still no mormon 'authority.'

[MickeyS]

Especially since Christian can call people "retarded" and constantly refer to them by names other than their username. More broken "rules"

Do your "rules" ONLY apply to Mormons? If so, you really just need to be honest about that and state such, or remove those other "rules" completely. How is anyone supposed to follow one rule when they repeatedly witness everyone breaking all the others? Just be honest.

I am dying to know, since your "moderator" has never once given me a straight answer

[alanmolstad]

Did Mormon Founder Joseph Smith Suffer From Sexual Addiction?



That is a good question...





Here is a link to some information on the topic -
http://clindquist-rudeawakening.blog...smith-sex.html



I quote what is written there:
" But the more I read in the course of my research, the more repugnant became the whole Mormon scheme of 'celestial marriage', 'spiritual wives', 'plural wives'.
And no matter how it was eventually justified by the Mormon Church, it seemed to me that Mormon polygamy was really just another example of that familiar, age-old, male behavior.

Nothing more, nothing less.

So who was responsible for initiating this morally repugant and unchristian sexual behavior in Mormonism?

All of the recent historical accounts (Mormon and non-Mormon) point clearly to none other than Joseph Smith himself."

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Thanks Jill !

Now where was I?
Oh yes -

What does this have to do with this discussion and the SEX doctrine you are both claiming is taught?

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Thanks Jill !

Now where was I?
Oh yes -

What does this have to do with this discussion and the SEX doctrine you are both claiming is taught?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

What does this have to do with this discussion and the SEX doctrine you are both claiming is taught?

Mickey,


In the video Walter Martin talks about "authority" in connection with the Mormons...

Perhaps you might enjoy watching the video and picking up a few tips from Walter on how to spot fake authority from real authority....

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mickey,


In the video Walter Martin talks about "authority" in connection with the Mormons...

Perhaps you might enjoy watching the video and picking up a few tips from Walter on how to spot fake authority from real authority....

Yes the OP is about priesthood authority. But YOU Alan were talking about SEX, and Jill was backing up your SEX doctrine claim. You were responding to Jills comment about me reacting to your accusation that my husband is a SEX fiend, that you know he joined the church only because he wanted to have SEX. So I will ask you again, what does this vid I have to with what Jill said to me?

But to address your video, with all due respect, Walter Martin never spoke directly with God, so he can't tell God that He is not allowed to add to or clarify His Word. So, what Walter is talking about is his opinion and belief, and he's completely en***led to it, as I am en***led to disagree with it.

Please direct me to scripture that states that God will NEVER speak to man again.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

LOL! And I bet you can't figure out why no one takes you seriously.

You can't address the rest of my post intelligently, can you? You have been shown to be responding on the level of 'No you didn't. . .yes you did. . .no you didn't,' but you cannot address the fact that your religion has no authority from God or any authority over anyone but YOUR OWN CULT.

So you attack me personally instead, and run away. . .

It figures. . .if that is the best you can do, it is the best you can do.

[alanmolstad]

Now as Walter shows usin the video I posted...Mormons do not trust the Bible ,rather they have other works that the edit their faith to agree with.
this is seen in the following inview:

Ankerberg: Alright, let’s jump to another group and that is the Latter-day Saints, the Mormons in Salt Lake City. Now, I’ve talked with them here on the program as well as on airplanes and in airports and at universities and so on. They will start out and say, “Well, yes, we agree with the Bible.” But then they have a few other books that they throw in too. Would you comment on that?

Martin: Well, Mormonism says, “The Bible is the Word of God insofar as it is correctly translated.” Now, that means that wherever the Bible contradicts Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, or the Book of Mormon – their three sacred books – the Bible is no longer the authority. They and their general authorities are the authority. So when you are dealing with Mormonism, that’s exactly what you’re going to run up against.

....the interview goes on....


Ankerberg: Okay. Do those books ever contradict outright a statement in Scripture? Give me an example.

Martin: Oh, yes. For instance, the Bible says there is only one God. In fact, Jesus Christ said, “The greatest of all commandments is there is only one God. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.” [Mark 12:29] And the Mormons say, “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become,” which means that you can become a god through the priesthood of the Mormon Church, just as much of a god as Jesus or His Father. So they are polytheists.




So now as for how to know if the book of Mormon has real authority or not?


Ankerberg: Okay, what do you do when they say, “Now, if you really want to know the truth, what you have to do is you’ve got to go pray about it”?

Martin: Well, you don’t have to go and pray about something God has specifically said. For instance, God said, “Thou shalt not steal.” [Ex. 20:15] Now, it’s ludicrous when you have an opportunity to steal something to bow your head and say, “I’ve got to pray about it.” You know automatically God said it. So when the Mormons say, “Pray about the Book of Mormon,” you don’t have to pray about the Book of Mormon. All you have to do is take God’s Word, compare it to the Book of Mormon and Mormon theology, and God has spoken. You reject it.







So we are to judge anything anyone say, by the Word Of God....

No matter who is speaking....

No matter who they appear to be, or who they claim to be.
We are to take what they say and judge it by the Word of God....

For the Word is the authority.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by christien

You can't address the rest of my post intelligently, can you?

I'll try...

You're behaving like a retarded child!

How'd I do?

[MickeyS]

Yes, I watched the video. I understand how the concept works, that's how I know how to judge Walter Martin's words, because they contradict God's.

You know how many interpretations there are of The Bible? How they differ from translation to translation, and how even "Christians" can't agree on EVERY single bit of it? Even though they are supposedly just translations, the meaning of many things change between each version. Like how the NIV of the Bible appears to show that God agrees with abortion and doesn't value the unborn as highly as His other children, when the KJV clearly shows different.

There was so much confusion about the Bible immediately after the Apostles died, that the early church fathers and politicians of the time had to hold councils to determine which interpretation was right, and MAN decided what the "correct" doctrine would be.

Why the confusion? Because God was no longer speaking directly to His servants. There were no prophets, there were no revelators. MAN decided on the nature of God from the philosophies of MAN mingled with scripture. And they came up with a definition that they decided fit what they think God should be. In other words, they put Him in the "God box" like you do. Now when God comes around and corrects that, we really should be listening. That's why I know that in the end, Walter Mattin has no authority to decide what God wants, since He has never spoken to Him. I understand you all follow the teachings of what MEN decided the Bible was saying, and that's your right to that belief, but I rely on God. And that's my belief.

It's okay Alan, if you don't understand it, I promise, it is going to be revealed to you. That's why I'm not worried about that day when it comes, because although I'm far from knowing everything, I've got the basics as they were revealed directly from God.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Yes, I watched the video..

a story:


A long time ago 2 guys stopped at my house to talk about their heavenly father...

After a while I asked a few questions, and learned that I had some fun things in common with one of the guys....so i invited just him to drop by the next week.

I had my doubts, but darned if he did not show up with his wife who sat in the car while the guy and I had a nice conversation.
We talked a few times after that, when i suggested that i go to "his" house next time....

he was very shocked....

Turns out that in all his travels and all his door-to-door stops, that I was the first person that ask to go to his house next time.

So the next time I show up at his house and I have a folder of handouts and photo copies of the history of his religion.

he does not have time to look at them, so we just talk.
next week the same thing, I show up with a whole set of new photocopies for him, and he just shoves them off to the side and we talk.

thats about the last time i saw him...
Oh except for one other time, when i saw him and his family getting baptized at my church.
I had lost track of him, when suddenly there he was getting baptized?

So naturally I wanted to take "CREDIT" for his salvation, so I went up to him later and asked him what opened his eyes to the Truth?
(I expected to hear that it was some type of flawless argument i had used )


But....

it turns out....


My efforts were a moot point.

it turns out that after I left him after our meeting, his daughter and son-in-law would drop by and go over all the photocopies that i had dropped of..

They went over every reference the photocopies to make sure they were correct?.....they went over each bible verse that i guess was listed on the footnotes of the photocopies....

They went over everything....

To tell the truth, I simply hit "PRINT" to a lot of that stuff I had dropped off with him..I really have no clue what some of it was about?


anyway. turns out that in the action of researching my photocopies, that the guy came to see the truth....



thus.....for all my efforts..for all my work,,,for all my late nights in researching and practicing how to say things during out meetings....all that stuff was a moot point.


In the vast plan of God to save this man and his family, my part was that i was the guy who had a finger and hit "PRINT"...........





from this I have learned to not worry too much if I don't see results with my eyes from all my work and study to help people see the truth.

last time this happened all I did was hit "print"....

God has his own plan and Im just happy it was me he picked to be a small part of his plan.

[MickeyS]

That's a sad story Alan...you just don't realize what side you're really working for. So, I'm not sure what any of that means except that people are gullible and will believe anything if they aren't close enough to their Heavenly Father.

Especially with the Internet which gives people the power to hide behind anonymity and lie about the things they say simply because of their personal feelings about a person or belief, and as long as it leads others to feel that bitterness and contempt, they will say anything and attempt to convince themselves that they're doing it for the "right" reasons. And then congratulate them selves when they've accomplished making another person feel that loathing as well. They will actually feel good about themselves for causing others to feel bitterness and hate.

Either way, it isn't the Holy Spirit that's guiding these people, it's HATE. Nobody should be converted because of HATE.

I have many stories about converts who have come from "Christian" religions but felt there was always something missing or that so much doctrine was incomplete or made no sense. It was like...it's almost there, but they just don't feel that they are receiving a fullness of the gospel.

Then they visit with a member or the missionaries and are introduced to true doctrine and they're like "OH...this is EXACTLY what was missing" and it all falls into place. A very large number of members in my ward down here in the South have had these conversion experiences and they are very strong members of the Gospel and amazing people.

And the best part is, these experiences are built upon LOVE and joy, not bitterness, hate and prejudice. Not a common enemy, but a common love, a love for the Savior.

Gods true doctrine focuses on what will lead us to develop joy and to progress towards being better people for ourselves, our families, and our fellow man. Not to get stuck in a rut of doubts and contempt that lead to a life of focusing on the tearing down of others.

The Gospel is about being uplifted and edified. I see absolutely none of that here. In my experience with this site and this forum, this entire "ministry" seems to only focus on the hate of others. I'm not saying that because you disagree with me, I don't believe that everyone who disagrees with me is filled with hate, but I have yet to see any efforts of "conversion" here.

It truly just feels like a place people come to feel superior to others in their beliefs. To feel satisfaction in taunts and mockery. It's just what I have observed. It doesn't feel like it's inspired by The Spirit at all, and if I didn't already have a strong testimony of Christ, I would likely come away with a very low opinion of "Christians" That's the conclusion I have come to anyway.

But I do agree with you, I don't need to see results of any opportunities I have to share the Gospel, it's not about "keeping score" As long as you are sincere in your testimony and have the Spirit with you to guide you and strive to exemplify Christlike attributes. I know I fall short of being Christlike when pride gets in the way (I am well aware of when I fall short, especially here in this forum), and I'm always trying to keep myself in check and remember that it's more important to be true than to be "right".

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

I'll try...

You're behaving like a retarded child!

How'd I do?

Am I supposed to be IMPRESSED with your ignorance? I notice you didn't address even ONE issue of the rest of the post.
I am underwhelmed.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by christien

Am I supposed to be IMPRESSED with your ignorance?

Am I supposed to be impressed with yours?

I notice you didn't address even ONE issue of the rest of the post.

No need. At that point, you lost.

[Christian]

Still no 'authority' by mormons over anyone but their own huddle. No evidence of any 'authority' from God for them either.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

OK... So this guy and his family became Mormon.... What's the big deal, that happens all the time.

Sorry way, but you mis-read his post. The guy and his family became CHRISTIANS and joined a DIFFERENT church. They clearly LEFT the mormon cult.

Perhaps you should re-read the post.

No big deal, folks leave the mormon religious cult to join the body of JESUS CHRIST instead all the time. . .

My neighbors and their family left the mormon religious cult. When they did, her bishop told her she should divorce her husband and take the kids. . .then he cussed her out when she wouldn't.

[Christian]

some way posted:

No... Let's look at the facts...
First, he said that 2 guys showed up at his door, and then one returned with his wife in the car.
This couldn't possibly be Mormon missionaries and have both a companion and a wife, nor could it even be home teachers of our church. Most likely they were Johovah Witnesses that came to the door.

Not necessarily so. I have met older mormon missionaries who were married, yet went with younger folks with them.

Second, he said he saw them being baptized at his church building. Now that rules out most Protestant Churches, as they no longer do baptisms.

What planet are YOU from? Virtually ALL Christian churches baptize. Your theory that we don't do baptisms is completely off the wall wrong; it shows the ignorance of your religion about True Christianity.

Note also, he stated that he viewed him as saved at the time of his baptism... That definitely rules out all Evangelicals and Calvinists, and any other faith Aloners.

In other words, you haven't a CLUE what you are talking about.

The clincher that they were converted to the Mormon Church, is when he stated that he xeroxed "the Truth" and gave it to him... Now we all know that the truth only exists in one Church... The Mormon Church.

More ignorance of the truth by you. The mormon religion is a heathen cult, nothing more. No Truth there.

Why you even backed that up by saying they became Christians... Well, you couldn't get any more Christian than Mormon.

Only mormon cultists would believe that. No REAL Christians believe that. Once again you speak from ignorance.

Basically, this smells of a trap by Alan, he wanted us to criticize the story so they he could come back with "see I proved my point that all you guys do is contradict me no matter what I say, because these guys really converted to Mormonism"
Alan's mad because I sprung his little trap.

I really doubt Alan's mad at all. ALL YOU HAVE DONE is show your ignorance of evangelical Christianity.

But then, what makes you think it was any different?

The total ignorance of your post. Your totally FALSE ***UMPTIONS.

Nope sorry... You took you little made-up too far. I have absolutely no problem calling this an outright lie...
Bishops are told to counsel couples to stay together no matter what.. Unless there was physical abuse.

Not what my next-door neighbor saw when she (a sixth generation mormon) told her bishop they were leaving the mormon religion to become Christians instead. He told her to divorce her husband and leave with the kids. When her husband saw her tears he took the phone from her. The bishop was cussing her out because she had refused.

Next time, if you want someone to believe you, you should bring your story down to reality a little.

Reality is what I have told you. I will not change it to cover up the foibles of your religious cult. Only YOU can do that.

And calling me a liar doesn't change the TRUTH of what I said. It only shows you for what you are.

AND STILL NO AUTHORITY FOR THE MORMONS FROM GOD!

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Am I supposed to be impressed with yours?

I notice you didn't address even ONE issue of the rest of the post.

No need. At that point, you lost.

Your ignorance is showing. . .

[Christian]

Originally Posted by theway

Yes... You lost this argument a long time ago Christian when I pointed out that you misused and misinterpreted a scripture you were try to use to prove your point.
But then, you already knew it wouldn't work because you tried this over at CARM and they pointed out the same flaws in your logic.

Isn't that right, Morefish?

EXACTLY WHAT scripture did I misuse or misinterpret here or anywhere poddledoo? So far you have not found any scripture I have done either with. All you have done here is make false CLAIMS that I did that.

[Christian]

wrong way posted:

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
some way posted:

No... Let's look at the facts...
First, he said that 2 guys showed up at his door, and then one returned with his wife in the car.
This couldn't possibly be Mormon missionaries and have both a companion and a wife, nor could it even be home teachers of our church. Most likely they were Johovah Witnesses that came to the door.

Not necessarily so. I have met older mormon missionaries who were married, yet went with younger folks with them.

Second, he said he saw them being baptized at his church building. Now that rules out most Protestant Churches, as they no longer do baptisms.

What planet are YOU from? Virtually ALL Christian churches baptize. Your theory that we don't do baptisms is completely off the wall wrong; it shows the ignorance of your religion about True Christianity.

Note also, he stated that he viewed him as saved at the time of his baptism... That definitely rules out all Evangelicals and Calvinists, and any other faith Aloners.

In other words, you haven't a CLUE what you are talking about.

The clincher that they were converted to the Mormon Church, is when he stated that he xeroxed "the Truth" and gave it to him... Now we all know that the truth only exists in one Church... The Mormon Church.

More ignorance of the truth by you. The mormon religion is a heathen cult, nothing more. No Truth there.

Why you even backed that up by saying they became Christians... Well, you couldn't get any more Christian than Mormon.

Only mormon cultists would believe that. No REAL Christians believe that. Once again you speak from ignorance.

Basically, this smells of a trap by Alan, he wanted us to criticize the story so they he could come back with "see I proved my point that all you guys do is contradict me no matter what I say, because these guys really converted to Mormonism"
Alan's mad because I sprung his little trap.

I really doubt Alan's mad at all. ALL YOU HAVE DONE is show your ignorance of evangelical Christianity.

But then, what makes you think it was any different?

The total ignorance of your post. Your totally FALSE ***UMPTIONS.

Nope sorry... You took you little made-up too far. I have absolutely no problem calling this an outright lie...
Bishops are told to counsel couples to stay together no matter what.. Unless there was physical abuse.

Not what my next-door neighbor saw when she (a sixth generation mormon) told her bishop they were leaving the mormon religion to become Christians instead. He told her to divorce her husband and leave with the kids. When her husband saw her tears he took the phone from her. The bishop was cussing her out because she had refused.

Next time, if you want someone to believe you, you should bring your story down to reality a little.

Reality is what I have told you. I will not change it to cover up the foibles of your religious cult. Only YOU can do that.

And calling me a liar doesn't change the TRUTH of what I said. It only shows you for what youare.

AND STILL NO AUTHORITY FOR THE MORMONS FROM GOD!

Please.... All you did was bring up more red flags about why your story is not to be believed.

Why should it not be believed? Because it is TRUE and you don't like it?

You stated that your neighbors BOTH decided to leave the LDS Church, and told the Bishop that on the phone.

They did and they did. First she did, then when her husband took the phone from his crying wife and heard the bishop cursing at her he did too.

First.... A Bishop would never have discussed such matters over the phone... And most likely not without them both there.

But the REALITY of the matter is that he did.


Second.... Why on earth would a Bishop tell her to divorce her husband if they were BOTH leaving??? What would that solve? That wouldn't bring her back to our Church if she had already decided to leave.

Because she had told her bishop that her husband had decided it, and she agreed with him.

You'd have to ask their cursing bishop why he did what he did.

You see, that's the problem with a lie; in order to make it work after your facts are questioned, you have to keep making up more lies to cover-up the first one.

And that is the problem with the TRUTH, YOU have to pretend it was a lie to keep from admitting that you have such bishops and such a phony religion.

Sorry wrongway, but your slander doesn't work for you. We weren't even talking about my neighbors and you have to try to run away from the TRUTH. . .

BTW the two who came to the door was NOT what I told you, but what someone else told you, that you tried to put your own 'spin' on there too!

Doing a lot of dodging and weaving lately, aren't you?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

wrong way posted:



Please.... All you did was bring up more red flags about why your story is not to be believed.

Why should it not be believed? Because it is TRUE and you don't like it?

You stated that your neighbors BOTH decided to leave the LDS Church, and told the Bishop that on the phone.

They did and they did. First she did, then when her husband took the phone from his crying wife and heard the bishop cursing at her he did too.

First.... A Bishop would never have discussed such matters over the phone... And most likely not without them both there.

But the REALITY of the matter is that he did.


Second.... Why on earth would a Bishop tell her to divorce her husband if they were BOTH leaving??? What would that solve? That wouldn't bring her back to our Church if she had already decided to leave.

Because she had told her bishop that her husband had decided it, and she agreed with him.

You'd have to ask their cursing bishop why he did what he did.

You see, that's the problem with a lie; in order to make it work after your facts are questioned, you have to keep making up more lies to cover-up the first one.

And that is the problem with the TRUTH, YOU have to pretend it was a lie to keep from admitting that you have such bishops and such a phony religion.

Sorry wrongway, but your slander doesn't work for you. We weren't even talking about my neighbors and you have to try to run away from the TRUTH. . .

BTW the two who came to the door was NOT what I told you, but what someone else told you, that you tried to put your own 'spin' on there too!

Doing a lot of dodging and weaving lately, aren't you?

Does anyone else feel like coming into these forums is like reading the latest gossip rag? He said, she said--the one I think must be bad, must truly be terrible?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

wrong way posted:



Please.... All you did was bring up more red flags about why your story is not to be believed.

Why should it not be believed? Because it is TRUE and you don't like it?

You stated that your neighbors BOTH decided to leave the LDS Church, and told the Bishop that on the phone.

They did and they did. First she did, then when her husband took the phone from his crying wife and heard the bishop cursing at her he did too.

First.... A Bishop would never have discussed such matters over the phone... And most likely not without them both there.

But the REALITY of the matter is that he did.


Second.... Why on earth would a Bishop tell her to divorce her husband if they were BOTH leaving??? What would that solve? That wouldn't bring her back to our Church if she had already decided to leave.

Because she had told her bishop that her husband had decided it, and she agreed with him.

You'd have to ask their cursing bishop why he did what he did.

You see, that's the problem with a lie; in order to make it work after your facts are questioned, you have to keep making up more lies to cover-up the first one.

And that is the problem with the TRUTH, YOU have to pretend it was a lie to keep from admitting that you have such bishops and such a phony religion.

Sorry wrongway, but your slander doesn't work for you. We weren't even talking about my neighbors and you have to try to run away from the TRUTH. . .

BTW the two who came to the door was NOT what I told you, but what someone else told you, that you tried to put your own 'spin' on there too!

Doing a lot of dodging and weaving lately, aren't you?

Does anyone else feel like coming into these forums is like reading the latest gossip rag? He said, she said--the one I think must be bad, must truly be terrible?