Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Baptism in the Holy Spirit part 1

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default Baptism in the Holy Spirit part 1

    In order to have the proper perspective of baptism with the Holy Spirit we need to know what a baptism is.

    “Baptism; Religious rite of immersing in or sprinkling with water in sign of admission to Christian Church. Usually with name giving”. (Oxford Dictionary)

    Unfortunately the English term, as indicated in the Oxford Dictionary definition, has taken on a religious implication, and detracts from the actual meaning. The scriptures were written in Greek and the Greek word has no religious connotation to it.

    Baptisma {bap'-tis-mah}- Baptism 1) Immersion, submersion 1a) of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed)

    Baptizo {bap-tid'-zo}1) To dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk) 2) To cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe 3) To overwhelm

    The term has to be used as the Greek intended it or we are not being true to the definition. Baptism simply stated is immersion into an element.

    If you look carefully at the following description of baptism you will notice that there is not any baptism for unbelievers. All that are baptized are believers (Christians) with the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

    What is needed to carry out a baptism?

    1. A candidate... One being baptized
    2. An agent... One to do the baptizing
    3. An element... In or with what the candidate is to be baptized.

    To keep this simple; a baptism occurs when a candidate is immersed into an element by an agent.

    The Bible speaks of several baptisms, but our focus will be only on the three baptisms that the Christian mostly hears about: baptism with water, baptism into Christ and baptism with the Holy Spirit.

    The first baptism to be dealt with is water baptism. Water baptism is of this world, worldly and is but a shadow of the real baptisms that are spiritual in nature. This baptism is the only baptism that we can observe the element, agent and candidate with our physical sight. (A picture is worth a thousand words.) When we see this occurring then we can transpose the candidate, agent and element to the other baptisms and in effect look into the spiritual realm and observe baptism into Christ and baptism with the Holy Spirit.

    Baptism With Water:

    Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

    Candidate... One being baptized.... Eunuch (Believer).
    Agent... One to do the baptizing.... Philip
    Element... In what the candidate is to be baptized.... Water.

    Baptism into One Body (Christ):

    I Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Candidate... One being baptized.... We (Believers).
    Agent... One to do the baptizing.... Spirit
    Element... In what the candidate is to be baptized.... One Body. (The body of Christ)

    The Holy Spirit baptizes the believer into Christ or into his body at repentance and the new birth.

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Baptism With The Holy Spirit:

    Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire

    Act 1:4-5, 8. Acts 1:4 And being ***embled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 8 But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Candidate... One being baptized.... Them (Believers).
    Agent... One to do the baptizing.... Jesus (he that cometh after me)
    Element... In what the candidate is to be baptized.... Holy Ghost.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default D e l e t e d

    D E L E T E D by Saxon
    Last edited by Saxon; 12-29-2015 at 09:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default Baptism in the Holy Spirit part 2

    Baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT the same as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling is internal and the baptism is a coming upon, or external. This can be seen in water baptism, the water is upon you, not in you.

    John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were ***embled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you.
    John 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
    John 20:21 Then said Jesus unto them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
    John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
    John 20:23 Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    At this gathering we have the disciples ***embled. The disciples included the eleven (Thomas was missing). This is basically the 120, the charter members of the Christian church. This is a very important ***embly that is mostly overlooked as a meeting of cowards Jesus came to give a pep talk so they would hang around for another fifty days. This meeting was much more than a pep rally! This relatively quiet gathering was the indwelling by the Holy Spirit of all the disciples, in fact the birth of the Christian Church.

    As human beings we always expect to have great fanfare with pomp and ceremony to announce such an important event. This event of Jesus breathing life into the church was as quiet as when he knelt down over a lump of mud in a misty garden and breathed life into Adam.

    The reason that the Holy Spirit was not given to the disciples earlier is because, according to John 7:39, Jesus was not glorified. The events that are described just before John 20:19 indicate that Jesus was on his way to the Father. Jesus returned the same evening glorified and with authority, authorizing the disciples to remit and retain sins. The Holy Spirit was ready to dwell in any one that would believe and be saved.

    The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the promise of the Father, for all believers, to receive power to be witnesses.

    John baptized with water but Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Mat 3:11). This is the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4). The purpose of this baptism is to receive power to be witnesses of the resurrected Christ. This is not to be confused with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at salvation. This is a totally different event. (See John 20:21–23)

    Whom is the promise intended for? Anyone that is a true believer is able to receive the promise.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

    Acts 2:38 is one of those verses that can generate controversy and seem to say different things to different people, depending on what a person thinks of the relationship between salvation and water baptism. Some insist that you need to be baptized in water in order to be saved, while others do not. Those that believe in baptismal regeneration say Acts 2:38 is saying, “be baptized to have your sins remitted”. Those that say baptism comes after salvation say Acts 2:38 is saying. “Be baptized because your sins have been remitted.” A wanted poster from the old west says, “Jesse James wanted for train robbery”. Does this say Jesse James is wanted to commit a train robbery, or Jesse James is wanted because he has committed a train robbery? In the context of history, we know Jesse James is wanted because he has committed a train robbery. I am writing this believing that the context of the Bible is that water baptism comes after salvation occurs.

    At repentance a person has turned from sin and towards God. This is salvation. Repent, (get saved) and be baptized in water, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ because of the remission of sins.

    At salvation, the Holy Spirit immerses (baptizes) the new believer into the body of Christ and indwells the believer. All the sins that one has committed have been forgiven. The second half of verse 38 refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:39 now tells us who is to receive the promise (Acts 1:4). To me, this says that anyone that is a true believer is capable and is able, from God’s point of view, to receive the promise. Jesus commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father. (Acts 1:4)

    Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

    This says that they were ALL there. Acts 1:15 states that there were about 120 believers. They all, not just the apostles, were there and they all received the same “promise”, with the same results. Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    I do believe that the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Initial does not mean only. Some people do miss out on speaking in tongues because they falsely believe that it will come pouring out of them automatically, without any effort of their own. In some it does seem to happen that way but this is because some are more responsive than others. In those of us that are a bit slower on the up take, it should be remembered that they, the person baptized in the Holy Spirit, began to speak as the Spirit gave them the utterance. The Spirit tells you what to say and the individual has to do the speaking. (See Acts 2:4)
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  4. #4
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Hello Sax!

    Good work, and possibly I missed it, for though you have set in place the particular applications of Baptism, could you tie them together such as we see here in Ephesians?

    "...one Lord, one faith, one baptism..." (Eph 4:5)

    Mike.
    .

  5. #5
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    I think there are about 7 different "baptisms" talked about in the Bible...

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    There are about 7 baptisms that the Bible mentions one way or another, this I am aware of that is why I stated in Part 1 "The Bible speaks of several baptisms, but our focus will be only on the three baptisms that the Christian mostly hears about: baptism with water, baptism into Christ and baptism with the Holy Spirit."
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    Hello Sax!

    Good work, and possibly I missed it, for though you have set in place the particular applications of Baptism, could you tie them together such as we see here in Ephesians?

    "...one Lord, one faith, one baptism..." (Eph 4:5)

    Mike.
    What I hoped would be noticed is that there are three different baptisms mentioned for the candidate, water, the one body and with the Holy Spirit. Each baptism has a different agent baptizing. Water baptism, a Christian human, baptism into the one body, the Holy Spirit and baptism with the Holy Spirit, Jesus.


    Ephesians 4:5 is speaking of unity. Unity is in one Lord, one faith and one baptism. The one baptism for unity is baptism into the one body, the body of Christ. This brings the saved into Christ. Being in Christ brings unity. (See Galatians 3:28)



    Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
    Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
    Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
    Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  8. #8
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Ephesians 4:5 is speaking of unity. Unity is in one Lord, one faith and one baptism. The one baptism for unity is baptism into the one body, the body of Christ. This brings the saved into Christ. Being in Christ brings unity. (See Galatians 3:28)

    Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
    Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
    Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
    Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    Yes, just as so many, I’m seeing 7.

    Understanding your intent to remain focused, yet not clear on this, is it simply the plural of baptism or one baptism over all, or needless concern? I could see unity in all. No challenge there, I too believe it is discussing unity, but have thought what if there in the word had it not been included? It would have not diminished that attention to unity. Resting on the Spirit's reasoning within causes me to ***ume it as plural as a tree in bloom rather than with (many) blossoms still speaks of the unity of the flower.

    That last line there in your original post referring to the Holy Ghost as an element of “what” wouldn’t be my first choice, I have not looked into that either. If the purer texts reveals differently then so be it. Thanks!

    Mike.
    .

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    Yes, just as so many, I’m seeing 7.

    Understanding your intent to remain focused, yet not clear on this, is it simply the plural of baptism or one baptism over all, or needless concern? I could see unity in all. No challenge there, I too believe it is discussing unity, but have thought what if there in the word had it not been included? It would have not diminished that attention to unity. Resting on the Spirit's reasoning within causes me to ***ume it as plural as a tree in bloom rather than with (many) blossoms still speaks of the unity of the flower.

    That last line there in your original post referring to the Holy Ghost as an element of “what” wouldn’t be my first choice, I have not looked into that either. If the purer texts reveals differently then so be it. Thanks!

    Mike.
    As I said there are THREE baptisms mentioned that a Christian most commonly hears about and in some circles experience. The three baptisms have three different agents and three different elements.

    What is needed to carry out a baptism?

    1. A candidate... One being baptized
    2. An agent... One to do the baptizing
    3. An element... In or with what the candidate is to be baptized.

    To keep this simple; a baptism occurs when a candidate is immersed into an element by an agent.

    Baptism With The Holy Spirit:

    Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire

    Act 1:4-5, 8. Acts 1:4 And being ***embled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 8 But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Candidate... One being baptized.... Them (Believers).
    Agent... One to do the baptizing.... Jesus (he that cometh after me)
    Element... In what the candidate is to be baptized.... Holy Ghost.

    The element that is the Holy Spirit is what Jesus uses to baptize with, as water is the element that John the Baptist used to baptize with.

    What is this “purer text” you refer to?
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  10. #10
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    What is this “purer text” you refer to?
    Well sir, inasmuch as you too like to stay abreast in the Greek, I’m surprised you haven’t come to hear or realize for yourself the sub-par performance of the English in comparison to the Greek, often, making it, the Greek, a purer text.

    My purpose expressed was drawing on the possibility of diminishing the glory and correct ***le of He, the Holy Ghost. Such a subs***ution could be used as person for “element”, and whom for “what” in your OP.

    The mechanics of “element” were fine with me till I see it being aligned with God. But, if the word’s Greek reveals this same generalization, then so would I be fine with it.

    I’ll save my concerns over the specifics of the Eph. treatment for another time, thanks anyway.

    Mike.
    .

  11. #11
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default




    The only requirement for your baptism is a repentant heart...

  12. #12
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post



    The only requirement for your baptism is a repentant heart...
    Are there some here on this site that would also respond to John much the same ?

    Mike.
    .

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire

    Act 1:4-5, 8. Acts 1:4 And being ***embled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 8 But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Let me Know where Matthew 3:11 and Acts 1:5 came from if not from the Greek text. I would be interested to know.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  14. #14
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire

    Act 1:4-5, 8. Acts 1:4 And being ***embled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 8 But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judaea and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Let me Know where Matthew 3:11 and Acts 1:5 came from if not from the Greek text. I would be interested to know.
    As would I. But where did we ever see water being affected to that which the Spirit is seen? If I’m reading your concern correctly, the Holy Spirit as agent is as close as it gets to being a person. He doesn’t have that capacity to be such, is this what you are describing?

    As we know, He, the Holy Ghost:

    approves of men,
    makes decisions,
    is quenched,
    provoked,
    offended
    grieved,
    teaches,
    judges,
    purges,
    is lied to,
    and invites,

    An effort to diminish His glory would be to treat Him as some type of conduit to the Father. Possibly, I have misread you.

    Mike.
    .

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    I don't think that you are seeing what I am saying at all. What do you not understand about the scriptural comparison of Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit the same as John the baptist baptizes with water? John immerses into water and Jesus immerses into the Holy Spirit. What do you find degrading about that?

    Also the Holy Spirit immerses into the one body, the body of Christ.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  16. #16
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    I dont understand what any of you are saying...

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    Why am I not surprised??
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  18. #18
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    I dont understand what any of you are saying...
    Hi,

    Well, take that last comment Saxon made there Alan, ,

    What do you not understand about the scriptural comparison of Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit the same as John the baptist baptizes with water? John immerses into water and Jesus immerses into the Holy Spirit.
    Now I'm guessing the very first time you read that, you instantly understood the comparison John himself drew. I did, didn't you?

    Mike.
    .

  19. #19
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    Hi,

    Well, take that last comment Saxon made there Alan, ,

    Now I'm guessing the very first time you read that, you instantly understood the comparison John himself drew. I did, didn't you?

    Mike.
    .
    perhaps if someone talked about what they have on their minds with a bit less symbolism....?

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    perhaps if someone talked about what they have on their minds with a bit less symbolism....?
    What symbolism?? I just quoted scripture.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  21. #21
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon View Post
    What symbolism?? I just quoted scripture.
    and as we all know, there is no symbolism in scripture...

  22. #22
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Notre Dame, IN
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    and as we all know, there is no symbolism in scripture...
    How then do you read some scripture? Some openly declares symbolism with the verbal use of “like” and “like unto”.

    Surely, you remember Moses using this to inform the people of he who was to come, He, the Christ?

    “For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall you hear in all things” (Acts 3:22)

    Mike.
    .

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    I have asked you to show me the symbolism that I have used. Can you do that?
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

  24. #24
    alanmolstad
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    [FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4]How then do you read some scripture? ]
    Im just pointing out that I dont really get what a lot of you, or any of you, are talking about.

    So I was just suggesting that people give up the use of symbolic wordings, (or the use if simply quoting the Bible), and just state simply and clearly what they wanted to say...

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Halifax Nova Scotia
    Posts
    695

    Default

    Again, show me the symbolic statements that are being used.
    Be ready to pray, preach or die at a moments notice

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •