Why would anyone remain in the mormon church?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Berean

Christian is correct.

He has not been able to provide any evidence of that.

Paul asked why do "they" baptize for the dead. He didn't say "we."

He didn't say "unbelievers" either. "They" is not a synonym of "unbelievers."

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

He has not been able to provide any evidence of that.


He didn't say "unbelievers" either. "They" is not a synonym of "unbelievers."

The "They" he is talking about in that whole section is the "they" that dont believe in the resurrection.

So "they" are unbelievers.


The 'we" are the believers.
The "we" are Christians...

The 'we" people dont baptize for the dead.


I cant find a word in the bible that teaches that "we' Christians are baptizing the dead...

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Erundur

He has not been able to provide any evidence of that.


He didn't say "unbelievers" either. "They" is not a synonym of "unbelievers."

Repeating the statement won't change it into something you want to hear. Paul clearly said "they" which indicates Paul is not referring to the people he is speaking directly to but someone else. Otherwise he would have said "we."

In this case he is referring to "those" who do baptize for the dead. who were unbelievers then and still are today.

And while you're here, why exactly "do" you baptize for the dead, since the Book of Mormon, allegedly the most correct book on the earth, teaches that "this life" is the time to repent, or else you will remain in your sin forever?

2 Ne 9:38 in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins ; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.

Mosiah 2:36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—

[that sounds final to me]

37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.

38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.

Alma 11:37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins ; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

[you must work to overcome them] (Alma 11:37)

Alma 34;30And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have received so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.

31Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation ; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

32For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .

33And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses , therefore, I beseech of you that yedo not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this...

34Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal...

35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;...

D&C 1: 31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;

33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts.

[so, why should Mormons believe this? Because:]

1 Nephi 13:24, 10:14, 15:13 imply that the Book of Mormon restores the "fullness";

D&C 20:9 says the Book of Mormon contains the "fullness of the Gospel"; also 27:5, 42:12;

D&C 10:67-68 says the complete gospel is repentance - whoever declares more is "against me";

2 Nephi 32:3 says that the words of Christ (in the Book of Mormon) will tell you everything you must do;

Mosiah 18:18-20 says to teach nothing but repentance and faith.

3 Nephi 11:31-40 Jesus declares that his "doctrine" is faith, repentance and baptism, and that "whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil..." and will go to hell (v 40)

So tell me please, why do LDS still baptize for the dead?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Berean

Repeating the statement won't change it into something you want to hear.

Then stop doing it.

Paul clearly said "they" which indicates Paul is not referring to the people he is speaking directly to but someone else.

Actually, it was the translators who said "they." Paul did not write in English.

The pronoun "they" can be used in a generic sense to mean "people" in general, not just "unbelievers" or "people other than us." He would have meant "they" in this sense because the practice of baptism for the dead is not restricted only to the church at Corinth.

So tell me please, why do LDS still baptize for the dead?

To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. You didn't know that?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

He didn't say "unbelievers" either. "They" is not a synonym of "unbelievers."

It depends on the context...

"They" can refer to people that drive too fast....

"They" can refer to people that sing rock songs.

and "they" can be talking about people that have red hair...it all depends on the context.


So in the context of the verses in question, Paul is going on and on talking about people that dont believe in the resurrection....they also have other strange ideas too Im sure....LOL

So the "they" Paul is pointing to is the unbelievers and their false ideas and practices .



and one more thing....the term "they" is always compared to the other term 'we"


We are not "they".

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Then stop doing it.


Actually, it was the translators who said "they." Paul did not write in English.

The pronoun "they" can be used in a generic sense to mean "people" in general, not just "unbelievers" or "people other than us." He would have meant "they" in this sense because the practice of baptism for the dead is not restricted only to the church at Corinth.


To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. You didn't know that?

Nonsense.

You're the one who keeps repeating the false notion that the word "they" means "we."

The word used is ποιήσουσιν which means "shall they do."

Mormons shouldn't attempt exegesis because as unbelievers you lack the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and therefore are incapable of understanding the Gospel.

Not to mention, you kicked my question to the curb... why do Mormons baptize for the dead when Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon claim that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon, yet we don't find anything at all about baptism for the dead in the Book of Mormon and yet Mormons still practice that. So why do you buck against the goads and not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men?

Will you answer that for me please?

[Berean]

Originally Posted by dberrie2000

That does not touch upon my question.



Again--the tree of life was not where?


Where do we find immortals cannot eat of the tree of life?

Either way--Adam and Eve were still immortals in the Garden, and Adam still introduced death into the world:

1 Corinthians 15:21---King James Version (KJV)
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

The tree of life was "in the midst of the Garden." (Gen 2:9)

Genesis seems to indicate that Adam and Eve would not live forever. Can you explain how they can be immortal, yet still must eat from the tree of life to live forever?

Genesis 3:22Yahweh God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he put forth his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever..." 23Therefore Yahweh God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed Cherubs at the east of the garden of Eden, and the flame of a sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

You see, this is the problem Mormons encounter when attempting to "teach" Christians what the Bible says. Christians have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who "enables" us to understand. Mormons are unbelievers and lack the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is necessary to understand the Gospel. Without this indwelling, Mormons are "always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Even as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so do these also oppose the truth; men corrupted in mind, who concerning the faith, are rejected." (2 Tim 3:7,8).

So I'll be waiting for your answer...

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Berean

Nonsense.

Nice stop-think mechanism.

You're the one who keeps repeating the false notion that the word "they" means "we."

CFR!

Not to mention, you kicked my question to the curb... why do Mormons baptize for the dead when Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon claim that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon, yet we don't find anything at all about baptism for the dead in the Book of Mormon and yet Mormons still practice that. So why do you buck against the goads and not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men?

Will you answer that for me please?

No, because your question depends on multiple false premises.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Nice stop-think mechanism.

Nonsense

It was a statement of fact. Everything you said was absolute nonsense.

Originally Posted by Erundur

CFR!

BACK UP A POST OR TWO AND READ THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED AND THE DEFINITION FOR ποιήσουσιν!

Originally Posted by Erundur

No, because your question depends on multiple false premises.

Nice stop-think mechanism.

Nonsense

How about if you dissect my argument point by point, (which you conveniently ignored, deleted and brushed off with the wave of a hand), and demonstrate these alleged "false premises?" Since my argument consisted ONLY of Mormon "scriptures" are you saying that your scriptures contain false premises? If I have taken them "out of context" as Mormons must do with Bible verses to prove Mormon doctrines, please demonstrate this by placing them in proper context for us, if you will please.

Here they are again for our enjoyment.:

And while you're here, why exactly "do" you baptize for the dead, since the Book of Mormon, allegedly the most correct book on the earth, teaches that "this life" is the time to repent, or else you will remain in your sin forever?

2 Ne 9:38 in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins ; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.

Mosiah 2:36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—

[that sounds final to me]

37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.

38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.

Alma 11:37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins ; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

[you must work to overcome them] (Alma 11:37)

Alma 34;30And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have received so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.

31Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation ; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

32For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .

33And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses , therefore, I beseech of you that yedo not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this...

34Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal...

35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;...

D&C 1: 31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;

33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts.

[so, why should Mormons believe this? Because:]

1 Nephi 13:24, 10:14, 15:13 imply that the Book of Mormon restores the "fullness";

D&C 20:9 says the Book of Mormon contains the "fullness of the Gospel"; also 27:5, 42:12;

D&C 10:67-68 says the complete gospel is repentance - whoever declares more is "against me";

2 Nephi 32:3 says that the words of Christ (in the Book of Mormon) will tell you everything you must do;

Mosiah 18:18-20 says to teach nothing but repentance and faith.

3 Nephi 11:31-40 Jesus declares that his "doctrine" is faith, repentance and baptism, and that "whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil..." and will go to hell (v 40)

So tell me please, why do LDS still baptize for the dead? And why is it a "false premise" to say that the Book of Mormon does not teach proxy baptism, when the Book of Mormon says nothing of proxy baptism and then insists it contains everything one needs to know and do to reach exaltation?

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Berean

Nonsense

It was a statement of fact. Everything you said was absolute nonsense.

So you're actually claiming that Paul wrote in English? I'm content at this point to let the readers decide which of us is posting nonsense.

BACK UP A POST OR TWO AND READ THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED AND THE DEFINITION FOR ποιήσουσιν!

How could I have written anything in your post? The challenge was for you to provide references to my posts "repeating the false notion that the word 'they' means 'we.'"

Nice stop-think mechanism.

Simply parroting back someone else's line regardless of applicability is another stop-think mechanism.

Identifying logical fallacies is not a stop-think mechanism. On the contrary, it requires thought.

How about if you dissect my argument point by point, (which you conveniently ignored, deleted and brushed off with the wave of a hand), and demonstrate these alleged "false premises?"

You don't know what the false premises are in your question? Okay, try these:

* I kicked your question to the curb.
* Joseph Smith claimed that everything we need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon.
* The Book of Mormon claims that everything we need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon.
* I do not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men.

And while you're here, why exactly "do" you baptize for the dead, since the Book of Mormon, allegedly the most correct book on the earth, teaches that "this life" is the time to repent, or else you will remain in your sin forever?

To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. (Second response)

So tell me please, why do LDS still baptize for the dead?

To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. (Third response)

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

Nice stop-think mechanism.


CFR!

From Berean:
Not to mention, you kicked my question to the curb... why do Mormons baptize for the dead when Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon claim that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon, yet we don't find anything at all about baptism for the dead in the Book of Mormon and yet Mormons still practice that. So why do you buck against the goads and not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men?

No, because your question depends on multiple false premises.

WHICH premise do you think is wrong?
1. That the book of mormon does NOT claim "that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon"
OR
2. that the book of mormon does NOT say anything at all about the baptism of the dead at all?

EITHER should be PROVABLE by you showing the CHAPTER, VERSE, or PAGE NUMBERS of your book of mormon references.

SHOW US THE EVIDENCE he is wrong, or remain lost in ignorance.

SO FAR YOU have no credibility because you cannot BACK UP what you CLAIM.

[Christian]

Erunder. . .

YOU seem to be the one who can't make 'CHRISTIANS' out of people who do NOT BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST.

THAT makes your claim about 'they' and 'we' in the 1 Corinthians p***age bogus.

PROVE ME WRONG, if you think you can!

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Christian

WHICH premise do you think is wrong?
1. That the book of mormon does NOT claim "that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon"
OR
2. that the book of mormon does NOT say anything at all about the baptism of the dead at all?

Neither. I identified the false premises in post #160.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by Erundur

So you're actually claiming that Paul wrote in English? I'm content at this point to let the readers decide which of us is posting nonsense.

That would be you, posting nonsense.

Here is proof that the word used is "they." Not "we."

Click both links below..

1 Corinthians 15:29 Conj
GRK: Ἐπεὶ τί ποιήσουσιν
NAS: Otherwise, what will those
KJV: Else what shall they do
INT: otherwise what will they do

. 1 Corinthians 15:29 Conj GRK: Ἐπεὶ τί ποιήσουσιν NAS: Otherwise, what will those
KJV: Else what shall they do INT: otherwise what will they ...
//biblehub.com/str/greek/1893.htm - 30k

Originally Posted by Erundur

How could I have written anything in your post? The challenge was for you to provide references to my posts "repeating the false notion that the word 'they' means 'we.'"

Simply parroting back someone else's line regardless of applicability is another stop-think mechanism.

No, you just don't understand poetic justice. I made you eat your own words.

Written anything in my post? I don't follow you. How could you have written something in my post?

Again, the word used, is "they."

Which I have now shown you at least twice.

And actually, since I've proved that you don't know what you're talking about, my ****ogy better suits your false claims that the word "they" really mans "we."

Originally Posted by Erundur

Identifying logical fallacies is not a stop-think mechanism. On the contrary, it requires thought.

Making bald ***ertions and dodging my questions is your stop-think mechanism

And evidently you don't know what a logical fallacy is.

Originally Posted by Erundur

You don't know what the false premises are in your question? Okay, try these:

* I kicked your question to the curb.

Yes you did. Here it is again:

Why do Mormons baptize for the dead when Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon claim that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon, yet we don't find anything at all about baptism for the dead in the Book of Mormon and yet Mormons still practice that. So why do you buck against the goads and not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men?

Originally Posted by Erundur

* Joseph Smith claimed that everything we need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon.

Read very slowly now, and try to follow along and form a rational thought or two... Joseph Smith said, "I told the brethren that the B. of M. was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than by any other book" (T. of P.J.S., p. 194).

Here, Joseph Smith clearly states that the precepts found in of the the Book of Mormon are the "keystone" of the Mormon religion, and will get one nearer to God than any other book. This includes the D&C, the Bible and the PofGP, and implies that these other scriptures do not contain the "fullness" that the Book of Mormon contains. So my statement, logically is correct. If P = Q, then /P = /Q. Joseph Smith claims the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth, and the Book of Mormon claims it contains everything a Mormon needs to know. Since Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, (or should I say plagiarized it from contemporary authors?), it's only logical to expect that Smith knows this claim, that the Book of Mormon contains everything a Mormon must know. which the Book of Mormon clearly makes for itself. See below.

Originally Posted by Erundur

* The Book of Mormon claims that everything we need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon.

I don't mind repeating myself, especially since it proves that you don't have a clue what the Book of Mormon teaches and that's because Mormons don't follow its teachings. You guys have been taught to follow the D&C and PofGP, which disagree with and contradict both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

I know the following is troubling for you but you really need to deal with the reality of what is being taught here.

Here it is again:

2 Nephi 32:3 says that the words of Christ (in the Book of Mormon) will tell you everything you must do;

Mosiah 18:18-20 says to teach nothing but repentance and faith.

3 Nephi 11:31-40 Jesus declares that his "doctrine" is faith, repentance and baptism, and that "whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil..." and will go to hell (v 40)

So can I get you to acknowledge that these verses say exactly what they mean? If so, why don't you follow these teachings? That's the reality.

Originally Posted by Erundur

* I do not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men.

I agree. Thanks for admitting that.

Originally Posted by Erundur

To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. (Second response).

Second dodge, you mean.

Do you even read my posts? The Book of Mormon clearly teaches that there is no "second chance." THIS lifetime is the time to repent, or you are sealed to Satan for eternity in the lake of fire. I'll only give you one reference, and you can do your homework and re-read my post. 2 Ne 9:38 in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins ; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.

What part of "those who die in their sins, will remain in their sins" don't you understand? What part of "sealed to Satan for eternity" don't you comprehend? There is no second chance.

Originally Posted by Erundur

To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. (Third response)

Fourth reiteration... but that is baloney because there is NO second chance. NOW, this lifetime, is the time to repent. You cannot say later, I "will" repent. You must become absolutely sinless, and do it NOW.

RIGHT now.

Alma 34;30And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have received so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.

31Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation ; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

32For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors .

33And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses , therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this...

34Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal...

35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;...

So if you have been sealed to Satan for eternity, and there is no second chance, again, why do Mormons perform proxy baptisms, when there is no basis for any such evil and ****ing practice? Evil and ****ing because it is not taught in the Book of Mormon, which claims that it teaches all you must know and do.

Are you following this now? It's simple logic. If P = Q, then /P = /Q. Proxy baptism is an unauthorized practice, according to the Book of Mormon, because it plainly says all those "who so shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil..." and will go to hell (v 40).

Now please start reading my posts so you don't cause yourself to look like a fool and I don't have to repeat myself half a dozen times.

[Erundur]

Originally Posted by Berean

That would be you, posting nonsense.

Right, definitely me and not the guy who thinks Paul wrote in English.

No, you just don't understand poetic justice. I made you eat your own words.

Hardly. It's going to take a lot more than mere mindless parroting.

Written anything in my post? I don't follow you. How could you have written something in my post?

No idea; you tell me. You're the one who cited your post as a CFR for something I wrote.

Making bald ***ertions and dodging my questions is your stop-think mechanism

ROFL!

And evidently you don't know what a logical fallacy is.

That's not evident at all. I'm the one who's pointing out your logical fallacies, which requires a knowledge of what a logical fallacy is.

Yes you did.

That is a lie. I've directly answered your question three times already (with many more repe***ions to come, I suspect.)

Why do Mormons baptize for the dead

To provide the ordinance of baptism to those who didn't have the opportunity to receive it in this life. (Fourth response)

when Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon claim that everything you need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon, yet we don't find anything at all about baptism for the dead in the Book of Mormon and yet Mormons still practice that. So why do you buck against the goads and not follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, but instead the teachings of men?

Your question still contains three false premises (can you identify that logical fallacy?). Keep working on it.

Joseph Smith said, "I told the brethren that the B. of M. was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than by any other book" (T. of P.J.S., p. 194).

But where did he say that everything we need to know can be found in the Book of Mormon?

I agree. Thanks for admitting that.

Reading comprehension fail!

Second dodge, you mean.

False. A dodge is the opposite of answering, which is what I did.

Do you even read my posts?

Sometimes.

The Book of Mormon clearly teaches that there is no "second chance."

Has someone disputed this?

Now please start reading my posts so you don't cause yourself to look like a fool and I don't have to repeat myself half a dozen times.

Then please start writing something worth reading that doesn't cause yourself to look like a fool and repeat yourself half a dozen times when you have already been answered.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

...........Then please start writing something worth reading...........

As topics go along, sometimes I have seen the guests start to care a bit too much about the posts of others.

It's when the posts stop being deeply thought out views that a person can be proud of, and start being just little shots tossed back and forth that the conversation drifts nearer to being only concerned with the snarky .

[Berean]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

As topics go along, sometimes I have seen the guests start to care a bit too much about the posts of others.

It's when the posts stop being deeply thought out views that a person can be proud of, and start being just little shots tossed back and forth that the conversation drifts nearer to being only concerned with the snarky .

You're right. My experience with Mormons is that their sole intent is to derail the discussion and hide the facts. Mormons are only concerned with protecting the prophet. Their arguments need not have anything to do with the truth. Mormons are taught, and even encouraged to lie, if necessary, with absolutely no consequence to them for doing so, and even if they know it's a lie, you will still be blessed for it:

President Harold B. Lee quoted LDS Prophet Heber J. Grant, saying, "Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don't need to worry: the Lord will never let His mouthpiece lead this people astray" (Ensign, October, 1972, p. 7).

BTW, if that is true, then the New Testament church could not be led astray either.

President J. Ruben Clark said, "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."1" (Improvement Era, June, 1945, p. 354).

The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are “found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a bade in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray....” ( Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 9:289)

“...learn to do as you are told. ...if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it, none of your business whether it is right or wrong.” (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 6:32)

“If you do things according to counsel and they are wrong, the consequences will fall on the heads of those who counseled you, so don’t be troubled.” (William Clayton’s Journal, p. 334)

“God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 363/History of the Church, 6:319-20)

“I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 13:95)

[Berean]

ERUNDER... or is it, more likely, "end runner?"

The only comment you made in the childish reply to me that is worth my time, is when I argued that the Book of Mormon offers Mormons no second chance for non repentant sinners, and you seemed to agree, by asking snidely "has someone disputed this?"

My answer is, well, yes, in essence, since all LDS practice proxy baptism for the dead, which the Book of Mormon evidently prohibits.

The fact that LDS practice proxy baptism when the Book of Mormon forbids any such practice or doctrine that cannot be found within the pages of the Book of Mormon, and even insists in no uncertain terms that you will go to hell if you do, should have some relevance to you, I would think.

Allow me to break it down even further for the logically challenged.

I don't think it's really that difficult of concept for you to understand that the Book of Mormon clearly teaches that any doctrine or practice that cannot be found in the Book of Mormon, should not be practiced. And you will go to hell if you hold, or practice any such doctrine.

Bottom line... please read slowly and think...

Proxy baptism for the dead is not taught in the Book of Mormon. My question to you is still, why do LDS practice proxy baptism for the dead when it is clearly forbidden to practice any doctrine that is not found in the Book of Mormon?

[dberrie2000]

Originally Posted by Berean

Christian is correct. Paul asked why do "they" baptize for the dead. He didn't say "we."

Paul was comparing the resurrection to the baptism of the dead--asking if the dead do not rise--then why do they baptize for the dead?

1 Corinthians 2:13---King James Version (KJV)
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Why would Paul use something you believe is false-- to validate something we know is true?

1 Corinthians 15:28-29--King James Version (KJV)
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?