Mormons, Why Do You Believe Such Junk?

[Christian]

Julie posted:

Originally Posted by Apologette [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]
Most of the Mormons I know aren't even aware of the history of their organization or the licentious lifestyle of Joseph Smith. The other half don't care.

I guess I fit into the "don't care" category because I have read it and realize that most of it is pure gossip and sensationalism at best and hypocrisy at worst.

At least your religion wants you to THINK that. . .

Our history is messy.

It is.

I've never read a true history of anything that isn't. To think one can remove themselves from history and pretend to be "clean" from it is not realistic. If you are an American, you have a messy history.

The last part is true anyway.

If you are a Christian, you have a messy history.

Care to DEFINE what you think is 'messy history) for Christians?

It is what it is.

But, ultimately, it does not change what I know today. Today, those who follow the revelations given to Joseph Smith are faithful spouses who are committed to following Jesus Christ.

UNFORTUNATELY joseph smith was NOT a faithful spouse and followed a FALSE christ of his own making.

Jesus is ALWAYS faithful. Smith was not.

I'll follow Jesus instead of smith.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

[COLOR=#0000ff]

Care to DEFINE what you think is 'messy history) for Christians?

If you believe the revelations given to Joseph Smith, you are a follower of Jesus Christ by definition.

Now to get to your question of why I think Christians have a messy history:

1. First apostles are all killed off (except John).

2. From the murder of Peter, popes were being murdered off at rapid rates.

3. 300 years later (more time between now and when the Cons***ution was written) Christianity was being influenced by politics. The definition of God was defined by a minority rule in which anyone who disagreed was killed off.

4. 1296, Pope Celestine V was murdered by his successor (Pope Boniface VIII)

5. 1546, By Martin Luther, the church had become so corrupt that Luther spoke out against it and was later excommunicated. Wars begin to erupt between Catholic church and those who disagree.

6. In the early 1500's, King Henry VIII, in order to have the wife of his choice, gave up the Catholic church and began the church of England. The people were happy because they were tired of paying money to a corrupt church. Henry VIII, who had his next wives beheaded is now the head of the Church of England.

7. At this point, Catholics and Protestants are in full on war--those in power killing off or exiling those who did not agree with them.

8. People flee to America for religion freedom in the north and to spread the Catholic church in the Southern Hemisphere.

9. 1692, Early on in the establishment of "christianity" in America, we get the Salem witch trials.

10. Christians in the South fight for slave rights. (In fact, the largest slave trade in history was created by Europe's Christians.)

I sure hope you don't think this history is part of your history and has not influenced your traditions or religious thought.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If you believe the revelations given to Joseph Smith, you are a follower of Jesus Christ by definition.

Now to get to your question of why I think Christians have a messy history:

1. First apostles are all killed off (except John).

2. From the murder of Peter, popes were being murdered off at rapid rates.

3. 300 years later (more time between now and when the Cons***ution was written) Christianity was being influenced by politics. The definition of God was defined by a minority rule in which anyone who disagreed was killed off.

4. 1296, Pope Celestine V was murdered by his successor (Pope Boniface VIII)

5. 1546, By Martin Luther, the church had become so corrupt that Luther spoke out against it and was later excommunicated. Wars begin to erupt between Catholic church and those who disagree.

6. In the early 1500's, King Henry VIII, in order to have the wife of his choice, gave up the Catholic church and began the church of England. The people were happy because they were tired of paying money to a corrupt church. Henry VIII, who had his next wives beheaded is now the head of the Church of England.

7. At this point, Catholics and Protestants are in full on war--those in power killing off or exiling those who did not agree with them.

8. People flee to America for religion freedom in the north and to spread the Catholic church in the Southern Hemisphere.

9. 1692, Early on in the establishment of "christianity" in America, we get the Salem witch trials.

10. Christians in the South fight for slave rights. (In fact, the largest slave trade in history was created by Europe's Christians.)

I sure hope you don't think this history is part of your history and has not influenced your traditions or religious thought.

Joseph Smith believed taught that the Mormon god was raised on another planet and became an exalted god, and was appointed by a council of other gods to rule over earth. Sorry, if you believe that you are a polytheist because it has nothing to do with Christianity. You have to choose between Smith and Jesus - you can't have both.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Joseph Smith believed taught that the Mormon god was raised on another planet and became an exalted god, and was appointed by a council of other gods to rule over earth. Sorry, if you believe that you are a polytheist because it has nothing to do with Christianity. You have to choose between Smith and Jesus - you can't have both.

Apologette,your understanding of my beliefs is the equivalent of reading the National Inquirer and thinking you have a handle on where Elvis Presley currently lives. It is humorous, if nothing else.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Apologette,your understanding of my beliefs is the equivalent of reading the National Inquirer and thinking you have a handle on where Elvis Presley currently lives. It is humorous, if nothing else.

No, I understand Satanic Mormonism quite well. It originated in the mind of Satan, and those who embrace Smith, embrace Satan. If you won't repent, it is because you love the lie.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

No, I understand Satanic Mormonism quite well. It originated in the mind of Satan, and those who embrace Smith, embrace Satan. If you won't repent, it is because you love the lie.

Actually you don't. You can believe anything you want to--but taking it from someone who has studied it, studied its history, lived it, and received a witness to it--you really don't understand anything at all. You speak in mean, vicious and hateful ways of something you do not understand. It would be the equivalent of a KKK member speaking of blacks in the early 20th century. History is and will continue to prove you wrong.

[Christian]

julie posted:

Originally Posted by Christian [IMG]http://www.waltermartin.com/forums/images/****ons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]


And yet the 'spirit' that testifies to you is NOT the Holy Spirit of the Bible, since he testifies to you of a 'spirit-brother-of-satan' instead of the REAL JESUS CHRIST WHO is NOT a 'spirit brother' of satan at all.

No insult.

Just the TRUTH.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

The TRUTH is that I do. YOU SAY you believe the Jesus and Holy Spirit that Joseph Smith taught, do you not?

I can SHOW YOU WHERE JOE WROTE that Jesus was 'a' god amongst other gods, and that the jesus HE taught was a 'spirit brother' to satan.

I can ALSO SHOW YOU IN THE BIBLE that satan is a fallen angel, and that Jesus CREATED the angels. The 'creation-to-creator relationship' IS NOT 'brother-to-brother.' NEITHER can you show in the BIBLE that satan is a 'spirit child' of God the Father. It simply is NOT THERE.

And the REAL Holy Spirit would NEVER testify that Jesus is an angel, a 'spirit-brother' or anything OTHER THAN a being CREATED BY JESUS. Thus YOUR spirit cannot be the REAL Holy Spirit.

I am in a big discussion with Alan right now about who God is. His answer is that God is not like anything we know. So, I have studied up on the trinity more and its history. Do you realize that your definition of God was created 300 years after the death of Christ (more years between the Bible and the trinity creation then where we are and the writing of the Cons***ution.)

A Totally FALSE CLAIM. The BIBLE (those writings are ALL about 2,000 years old or older (The OT text is older).

The BIBLE says
The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God
THERE IS ONLY ONE REAL GOD ANYWHERE EVER (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc) Thus THEY ARE ONE GOD.

AND

'Trinity' is the LABEL we label that concept with.

The TRUTH has existed from the beginning of time.

The LABEL is simply something we use to conveniently make it unnecessary for us to 'explain it' every time we refer to the triune God.

Yet you cling to this 300-year old definition of God and state that I do NOT know the Holy Spirit. Yeah right.

You obviously believe a spirit that LIES about God to follow YOUR definition that was thought up by joe smith less than 200 years ago. His 175 or so year old invention is supposed to define God? Yeah, RIGHT. . .

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

julie posted:

[/COLOR][/I][/COLOR]

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

The TRUTH is that I do. YOU SAY you believe the Jesus and Holy Spirit that Joseph Smith taught, do you not?

I can SHOW YOU WHERE JOE WROTE that Jesus was 'a' god amongst other gods, and that the jesus HE taught was a 'spirit brother' to satan.

I can ALSO SHOW YOU IN THE BIBLE that satan is a fallen angel, and that Jesus CREATED the angels. The 'creation-to-creator relationship' IS NOT 'brother-to-brother.' NEITHER can you show in the BIBLE that satan is a 'spirit child' of God the Father. It simply is NOT THERE.

And the REAL Holy Spirit would NEVER testify that Jesus is an angel, a 'spirit-brother' or anything OTHER THAN a being CREATED BY JESUS. Thus YOUR spirit cannot be the REAL Holy Spirit.

I am in a big discussion with Alan right now about who God is. His answer is that God is not like anything we know. So, I have studied up on the trinity more and its history. Do you realize that your definition of God was created 300 years after the death of Christ (more years between the Bible and the trinity creation then where we are and the writing of the Cons***ution.)

A Totally FALSE CLAIM. The BIBLE (those writings are ALL about 2,000 years old or older (The OT text is older).

The BIBLE says
The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God
THERE IS ONLY ONE REAL GOD ANYWHERE EVER (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc) Thus THEY ARE ONE GOD.

AND

'Trinity' is the LABEL we label that concept with.

The TRUTH has existed from the beginning of time.

The LABEL is simply something we use to conveniently make it unnecessary for us to 'explain it' every time we refer to the triune God.

Yet you cling to this 300-year old definition of God and state that I do NOT know the Holy Spirit. Yeah right.

You obviously believe a spirit that LIES about God to follow YOUR definition that was thought up by joe smith less than 200 years ago. His 175 or so year old invention is supposed to define God? Yeah, RIGHT. . .

Wow, Christian--I really wish you would learn to use the quote bubble---seriously, it is not hard.

Please don't pretend to know my heart, understand my beliefs, or accuse me of not knowing the Holy Spirit. You just have no way of knowing me in such a way.

Please, show me where it states that Christ created angels.

You never answered my question about Cain and Abel.

Actually, it is easy to read up on the history of the Trinity and where it came from and how it was decided upon.

The BIBLE says
The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God

Will you show me the exact verse that says exactly what you just posted?

The trinity concept is not found in the Bible--anywhere.

My belief about God is consistent with what is taught in the Bible. Your trinity definition is not Bibically based and never has been. As such, you cannot show me it from the Bible.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

julie posted:

[/COLOR][/I][/COLOR]

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

The TRUTH is that I do. YOU SAY you believe the Jesus and Holy Spirit that Joseph Smith taught, do you not?

I can SHOW YOU WHERE JOE WROTE that Jesus was 'a' god amongst other gods, and that the jesus HE taught was a 'spirit brother' to satan.

I can ALSO SHOW YOU IN THE BIBLE that satan is a fallen angel, and that Jesus CREATED the angels. The 'creation-to-creator relationship' IS NOT 'brother-to-brother.' NEITHER can you show in the BIBLE that satan is a 'spirit child' of God the Father. It simply is NOT THERE.

And the REAL Holy Spirit would NEVER testify that Jesus is an angel, a 'spirit-brother' or anything OTHER THAN a being CREATED BY JESUS. Thus YOUR spirit cannot be the REAL Holy Spirit.

I am in a big discussion with Alan right now about who God is. His answer is that God is not like anything we know. So, I have studied up on the trinity more and its history. Do you realize that your definition of God was created 300 years after the death of Christ (more years between the Bible and the trinity creation then where we are and the writing of the Cons***ution.)

A Totally FALSE CLAIM. The BIBLE (those writings are ALL about 2,000 years old or older (The OT text is older).

The BIBLE says
The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God
THERE IS ONLY ONE REAL GOD ANYWHERE EVER (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8 etc etc etc) Thus THEY ARE ONE GOD.

AND

'Trinity' is the LABEL we label that concept with.

The TRUTH has existed from the beginning of time.

The LABEL is simply something we use to conveniently make it unnecessary for us to 'explain it' every time we refer to the triune God.

Yet you cling to this 300-year old definition of God and state that I do NOT know the Holy Spirit. Yeah right.

You obviously believe a spirit that LIES about God to follow YOUR definition that was thought up by joe smith less than 200 years ago. His 175 or so year old invention is supposed to define God? Yeah, RIGHT. . .

Wow, Christian--I really wish you would learn to use the quote bubble---seriously, it is not hard.

Please don't pretend to know my heart, understand my beliefs, or accuse me of not knowing the Holy Spirit. You just have no way of knowing me in such a way.

Please, show me where it states that Christ created angels.

You never answered my question about Cain and Abel.

Actually, it is easy to read up on the history of the Trinity and where it came from and how it was decided upon.

The BIBLE says
The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God

Will you show me the exact verse that says exactly what you just posted?

The trinity concept is not found in the Bible--anywhere.

My belief about God is consistent with what is taught in the Bible. Your trinity definition is not Bibically based and never has been. As such, you cannot show me it from the Bible.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Wow, Christian--I really wish you would learn to use the quote bubble---seriously, it is not hard.

Good to know I am not the only one who has been wishing that.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Actually you don't. You can believe anything you want to--but taking it from someone who has studied it, studied its history, lived it, and received a witness to it--you really don't understand anything at all. You speak in mean, vicious and hateful ways of something you do not understand. It would be the equivalent of a KKK member speaking of blacks in the early 20th century. History is and will continue to prove you wrong.

Well, lady, actually I do - and my specialty is Mormon history. If you find something that I post which you believe is untrue, prove it is untrue.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Well, lady, actually I do - and my specialty is Mormon history. If you find something that I post which you believe is untrue, prove it is untrue.

If you make the accusation, then the one who needs to provide the proof is you.

[Christian]

Julie posted:

Wow, Christian--I really wish you would learn to use the quote bubble---seriously, it is not hard.

I have used it with YOU regularly, it's not hard to see. I choose to use a different COLOR when it is not needed.

Please don't pretend to know my heart, understand my beliefs, or accuse me of not knowing the Holy Spirit. You just have no way of knowing me in such a way.

Pointing out that when your 'holy spirit' contradicts what GOD has said in HIS WORD, THE BIBLE, then the 'spirit' you seem to know is NOT the Holy Spirit of GOD at all, but an EVIL spirit instead, masquerading as the Holy Spirit.



Please, show me where it states that Christ created angels.

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
NKJV

WHAT part of 'ALL' do you not understand?

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Word is obviously JESUS Who became flesh and dwelt among us etc.



You never answered my question about Cain and Abel.

I don't remember ever seeing a question about Cain and Abel. Did it have to do with this conversation?

Actually, it is easy to read up on the history of the Trinity and where it came from and how it was decided upon.

It's easy to read upon the history of joe smith and what HE was like from the same sources. Do you wish to accept BOTH 'histories' as being truth?

The Father is God
Jesus is God
the Holy Spirit is God
and
There is only one real God ANYWHERE, EVER
Thus
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD
and other 'gods' are false gods

Will you show me the exact verse that says exactly what you just posted

That's NOT EXACTLY what I posted, but then the window I am in won't let me cut and paste what I DID post. I KNOW YOU DON"T believe what the Bible says:

The Father is God: Matthew 22:32 (DO YOU CARE TO DENY THAT IS TRUE?)
Jesus is God: Colossians 2:9 (Do you care to DENY THAT IS TRUE EITHER?)
Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4 (Wanna DENY THAT IS TRUE EITHER?)
There is only ONE real God ANYWHERE EVER: Isaiah 43:10, 44:6 44:8 etc etc
Mark 12:32-33


32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.
NKJV
(Wanna deny THAT one?)
That they are ONE GOD is a logical conclusion.
It is also SCRIPTURAL: 1 John 5:7


The trinity concept is not found in the Bible--anywhere.

Your claim is proven wrong by the scriptures above.

My belief about God is consistent with what is taught in the Bible. Your trinity definition is not Bibically based and never has been. As such, you cannot show me it from the Bible.

Except I just did. Sorry if you don't understand it.

1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV

The TRUE nature of God does seem foolish to you. . .

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Christian

Julie posted:

Wow, Christian--I really wish you would learn to use the quote bubble---seriously, it is not hard.

I have used it with YOU regularly, it's not hard to see. I choose to use a different COLOR when it is not needed.

Well, if you know how to use the quotes and continue to not do so even when asked--well, I am not sure why not? By using color instead of quotes, it makes it really hard to respond to your comments.

Pointing out that when your 'holy spirit' contradicts what GOD has said in HIS WORD, THE BIBLE, then the 'spirit' you seem to know is NOT the Holy Spirit of GOD at all, but an EVIL spirit instead, masquerading as the Holy Spirit.

I disagree with your interpretation of the Bible. I believe it is you who are being fooled.

Please, show me where it states that Christ created angels.

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
NKJV

WHAT part of 'ALL' do you not understand?

I have no problem with the word "all"--I read, "through" him, to be different than by him. To me, this scripture makes it clear that it is because of Christ that we can be or in other words, without the atonement, nothing can be.

I don't remember ever seeing a question about Cain and Abel. Did it have to do with this conversation?

If you remember nothing of my question of Cain and Abel, you are not reading my posts thoroughly.

Actually, it is easy to read up on the history of the Trinity and where it came from and how it was decided upon.

It's easy to read upon the history of joe smith and what HE was like from the same sources. Do you wish to accept BOTH 'histories' as being truth?

Same sources? Hardly. If you read up on peer-reviewed historical work, you would not be posting as you do. You get your "history" from the National Inquirer of histories.




[

COLOR=#0000ff]That's NOT EXACTLY what I posted, but then the window I am in won't let me cut and paste what I DID post. I KNOW YOU DON"T believe what the Bible says:

The Father is God: Matthew 22:32 (DO YOU CARE TO DENY THAT IS TRUE?)
Jesus is God: Colossians 2:9 (Do you care to DENY THAT IS TRUE EITHER?)
Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4 (Wanna DENY THAT IS TRUE EITHER?)
There is only ONE real God ANYWHERE EVER: Isaiah 43:10, 44:6 44:8 etc etc
[/COLOR]Mark 12:32-33

Your stretching with Acts 5:3-5. and I agree there is one God---but unlike you who believe this is 3 personages who encomp*** indescribable thing--I see God as three beings, who are one in purpose. Not unlike being one flesh with your spouse. Or our being one with God when we follow Him.

32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.
NKJV
(Wanna deny THAT one?)
That they are ONE GOD is a logical conclusion.
It is also SCRIPTURAL: 1 John 5:7

See above.

The trinity concept is not found in the Bible--anywhere.

Your claim is proven wrong by the scriptures above.

The Bible does not describe the trinity. It says that God is one, but it does not describe it as you describe it.

My belief about God is consistent with what is taught in the Bible. Your trinity definition is not Bibically based and never has been. As such, you cannot show me it from the Bible.

Except I just did. Sorry if you don't understand it.

Please show me where you get this "being of one substance with the Father"

1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV

--you think I am foolish--correct?

The TRUE nature of God does seem foolish to you. . .

[/QUOTE]

1Co 1 ¶
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:


But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

If you believe the revelations given to Joseph Smith, you are a follower of Jesus Christ by definition.

Now to get to your question of why I think Christians have a messy history:

1. First apostles are all killed off (except John).

2. From the murder of Peter, popes were being murdered off at rapid rates.

3. 300 years later (more time between now and when the Cons***ution was written) Christianity was being influenced by politics. The definition of God was defined by a minority rule in which anyone who disagreed was killed off.

4. 1296, Pope Celestine V was murdered by his successor (Pope Boniface VIII)

5. 1546, By Martin Luther, the church had become so corrupt that Luther spoke out against it and was later excommunicated. Wars begin to erupt between Catholic church and those who disagree.

6. In the early 1500's, King Henry VIII, in order to have the wife of his choice, gave up the Catholic church and began the church of England. The people were happy because they were tired of paying money to a corrupt church. Henry VIII, who had his next wives beheaded is now the head of the Church of England.

7. At this point, Catholics and Protestants are in full on war--those in power killing off or exiling those who did not agree with them.

8. People flee to America for religion freedom in the north and to spread the Catholic church in the Southern Hemisphere.

9. 1692, Early on in the establishment of "christianity" in America, we get the Salem witch trials.

10. Christians in the South fight for slave rights. (In fact, the largest slave trade in history was created by Europe's Christians.)

I sure hope you don't think this history is part of your history and has not influenced your traditions or religious thought.

Denominational histories don't reflect the source of Christianity, which is the Incarnation, and God's Word. Mormons reject the Incarnation, and thus, reject Christ. Mormons teach there are many gods and goddesses spread throughout the universe, and the god you worship is just one of billions of gods. Who was the first "god" of Mormonism? Nobody seems to know...and, in fact, Joseph Smith, is more important within the Mormon system than Jesus Christ.

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Denominational histories don't reflect the source of Christianity, which is the Incarnation, and God's Word.

Denominational histories do reflect the traditions and beliefs of Christianity. If you don't understand that, you are kidding yourself.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Denominational histories don't reflect the source of Christianity, which is the Incarnation, and God's Word.

Wait a minute....so what you're saying is if thousands of known "Christians" do anything wrong throughout history, they weren't really "Christian", and it shouldn't reflect upon "Christianity" but any one "Mormon" who does something wrong (or even appears to do anything "wrong") reflects poorly on the LDS church in it's entirety? Ohmygosh C, you are pure entertainment

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Wait a minute....so what you're saying is if thousands of known "Christians" do anything wrong throughout history, they weren't really "Christian", and it shouldn't reflect upon "Christianity" but any one "Mormon" who does something wrong (or even appears to do anything "wrong") reflects poorly on the LDS church in it's entirety? D

You have figured out how their hypocrisy works. It is like how super-liberals won't admit that it was people of their mindset that did some really bad things to many people , in the name of socialism, but they will point to one rare incident caused by one "right winger" and say "see? This is what conservatism does to people."

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Apologette,your understanding of my beliefs is the equivalent of reading the National Inquirer and thinking you have a handle on where Elvis Presley currently lives. It is humorous, if nothing else.

Did or did not Joey Smith teach that "heavenly father" was raised on a planet much like our own? Yes or no will do.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

You have figured out how their hypocrisy works. It is like how super-liberals won't admit that it was people of their mindset that did some really bad things to many people , in the name of socialism, but they will point to one rare incident caused by one "right winger" and say "see? This is what conservatism does to people."

Isn't your suspension over yet?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Denominational histories do reflect the traditions and beliefs of Christianity. If you don't understand that, you are kidding yourself.

You certainly are no scholarly authority in Church history, that's for sure.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Apologette

You certainly are no scholarly authority in Church history, that's for sure.

How long is your suspension this time Catherine?

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by Apologette

You certainly are no scholarly authority in Church history, that's for sure.

It is naive to think that your views of doctrine are without their traditional backgrounds. Here is one site which talks about when the Holy Spirit became distinguished from the Holy Ghost and when:

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/...-to-ghost.html

This page starts with this line: "During the Middle Ages, Christian translators created a way to make the English Bible reflect their belief that the Holy Ghost was not the Holy Spirit."

I think if you spent as much time studying your own history, you would be surprised what you find.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/...-to-ghost.html

This page starts with this line: "During the Middle Ages, Christian translators created a way to make the English Bible reflect their belief that the Holy Ghost was not the Holy Spirit."

that is quite interesting - thanks for making us aware of it.