Why would anyone remain in the mormon church?

[alanmolstad]

Smith made up all that **** about sex/marriage in heaven.

Smith made it up as a means to convince his wife to allow him to bed other women.

Smith dreamed up the whole- "God gave you to me" line as a means to break-down the natural resistance a young girl would have to being pursued by this creepy guy.


Whats your next question?

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Smith made up all that **** about sex/marriage in heaven.

Smith made it up as a means to convince his wife to allow him to bed other women.

Smith dreamed up the whole- "God gave you to me" line as a means to break-down the natural resistance a young girl would have to being pursued by this creepy guy.


Whats your next question?

You didn't answer my question, do you not have an answer?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

You didn't answer my question, do you not have an answer?

That "is"my answer.

My answer is that all the Mormon teaching on sex/marriage in the afterlife are a joke.

They are the dreamed up ideas of a guy who just wanted to have a bunch of sex with all the young girls he ran into, and needed a good cover story to make it possible.

The whole "God will kill me if you don't submit" line he would use once in a while is like something you would hear in a sleazy singles bar at Last Call....
(Yes, Not very convincing but if added with the right persuasion it worked, not all the time but once in a while)




All the other Mormon teachings on whatever topic you can name that Smith came out with were all the same concept at heart...Namely used in helping him bed-down young girls.


Smith was consumed with his "lust".
It did all his thinking.

In the story I linked to, you find a guy on the run...about to be arrested and killed,yet the moment he is alone with a girl he is after them....
Even on the run the guy couldn't stop!

[MickeyS]

My question was....what is the importance of family? Why did God make it a holy bond? What is the significance of it? God has a purpose to ALL things. The fact that He commanded it from the beginning of human life on this earth makes it extremely important. What is the importance of it? WHY did GOD (not Joseph Smith) make the family unit something we are to fulfill, uphold and keep sacred??

If you don't have an answer, just say so. Unless you think God arbitrarily gives us commandments that mean nothing save it be just to "do what we're told". Do you not believe God has a purpose for everything He commands of us?

[alanmolstad]

do you have a question?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

My question was....what is the importance of family? Why did God make it a holy bond? What is the significance of it? God has a purpose to ALL things. The fact that He commanded it from the beginning of human life on this earth makes it extremely important. What is the importance of it? WHY did GOD (not Joseph Smith) make the family unit something we are to fulfill, uphold and keep sacred??

If you don't have an answer, just say so. Unless you think God arbitrarily gives us commandments that mean nothing save it be just to "do what we're told". Do you not believe God has a purpose for everything He commands of us?

I was just listening to a guy who calls himself a "prophet" talk to young girls about Celestial Marriage....

I wonder if Smith's approach was any different?

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

do you have a question?

The fact that you are blatantly ignoring all those question marks shows that you are simply unwilling, or unable to answer my question. Is it because you honestly don't know Gods purpose in creating and sanctifying the family?

You keep bringing up Joseph Snith, I'm talking about GOD. You can't tell me nobody's ever asked these questions before? Anyone, someone who hasn't even heard of the LDS church...nobody's ever asked what the purpose of family is in Gods Plan for us and our future?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

The fact that you are blatantly ignoring all those question marks shows that you ,,,,,,

see post number #26 above...

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

see post number #26 above...

You also ignored the single question mark. I've been repeating the same question, over and over and over. You have not answered it. I asked it....AGAIN in #35 above.

You can play games all you like. You told me to whittle the question down, I did. You didn't answer it. I repeated it (with additional questions that would have been answered if you simply answered the one question) and you start playing the "only ask me one question" game.

You know what the question is Alan (unless you want me to believe you have a reading comprehension problem)...do you have an answer or not?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Saxon

The foolishness thinking that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three I dividual gods. Do you misrepresent my post on purpose?

No, I didn't refer to my beliefs, but to yours. The Godhead refers to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. You stated " I think better as it gets to the point of Jesus being God without any foolishness of The Father, Son and Holy Ghost being three solitary beings."

Okay, so you see "Godhead" or this divine nature ONLY referring to Christ then? and ignores the Father and Son? Is that what you think Paul and Peter meant when they spoke?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Smith made up all that **** about sex/marriage in heaven.

If there is no marriage in heaven, why does Christ refer to Israel as the bride and himself the bridegroom--as if the notion of marriage existing beyond the grave is a known fact?

And why would God sanctify marriage? Why make it holy? Why was family the promise given to Abraham? Mickey S has a good question that you are avoiding.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

You didn't answer my question, do you not have an answer?

I think he answered it correctly - since you are the one convinced that Smith is a prophet, you must defend that position How about proving he was a prophet?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

You didn't answer my question, do you not have an answer?

I think he answered it correctly - since you are the one convinced that Smith is a prophet, you must defend that position How about proving he was a prophet?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If there is no marriage in heaven, why does Christ refer to Israel as the bride and himself the bridegroom--as if the notion of marriage existing beyond the grave is a known fact?

And why would God sanctify marriage? Why make it holy? Why was family the promise given to Abraham? Mickey S has a good question that you are avoiding.

Is there something wrong with the schools that Mormons attend? I've noticed here and over on CARM that Mormons have a dearth of ability to understand what the word "metaphor" means. For instance, we have a strange Mormon over there that says Satan is a real and poweful "god," and will rule over an everlasting kingdom. He posts here as well - dberrie. He doesn't seem to understand that Paul was using a metaphorical phrase, "god of this world" to describe Satan. Based on this poor excuse for Grammar, dberrie has come up with the doctrine that Satan is a real and powerful god - so, unless you Mormons are now teaching that Satan, your "heavenly father's" second son, and Mormon Jesus' literal brother, was exalted without having had a physical body, I'd like to know how Satan was able to become a god in your mythology?

Now, Julie, what do you think the word "bride" is intended to mean in the verse you quoted? Does that mean that Jesus dragged every woman in the body of Christ to some temple and was sealed to them? Does it mean Jesus dragged every MAN in the church into some temple and got sealed to them as well (given the Mormon hatred of anything smacking of ****sexuality, I think you'd have to admit that is not a possibility)? So, what does it mean? Put on an academic hat for a minute, and think it through. Look up the word metaphor, and then you figure out what that verse means.

I don't think Christians should have to explain over and over and over again things that are self-evident by context to even a five year old.

[MickeyS]

Holy Moly there's a lot of anger or something going on here. My goodness

[MickeyS]

I think he answered it correctly - since you are the one convinced that Smith is a prophet, you must defend that position How about proving he was a prophet?

Lol, no he didn't answer it at all. I didn't ask him anything about Joseph Smith. I'm asking him about HIS beliefs about God. I'm trying to understand what he believes, because I see gaping holes that don't make sense. So I'm trying to understand.

So, no, he didn't answer my question. A much ruder person than me would say that perhaps there is something wrong with the school's you and Alan attend as there seems to be a "dearth" of reading comprehension going on here. But I'm not. But that could be the direction this conversation could keep heading, but I don't think those remarks are necessary.

These are my questions, please note they have nothing to do with Joseph Smith. Here, I offered this option to Alan, I'll offer it to you. Look at the questions as if a non-Mormon is asking because they want to understand better. The fact that a Mormon is asking the question doesn't mean there shouldn't be an answer. Either there is an answer or there's not.

My question was....what is the importance of family? Why did God make it a holy bond? What is the significance of it? God has a purpose to ALL things. The fact that He commanded it from the beginning of human life on this earth makes it extremely important. So what is the importance of the family unit, husband & wife, mother & father...etc..that it has been COMMANDED and sanctioned by God.

There is no reason to not answer the question unless you simply don't know. That is all that I was saying. So perhaps you can answer it for me. Because, I have to tell you, if I had been truly looking for someone to explain it to me because I'm looking to leave the LDS Church but there are beliefs among other Christian churches I don't understand, you would have completely shut me down.

Although I have yet to discern a purpose in this forum, I have heard people make comments that it is an "outreach" to members of "cults". I have yet to see any of that going on, and this is a very good example of that. So maybe you can answer that as well Apologette. What do YOU believe this forum is designed to do?

Thanks~

[Apologette]

Mormons remain in their cult because they are conditioned to do so. They are afraid of losing their family if they leave; they are afraid, afraid afraid. The Mormon culture is oppressive and highly vindictive. I don't throw pearls to be trampled on by those who hate the Biblical Gospel - I post for those not yet indoctrinated and brainwashed. Stay away from Mormonism because in the end it will own you. Come to Christ, to the foot of the Cross (which Mormons deny) and be saved by His Blood - not the blood of Joseph Smith!

[MickeyS]

So basically you're saying this isn't an outreach to "cult" members?

Also, you had an answer to what Julie was saying, and it was from the Bible. So do you just pick and choose your "pearls" or do you have an answer? The Bible is discussed all the time here. I don't understand why you won't answer.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Smith made up all that **** about sex/marriage in heaven.

Smith made it up as a means to convince his wife to allow him to bed other women.

Smith dreamed up the whole- "God gave you to me" line as a means to break-down the natural resistance a young girl would have to being pursued by this creepy guy.


Whats your next question?

He sure did.....especially the part about the adultery angel visiting him with a fiery sword telling him he had to marry little girls and the wives of other men behind Emma's back - Of course that must be the most hideous line I've ever heard from a man. Emma must have known what a philandering weirdo she married, but she had eloped and I doubt she'd have been welcomed back home - especially after her lazy husband wouldn't farm the land his father-in-law bought for him, along with a home! Joe never was the kind for hard work - falsely prophesying always came easier.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Smith made up all that **** about sex/marriage in heaven.

Smith made it up as a means to convince his wife to allow him to bed other women.

Smith dreamed up the whole- "God gave you to me" line as a means to break-down the natural resistance a young girl would have to being pursued by this creepy guy.


Whats your next question?

He sure did.....especially the part about the adultery angel visiting him with a fiery sword telling him he had to marry little girls and the wives of other men behind Emma's back - Of course that must be the most hideous line I've ever heard from a man. Emma must have known what a philandering weirdo she married, but she had eloped and I doubt she'd have been welcomed back home - especially after her lazy husband wouldn't farm the land his father-in-law bought for him, along with a home! Joe never was the kind for hard work - falsely prophesying always came easier.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by Erundur

We remain in the Church of Jesus Christ because we read our Bibles.


False. Baptism for the dead is one.

Since you cannot find ONE CHRISTIAN IN THE BIBLE that was ever baptized for the dead (the heathens did that), joey smith's pretends remain joseph smith's made-up junk.

[Christian]

Confused Mickey posted:

Which Bible?
KJV, NIV, NASB, ESV, NKJV, RSV, NASV, NEB, TEV, HCSB, NLT, TNIV, GNV, CET.....???

With confusion in doctrine between all these translations as well as the major doctrinal differences between all the Christian denominations...what Bible, and which "Christian" church?"


Which Bible do the mormons follow? The kjv? The 'joe smith inspired' version?

And which book of mormon? The original one or the current one with over 4,000 CHANGES in it?

And which MORMON CHURCH (You DO know there are over 150 different kinds [want me to list them, their leaders, and the dates of their origins again?] and all of THEIR doctrinal differences?

It's so funny that you believe The Bible is that "last word" in authority, and then believe in the extra-biblical creeds that came later and added to the Bible. Oh, but that was different right?

It's so funny that YOU believe the many versions of joey smith's stories are the 'last word' in authority, or for that matter that the fairy-tales joey smith made up CENTURIES LATER have any 'authority' in the sight of God at all.

And yes, I know, you will quote your single Isaiah verse that was dealing with the worship of false gods and idols. And your verse stating no other god "beside me" means no other God or being is equal to or more than Him. Which is true. He is and always will be our God, we will always worship Him, and no being, including His Son is equal to or greater than He. All are dependent upon Him.

Except it is NOT JUST ONE verse. It is NOT just 'beside me.'

1 P***age (not just one verse)

Isa 43:10
10 "You are My witnesses," says the Lord,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
NKJV

Isa 44:6
6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
NKJV

Let's see now, that makes TWO. Do you REALLY WANT TO CALL GOD A LIAR?

Isa 44:8
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

That makes THREE. So you have only proven that your 'prophet' is a liar.

AND that you don't know your Bible.

From the Above:
THERE EXISTS ONLY ONE REAL GOD
THERE WERE NEVER ANY OTHERS
THERE NEVER WILL BE ANY OTHERSTHE ONE REAL GOD THAT EXISTS DOES NOT EVEN KNOW ANY OTHER REAL GODS.


Joey smith lied to you.



So arm yourself with your one verse against the dozens of verses in the New Testament especially, that clearly and repeatedly teach the Father and The Son are separate (but one in purpose)

SHOW US EVEN ONE VERSE that says the Father and Son are separate GODS. Even joey smith (in the first printing of the bom) believed they are one.

Even as far as making SURE it's crystal clear during the baptism of Jesus (an account repeated in more than one Gospel) showing the Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost are separate individuals,

But NOT separate Gods. Separate 'persons." Even joey smith believed that according to the first printing of the bom.

and man still had to create their own definition that suited what THEY believe God should be.

​Yep, joey smith and the other cultists like him did EXACTLY THAT.

[Christian]

confused way posted:

Three degrees of glory. Joey's daffynishun of the Biblical p***age PLUS all his own dung isn't from God. It is his own invention.
Church structure joey smith's made-up version is his own invention.
Nature of God joey smith's made-up gods are NOT THE REAL GOD OF THE BIBLE. They are joey smith's own invention
Role of man And like many other cultists have done, joey smith tried to 're-define' that too. It is his own invention.

So all you have are joey smith's made-up inventions! They are not from God at all!

[Apologette]

Mormons are so ill informed that they believe that different translations of the M****CRIPTS mean that the meaning is changed. They have no clue about the Bible, and never study its origin or how we came to receive the Bible. They simply are clueless, since they have "prayed" about Joe Smith's phony book, and been answered by some demon, and then turn and attack the Bible. Have you ever seen a group that attacks God's Word so much as the Mormons? At the heart of Mormon heresy is the belief that the Bible is faulty, and then they turn around and embrace the obviously false Book of Mormon which some demon has attested to in their mind. They allow a demon to direct them, and turn their backs on God's Word. Only God can release them from such bondage!

Anyone actually wanting to study the Bible's history is welcomed to read this: https://www.christianhistoryins***ut...ded-resources/

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

So basically you're saying this isn't an outreach to "cult" members?

Also, you had an answer to what Julie was saying, and it was from the Bible. So do you just pick and choose your "pearls" or do you have an answer? The Bible is discussed all the time here. I don't understand why you won't answer.

The TBMs who come to post on apologetic sites aren't open to the Gospel of Christ because in most instances God has allowed them to believe a lie. They need deliverance. I post for those your cult is trying to deceive, trying to lure into the darkness.

2 Thes. 2:11: For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie