Smith never saw God in the grove.

[Christian]

In the multiple different '1st vision accounts' that smith told, never once did he claim that ANY 'personage' or angel told him that IT WAS GOD, OR THAT THE OTHER WAS JESUS. You are just supposed to "***ume" that.

WHY SHOULD we? GOD never said He met joe in the woods. . .

[Phoenix]

Did Paul SAY that it was Jesus who yelled at
him on the road to Damascus?

Aren't we supposed to just ***ume it was Jesus ?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Did Paul SAY that it was Jesus who yelled at
him on the road to Damascus?

Aren't we supposed to just ***ume it was Jesus ?

Sorry, but joe smith is not God. GOD said it was Jesus that Paul encountered on the road to Damascus. joey smith's word is NOT scripture. It is just the words of a liar, adulterer, and conman. THAT's what the EVIDENCE tells us.

On the road to Damascus SAUL met Jesus, wondered who He was, and JESUS IDENTIFIED HIMSELF:

Acts 22:7-8
7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?' 8 So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.'
NKJV

But joey smith's supposed critters did NOT identify themselves as being God or Jesus.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

In the multiple different '1st vision accounts' that smith told, never once did he claim that ANY 'personage' or angel told him that IT WAS GOD, OR THAT THE OTHER WAS JESUS. You are just supposed to "***ume" that.

WHY SHOULD we? GOD never said He met joe in the woods. . .

Nonsense... In the very first version he stated, "...and I saw the Lord..."

You really need to step up your game with this AntiMormon rhetoric of yours, or you should get another hobby.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Nonsense... In the very first version he stated, "...and I saw the Lord..."

You really need to step up your game with this AntiMormon rhetoric of yours, or you should get another hobby.

So smith too ***UMED it was God? WHERE DID THAT 'PERSONAGE' CLAIM to be god?

Try again. . .

[Christian]

Still nobody CLAIMING TO BE GOD in smith's fabricated first vision tales.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

Still nobody CLAIMING TO BE GOD in smith's fabricated first vision tales.

Please explain the meaning of "The Lord" for us?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Please explain the meaning of "The Lord" for us?

You missed the point entirely. THE ENTETIE(S) (depending upon which 'first vision' account you are reading) did not describe themselves as God ANYWHERE. That does NOT preclude joey smith from CLAIMING they/it were angels or gods. Smith could (and DID) CLAIM lots of things that were not true.

But so you won't feel bad, here is what the word "LORD" means (taken from Matt 22:27)

kurios (koo'-ree-os); from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful ***le):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Smith changed his 1st vision story several times to fit his immediate needs. His CLAIMS simply matched whatever was expedient for him.

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

You missed the point entirely. THE ENTETIE(S) (depending upon which 'first vision' account you are reading) did not describe themselves as God ANYWHERE. That does NOT preclude joey smith from CLAIMING they/it were angels or gods. Smith could (and DID) CLAIM lots of things that were not true.

But so you won't feel bad, here is what the word "LORD" means (taken from Matt 22:27)

kurios (koo'-ree-os); from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful ***le):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Smith changed his 1st vision story several times to fit his immediate needs. His CLAIMS simply matched whatever was expedient for him.

Listen, your thread has been totally debunked... You are just embarr***ing yourself at this point.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
You missed the point entirely. THE ENTETIE(S) (depending upon which 'first vision' account you are reading) did not describe themselves as God ANYWHERE. That does NOT preclude joey smith from CLAIMING they/it were angels or gods. Smith could (and DID) CLAIM lots of things that were not true.

But so you won't feel bad, here is what the word "LORD" means (taken from Matt 22:27)

kurios (koo'-ree-os); from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful ***le):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Smith changed his 1st vision story several times to fit his immediate needs. His CLAIMS simply matched whatever was expedient for him.

Listen, your thread has been totally debunked... You are just embarr***ing yourself at this point.

Not yet it hasn't. Just because YOU say it has does not make it reality either. So you can yell as loud as you wish; I won't HEAR you OR 'listen' to you.

Do you NOT like the word "LORD" as it is used in Matthew 22:27 and elswhere throughout the New Testament of the BIBLE?

BTW I'm curious; WHICH ONE of joe smith's 'first vision' accounts is the REAL ONE, btw?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
You missed the point entirely. THE ENTETIE(S) (depending upon which 'first vision' account you are reading) did not describe themselves as God ANYWHERE. That does NOT preclude joey smith from CLAIMING they/it were angels or gods. Smith could (and DID) CLAIM lots of things that were not true.

But so you won't feel bad, here is what the word "LORD" means (taken from Matt 22:27)

kurios (koo'-ree-os); from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful ***le):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Smith changed his 1st vision story several times to fit his immediate needs. His CLAIMS simply matched whatever was expedient for him.

Listen, your thread has been totally debunked... You are just embarr***ing yourself at this point.

Not yet it hasn't. Just because YOU say it has does not make it reality either. So you can yell as loud as you wish; I won't HEAR you OR 'listen' to you.

Do you NOT like the word "LORD" as it is used in Matthew 22:27 and elswhere throughout the New Testament of the BIBLE?

BTW I'm curious; WHICH ONE of joe smith's 'first vision' accounts is the REAL ONE, btw?

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
You missed the point entirely. THE ENTETIE(S) (depending upon which 'first vision' account you are reading) did not describe themselves as God ANYWHERE. That does NOT preclude joey smith from CLAIMING they/it were angels or gods. Smith could (and DID) CLAIM lots of things that were not true.

But so you won't feel bad, here is what the word "LORD" means (taken from Matt 22:27)

kurios (koo'-ree-os); from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful ***le):

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Smith changed his 1st vision story several times to fit his immediate needs. His CLAIMS simply matched whatever was expedient for him.

Listen, your thread has been totally debunked... You are just embarr***ing yourself at this point.

Not yet it hasn't. Just because YOU say it has does not make it reality either. So you can yell as loud as you wish; I won't HEAR you OR 'listen' to you.

Do you NOT like the word "LORD" as it is used in Matthew 22:27 and elswhere throughout the New Testament of the BIBLE?

BTW I'm curious; WHICH ONE of joe smith's 'first vision' accounts is the REAL ONE, btw?

[Christian]

Having difficulties with an unresponsive website. . .now it is repeating my posts.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Please explain the meaning of "The Lord" for us?

SHOW US WHERE in any of smiths 5 first vision accounts ANY OF THE BEINGS claimed TO BE GOD OR JESUS. So far you have been pathetically unable to do so. I WONDER WHY?!

It doesn't matter whether joe said he saw "the lord" or not, in his accounting of WHAT he saw, they NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD OR JESUS. If smith ***umed that was who or what they were, who cares. THEY didn't claim to be God or Jesus.

So why should we believe joey smith saw ANYTHING in any grove? He was well-known for being a liar and a scoundrel.

And later he slept around with the wives of other men and young girls, quite obviously to the dismay of Emma Smith, his REAL wife. . .

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

SHOW US WHERE in any of smiths 5 first vision accounts ANY OF THE BEINGS claimed TO BE GOD OR JESUS. So far you have been pathetically unable to do so. I WONDER WHY?!

It doesn't matter whether joe said he saw "the lord" or not, in his accounting of WHAT he saw, they NEVER CLAIMED TO BE GOD OR JESUS. If smith ***umed that was who or what they were, who cares. THEY didn't claim to be God or Jesus.

So why should we believe joey smith saw ANYTHING in any grove?

I take it then that you do not believe that "The Lord" is Jesus or God???

LOL... that being the case, you have a bigger problem with Orthodox Christianity, than you do with the LDS.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

I take it then that you do not believe that "The Lord" is Jesus or God???

LOL... that being the case, you have a bigger problem with Orthodox Christianity, than you do with the LDS.

YOU will take ANYTHING you can make up for yourself to tell yourself that joey smith was a real prophet, wouldn't you?

Joey smith said he saw the lord. NEITHER OF THE EN***IES SAID THEY WERE GOD OR JESUS CHRIST in ANY of his 5 first vision versions.

There are MANY you might call "lords." Members of the English Parliament come to mind. Human kings. Satan might be SMITH'S lord.

The TRUTH remains that NONE OF THE EN***IES joey smith claimed to have seen in the grove CLAIMED TO BE GOD. So far all you have done is come up with EXCUSES for why not.

Apparently that is all you have. It figures. . .

[theway]

Originally Posted by Christian

YOU will take ANYTHING you can make up for yourself to tell yourself that joey smith was a real prophet, wouldn't you?

Joey smith said he saw the lord. NEITHER OF THE EN***IES SAID THEY WERE GOD OR JESUS CHRIST in ANY of his 5 first vision versions.

There are MANY you might call "lords." Members of the English Parliament come to mind. Human kings. Satan might be SMITH'S lord.

The TRUTH remains that NONE OF THE EN***IES joey smith claimed to have seen in the grove CLAIMED TO BE GOD. So far all you have done is come up with EXCUSES for why not.
u
Apparently that is all you have. It figures. . .

LOL... Really???

So in order to saved your failed thread and not have to admit you were wrong; you would actually go as far as to tell people that you believe that Joseph was saying that he was visited in the grove by Satan disguised as an English Parliament Member???

LOL...REALLY?? Are you really this desperate.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]

YOU will take ANYTHING you can make up for yourself to tell yourself that joey smith was a real prophet, wouldn't you?

Joey smith said he saw the lord. NEITHER OF THE EN***IES SAID THEY WERE GOD OR JESUS CHRIST in ANY of his 5 first vision versions.

There are MANY you might call "lords." Members of the English Parliament come to mind. Human kings. Satan might be SMITH'S lord.

The TRUTH remains that NONE OF THE EN***IES joey smith claimed to have seen in the grove CLAIMED TO BE GOD. So far all you have done is come up with EXCUSES for why not.

Apparently that is all you have. It figures. . .

LOL... Really???


So in order to saved your failed thread and not have to admit you were wrong; you would actually go as far as to tell people that you believe that Joseph was saying that he was visited in the grove by Satan disguised as an English Parliament Member???

LOL...REALLY?? Are you really this desperate.

Yes, REALLY. Thee is nothing 'desperate' about pointing out that joey smith either lied and saw nothing, or that he was visited by 1 or 2 (depending on your choice of "first vision" accounts) en***ies that did NOT REFER TO THEMSELVES AS GOD OR JESUS CHRIST. Not one of his accounts claim they ever did.

Now if he ***UMED that is who they were, SATAN comes disguised as an angel of light. . .

Too bad, but you have NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. Either joe lied, or he ***UMED something not in evidence. You can't get around that.

[MickeyS]

Christian said

"Too bad, but you have NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. Either joe lied, or he ***UMED something not in evidence. You can't get around that."

Just like you have NO EVIDENCE that Joseph Smith DIDN'T see God in the grove. If you expect others to follow a standard, you really should follow the same. Due to that, this is another failed thread, since you come out of the gate with speculation and demand proof. If you can't provide proof, your speculation is worthless, correct? That's what you keep telling us.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Christian said

"Too bad, but you have NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. Either joe lied, or he ***UMED something not in evidence. You can't get around that."

Just like you have NO EVIDENCE that Joseph Smith DIDN'T see God in the grove. If you expect others to follow a standard, you really should follow the same. Due to that, this is another failed thread, since you come out of the gate with speculation and demand proof. If you can't provide proof, your speculation is worthless, correct? That's what you keep telling us.

Joey smith made the CLAIM that he saw 'the lord' in the grove. It is up to HIS MADE UP RELIGION to prove his case.

Run, Mickey, RUN!

YOU have no evidence that joe smith wasn't naked in that grove, with someone else's wife either. You can't provide any proof he wasn't. Of course your argument is an argument from absence.

If you can't find God and/or Jesus in the grove, I understand. . .your cult leader likely just plain lied.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Christian

Joey smith made the CLAIM that he saw 'the lord' in the grove. It is up to HIS MADE UP RELIGION to prove his case.

Run, Mickey, RUN!

YOU have no evidence that joe smith wasn't naked in that grove, with someone else's wife either. You can't provide any proof he wasn't. Of course your argument is an argument from absence.

If you can't find God and/or Jesus in the grove, I understand. . .your cult leader likely just plain lied.

What evidence did Moses have of the burning bush? By your standard we would need actual physical evidence to believe that. By the standard you just set, you cannot believe anytime Moses spoke to God because he was by himself. You're setting yourself up to admitting to not believing prophets who have spoken to God without "proof"

Again if you're going to set a standard by which others have to follow in order to be "valid", you have to apply that standard throughout or your OP is not valid.

[Christian]

minnie posted:

What evidence did Moses have of the burning bush? By your standard we would need actual physical evidence to believe that. By the standard you just set, you cannot believe anytime Moses spoke to God because he was by himself. You're setting yourself up to admitting to not believing prophets who have spoken to God without "proof"

When joey smith demonstrates that He WAS a prophet by smacking a stick into a rock and producing water, or parting a large body of water, THEN we will believe him.

Again if you're going to set a standard by which others have to follow in order to be "valid", you have to apply that standard throughout or your OP is not valid.

Joey the adulterer smith was not a prophet of God. UNLESS you can show that he was, you have nothing. God does NOT instruct men to have sex with the wives of other men. He does NOT condone adultery.

But smith did.
​You are STUCK with that Truth. Sorry about that, but your 'prophet' was a letch!