God and their ruler, if he did not condone polygamy, they would NOT have lived it.

The question that needs to be answered is-- who died and left julie in charge of the meanings and intent of other people's words? Going to the sex issue does not provide any evidence that the person providing the critique has a bad view of marriage.

Yes, I completely agree--who died and put you or Alan or anyone else in charge of the "intent".

Jumping right to sex when a person is a polygamist speaks to the persons mindset. If polygamy equates to only being a pervert for sex, then the same thing should be said about the patriarchs who clearly had multiple wives.

**DrDavidT** · 07-30-2016, 09:57 PM

1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

but you and the mormon cult do not have the things of the spirit of God. There is no biblical foundation to have more 'scripture' along with the Bible. The Bible doe snot speak of another prophet coming to restore the original faith and why would God wait 1800 years to do that? Seems unfair that he would allow so many people die without knowing 'the truth' and being able to do something about it.

postmordem (sp) baptism is not biblically based nor taught by Jesus or the disciples, nor is salvation after death.

If He is their God and their ruler, if he did not condone polygamy, they would NOT have lived it.

Really, so Abraham did not lie to the Pharaoh? David did not commit adultery and murder?

Jumping right to sex when a person is a polygamist speaks to the persons mindset

Who said we jumped right to the sex? That is your idea placed upon our words and research which you know nothing about. Your dismissal of ****ysis by others is one of your flaws.

Yes, I completely agree--who died and put you or Alan or anyone else in charge of the "intent".

Can't speak for molstad but I examine the evidence and the evidence shows that Smith had no regard for real marriage, no sanc***y of it or whatever you want to label it. you live in a dream world thinking that your prophet can do no wrong yet was killed for doing wrong not for being a light to a dark world.

That and the fact that no ancient m****cript attests to the existence of this supposed true religious belief or that anyone followed it if it did exist. Since the book of Mormon has zero archaeological evidence to support one iota of its words, Smith's marriage antics fall into the same category as all his other deeds--sinful desire which means he wanted lots of sex.

**DrDavidT** · 07-30-2016, 10:17 PM