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Thread: Why would anyone remain in the mormon church?

  1. #51
    MickeyS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apologette View Post

    The TBMs who come to post on apologetic sites aren't open to the Gospel of Christ because in most instances God has allowed them to believe a lie. They need deliverance. I post for those your cult is trying to deceive, trying to lure into the darkness.


    2 Thes. 2:11: For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
    So again, you still are unable to answer my question.

  2. #52
    alanmolstad
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    God does not marry people...

    People marry each other.

    God and his church can bless a marriage....but the church does not actually "marry" people to each other....


    This is why Paul could offer the advice that its better to not get married.
    This shows us that being married is not a command...for if it were a command then Paul was going against that command when he told his church to not seek getting married if their p***ions will allow it.

    But the fact is, human p***ion can get the best of people, and for that sake of such people, they still can get married.
    But let us never think that because we are married we are somehow better off then they who are not married, for the truth is the opposite.

  3. #53
    alanmolstad
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    This also is why Mormonism is against marriage...for they were founded by a guy who ran around on his wife.

    Its so bad, that when poor Smith ran out of reasons for young girls to sleep with him, he would fall back on the old stand-by of a John talking to a Hooker...and he would offer the girl $5 bucks if they would let him sleep with them.

    This means that all of Mormonism is actually the result of a John's idea on how to get girls to agree to have sex with him.

  4. #54
    MickeyS
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    Genesis 2:24
    Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh

    This came IMMEDIATELY after God created Eve. So, you're saying this is not important to
    God then. Interesting. Doesn't make sense, but interesting.

    As far as it NOT being a commandment. God commanded Adam & Eve to multiply & replenish the earth, which they cannot do without having sexual relations, which they cannot have without being married.

    How was it then not commanded?



    So you're answer is, marriage, family...isn't important to God then? Husbands wives, mothers fathers, nothing? One is just a way to have sex, and the other is a byproduct of sex.

    AND....people are better off not being married, and actually Gods servants teach that getting married should be avoided if possible.

    And I would want to leave the LDS church for that because...??
    Last edited by MickeyS; 03-22-2016 at 04:55 PM.

  5. #55
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    Genesis 2:24
    Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh

    This came IMMEDIATELY after God created Eve. So, you're saying this is not important to
    God then. Interesting. Doesn't make sense, but interesting.

    As far as it NOT being a commandment. God commanded Adam & Eve to multiply & replenish the earth, which they cannot do without having sexual relations, which they cannot have without being married.

    How was it then not commanded?

    So you're answer is, marriage, family...isn't important to God then? Husbands wives, mothers fathers, nothing? One is just a way to have sex, and the other is a byproduct of sex.

    AND....people are better off not being married, and actually Gods servants teach that getting married should be avoided if possible.

    And I would want to leave the LDS church for that because...??
    Hi Mickey. I believe the most interesting and overlooked point in Genesis 2 is the fact Adam and Eve were husband and wife in immortality--before they became mortals.

  6. #56
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    Default Of course Genesis 2 says no such thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Hi Mickey. I believe the most interesting and overlooked point in Genesis 2 is the fact Adam and Eve were husband and wife in immortality--before they became mortals.
    Which of course, is hogwash. Genesis 2 says no such thing. IF YOU THINK IT DOES, please give us chapter and verse where it does. You can't find it, of course.

    You must be 'ribbing' us!

  7. #57
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi Mickey. I believe the most interesting and overlooked point in Genesis 2 is the fact Adam and Eve were husband and wife in immortality--before they became mortals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Which of course, is hogwash. Genesis 2 says no such thing. IF YOU THINK IT DOES, please give us chapter and verse where it does. You can't find it, of course.

    You must be 'ribbing' us!
    The pronouncement of physical death was not until after the Fall. Death entered through the fruit:

    Genesis 2:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Are you claiming Adam and Eve were already mortals--and they would have died anyway?

    Christian--Genesis 2 was before the Fall:

    Genesis 2:24-25---King James Version (KJV)
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

  8. #58
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    Default More of joe smith's fictions. . .his jesus is a demon

    berry posted:

    Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
    Which of course, is hogwash. Genesis 2 says no such thing. IF YOU THINK IT DOES, please give us chapter and verse where it does. You can't find it, of course.

    You must be 'ribbing' us!
    The pronouncement of physical death was not until after the Fall. Death entered through the fruit:

    Genesis 2:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Are you claiming Adam and Eve were already mortals--and they would have died anyway?

    They were indeed mortal (PHYSICAL BEINGS) before the fall and no, they would NOT have died.


    Christian--Genesis 2 was before the Fall:

    Genesis 2:24-25---King James Version (KJV)
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

    Yep, they WERE ALIVE PHYSICAL BEINGS, not 'spirit babies' or even 'spirit people' before the fall. Your pretense of a 'momma goddess' (or a BUNCH of them) impregnated by a 'daddy god' to pop out 'bubble spirit babies' is completely foreign to the Hebrew faith AND the Christian faith, and NOBODY IN THE CHURCH JESUS BUILT ABOUT 2,000 years ago believed or taught such trashy nonsense.

    Sorry berry, but you blew it again with your ***UMPTIONS of fiction. You believe it only because your conman common criminal 'prophet' (No better than the 'father' of all of those 'flds' kids) who tried to shoot his way out of jail INVENTED the idea.

    If Jesus were a 'spirit brother of satan,' that would make Jesus a demon too! But you don't seem to care.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
    So again, you still are unable to answer my question.
    I don't see where you ever POSTED any question that has not been addressed, showing joey smith to be the common criminal and false prophet that he was before he was sent to eternal hell.

  10. #60
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi Mickey. I believe the most interesting and overlooked point in Genesis 2 is the fact Adam and Eve were husband and wife in immortality--before they became mortals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Which of course, is hogwash. Genesis 2 says no such thing. IF YOU THINK IT DOES, please give us chapter and verse where it does. You can't find it, of course.

    You must be 'ribbing' us!
    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 The pronouncement of physical death was not until after the Fall. Death entered through the fruit:

    Genesis 2:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Are you claiming Adam and Eve were already mortals--and they would have died anyway?

    Christian--Genesis 2 was before the Fall:

    Genesis 2:24-25---King James Version (KJV)
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Yep, they WERE ALIVE PHYSICAL BEINGS,
    And so was Christ here--that does not mean they were mortals:

    Luke 24:39---King James Version (KJV)
    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

  11. #61
    alanmolstad
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    You kinda lose the train of thought when you put on quote next to another, next to another, next to another, all with different subjects within them....

  12. #62
    alanmolstad
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    the tree of life gave the eater the ability to live forever...

    There is evidence that Adam and Eve had never eaten of the tree of life in the story, as well as evidence that even after they had sinned they still had the chance to eat of the tree of life and live forever in the story...

  13. #63
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    the tree of life gave the eater the ability to live forever...

    There is evidence that Adam and Eve had never eaten of the tree of life in the story,
    Could you explain to us, if Adam and Eve were already going to die--then what would have been the efficacy of this pronouncement?

    Genesis 2:17---King James Version (KJV)
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


    It is commonly thought death and sin were introduced into the world at the point they partook of the fruit, hence--the need for a Redeemer, both to conquer physical death(resurrection)--and sin(died for the sins of the world).

  14. #64
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Could you explain to us,.........

    Genesis 2:17---King James Version (KJV).... thou shalt surely die.

    ....
    ...."sin sprang to life and I died."

    Paul says this...but Adam could also have said this too...

  15. #65
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View PostCould you explain to us,.........

    Genesis 2:17---King James Version (KJV).... thou shalt surely die.
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    ...."sin sprang to life and I died."

    Paul says this...but Adam could also have said this too...
    What is your evidence the warning given in Gen2:17 didn't apply to both physical and spiritual death?

  16. #66
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    What is your evidence the warning given in Gen2:17 didn't apply to both physical and spiritual death?
    where does the term "spiritual death" appear in the Bible again?

  17. #67
    dberrie2000
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    Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post What is your evidence the warning given in Gen2:17 didn't apply to both physical and spiritual death?
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    where does the term "spiritual death" appear in the Bible again?
    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/spiritual-death.htm

    God Warned Adam About Spiritual Death

    And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die" (Gen 2:16,17)
    Adam was righteous and resided in the garden of Eden, a paradise garden only for the righteous, but lived with the ever-present danger of spiritual death.

    Again-- What is your evidence the warning given in Gen2:17 didn't apply to both physical and spiritual death?

  18. #68
    alanmolstad
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    There you go again....quoting a term to me that does not appear in the Text and that you cant find no matter how hard you look....

    You want my opinion of your term "Spiritual Death"?...fine, here it is.

    I cant find that term in the Bible, and when I ask you to look for it you cant find it as well.
    This points out to me in a big way a flaw in your whole line of reasoning...

    There are a lot of words in the story of Genesis....if you have a question about any of the words in the Text as written in Genesis?...then ask, (as I know a few things about that book of the Bible due to my many,many posts on the topic of Creationism vs Evolution)......so I would love to address any questions anyone might have about the words that appear in the Genesis Text as recorded.

    But when people start asking me questions about terms and words that are not found in the text?...I just think that ends up in a pointless debate over things that ,( because they dont actually appear in the text but are just personal conclusions), cant be proved one way or the other because of a basic lack of them appearing in the text.

  19. #69
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    There you go again....quoting a term to me that does not appear in the Text and that you cant find no matter how hard you look....
    You mean such as "Trinity", "faith alone", "co-eternal", "once-saved-always-saved", "rapture", etc?

  20. #70
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    You mean such as "Trinity", "faith alone", "co-eternal", "once-saved-always-saved", "rapture", etc?
    asfar asI can see,,,they also do not appear in the Genesis story of Adam....

    I can answer a question you might have as to what actually appears in the genesis text...but if you just want to talk about your personal conclusions?.....then thats a pointless effort.

  21. #71
    alanmolstad
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    so,,,,the idea that Adam and Eve would have lived forever....its a nice idea and all,,,and there was a way in the story for that to happen..

    Its to eat of the tree of life.

    But I dont see anywhere that Adam expected to live forever without eating of the tree of life....

    do you?
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 10-29-2016 at 04:28 PM.

  22. #72
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    so,,,,the idea that Adam and Eve would have lived forever....its a nice idea and all,,,and there was a way in the story for that to happen..

    Its to eat of the tree of life.
    Since the tree of life was already in the Garden, and they were not forbidden to partake of it--what is your evidence they did not partake of it?

  23. #73
    alanmolstad
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    What evidence do I have that they did not go watch the newest Star Wars movie?.....

    What evidence do I have that they did not play ring-around-the-rosy?....




    My answer:
    All I can say is that the Text tells us what it wants us to know...
    I dont need to add anything just to make it fit with my ideas about what it "should" have said....




    And that means:
    I can not teach that Adam had already eaten of the tree of life unless I can see a verse that teaches that he did.

    also, there is the idea that we get with the words found in the text, "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

    If eating the tree of life means you only gained a weird type of life that was "temporary forever" then there would be no point in trying to stop Adam from eating...

    If the life the tree of life gave could be taken away from Adam later, then what is the point in stopping him from eating??????

    Who would care if Adam ate or not?...if God could take away that type of life???



    And another thing:
    Consider the word "Forever"
    The word the Bible used, "forever" mean unending.....not just "until later".


    So the words used in the Bible are very solidly telling us that to eat of the tree of life is to live forever regardless of what God wanted or not....

    and that is why God had to kick Adam out of the garden....







    and that means that Adam had not eaten yet, (or else the "live forever" verse would be in full effect)



    So in conclusion: the idea that Adam expected to live forever without eating from the tree of life is not supported by the Bible.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 10-29-2016 at 06:02 PM.

  24. #74
    dberrie2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    So in conclusion: the idea that Adam expected to live forever without eating from the tree of life is not supported by the Bible.
    You have not established Adam had not eaten of the tree of life.

    1 Corinthians 15:21---King James Version (KJV)
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

    Could you explain what man death came by?

  25. #75
    alanmolstad
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    Can I proved that Adam didn't go see the newest Star Wars movie?

    And the reason is I can only prove things that are actually written in the bible. ..

    Does the bible say Adam ever ate from the tree of life? ...No.

    Does the bible even hint that Adam ate of it?...No.

    Can we say he ate based only on a lack of proof he didnt?...No.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 10-30-2016 at 07:55 AM.

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