You Know You Are Gaining Ground When the Mormons Call you Names:

[Apologette]

Most Mormons you meet on apologetic sites have no clue about Christianity, and do not know the history of Mormonism or of Joseph Smith. When they start calling you names, you know you're doing something right! They simply cannot put a coherent argument together so they resort to childish tactics.

Let's see how many Mormons here believe that an angel with a fiery sword was going to kill Joseph Smith if he didn't start marrying more women? Does God operate in that way? What happened to Joey Boy's "free agency" the Mormons like to talk about so much?

Bet the Mormons here actually do believe in the adultery angel, making them suitable candidates to become TBMs and give the Mormon cult even more money than they already have!

[MickeyS]

Oh my word....smh...you know you're doing something right when somebody calls you names....

How is that "right"??

What exactly is your purpose here Apologette? What "ground" do you believe you're gaining?

[MickeyS]

But hey Apologette, I'll tell you what.

I'll answer your question, when you answer mine. Sound good?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Oh my word....smh...you know you're doing something right when somebody calls you names....

How is that "right"??

What exactly is your purpose here Apologette? What "ground" do you believe you're gaining?

My purpose is, and always has been, to tell people the truth about Joseph Smith and his Mormon cult.

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

But hey Apologette, I'll tell you what.

I'll answer your question, when you answer mine. Sound good?

Hey, I guess you believe in the adultery angel, right? Are you married?

[Apologette]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

But hey Apologette, I'll tell you what.

I'll answer your question, when you answer mine. Sound good?

Hey, I guess you believe in the adultery angel, right? Are you married?

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by Apologette

Hey, I guess you believe in the adultery angel, right? Are you married?

Are you still asking me questions? No, I said if YOU answer MY question, then I'LL answer YOURS

[Erundur]

So does this mean that Joseph Smith is gaining ground when anti-Mormons call him names?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Erundur

So does this mean that Joseph Smith is gaining ground when anti-Mormons call him names?

I have warned you before , STOP BREAKING THE FORUM'S RULES!!!

[Phoenix]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B65mtE2TN1w

[alanmolstad]

just so other guests understand:

The term "anti-Mormon"is not permitted here, and therefore we should always make sure that any guest that attempts to skirt around the rules and use the term gets a reminder that they have given their word when they signed-on to this forum that they would follow the forum's rules, and so we all expect them to do so.

in the same way, we should all always point out to other guests that we should not use the term "LDS Christian" as this kinda implies that a Mormon is considered a christian, and as we know this is wrong, for Mormons are not Christian.

Therefore if a person attempts to use the term "Mormon Christian, or LDS Christian" they would clearly be guilty of attempting to mislead other guests, and that is again, against the rules.

Thus lets all try to step up and remind people that it would be so much better for all concerned if we all followed the rules as we agreed to.

[MickeyS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

just so other guests understand:

The term "anti-Christian"is not permitted here, and therefore we should always make sure that any guest that attempts to skirt around the rules and use the term gets a reminder that they have given their word when they signed-on to this forum that they would follow the forum's rules, and so we all expect them to do so.

in the same way, we should all always point out to other guests that we should not use the term "LDS Christian" as this kinda implies that a Mormon is considered a christian, and as we know this is wrong, for Mormons are not Christian.

Therefore if a person attempts to use the term "Mormon Christian, or LDS Christian" they would clearly be guilty of attempting to mislead other guests, and that is again, against the rules.

Thus lets all try to step up and remind people that it would be so much better for all concerned if we all followed the rules as we agreed to.

I am an LDS CHRISTIAN I will NEVER say I'm not, and certainly not for this place, which does not speak for God anyway. I will never turn my back on Christ...ISIS wouldn't get me to deny Christ, and you certainly can't. It is not misleading, it is the truth. If you "ban" me for that, I will HAPPILY be banned. And if I do, I hope everyone who comes through here reads why.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

I am an LDS CHRISTIAN I will NEVER say I'm not, and certainly not for this place, which does not speak for God anyway. I will never turn my back on Christ...ISIS wouldn't get me to deny Christ, and you certainly can't. It is not misleading, it is the truth. If you "ban" me for that, I will HAPPILY be banned. And if I do, I hope everyone who comes through here reads why.

amen. i admire Latter Day Saints who bravely stand up for their beliefs, and who refuse to be bullied into submission to unfair edicts.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

just so other guests understand:

......

Some guests understand more easy....others have to learn the hard way....

[John T]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

Oh my word....smh...you know you're doing something right when somebody calls you names....

How is that "right"??

What exactly is your purpose here Apologette? What "ground" do you believe you're gaining?

You have to know Apologette for as long as I have, and then you will understand the position from where he/she comes. We do not always agree 100%, but we sufficiently agree so that each of us can cut the other some slack.

Let's do a "reset" and remember to follow the guidance of the moderator.
You (and others) may WANT to add the term "Christian" as an adjective to LDS, but it is against the rules to do so. In the same manner, both of us are forbidden to use the adkective "anti" in front of either "Christian" or "Mormon". Since every poster is a guest in the house of Walter Martin, we should keep the rules here. Iit is almost akin to visiting a neighbor's home and changing the way the toilet paper comes off the roll close to the wall, or away from it. Can you understand my point?

[Phoenix]

Anyone who would fly into a rage merely because a guest changed the TP roll's direction, has issues.....

[John T]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Anyone who would fly into a rage merely because a guest changed the TP roll's direction, has issues.....

You miss the point I made because you want to mischaracterize the post and tone of Apologette.

Since every poster is a guest in the house of Walter Martin, we should keep the rules here. It is almost akin to visiting a neighbor's home and changing the way the toilet paper comes off the roll close to the wall, or away from it. Can you understand my point?

No one mentioned "rage", excepting you.

To understand the thinking process of Apologette, there are are only two words one needs to keep in mind: DOCTRINE MATTERS. Everything in his/her posts stem from those two words. Whatever the poster posts, it is done from a perspective that is based on the premise that because the doctrines of the LDS church are so messed up, they have this stupid, heretical and anti-Christian doctrine that is based on a false theology of merited favor and earning exaltation.

So if you can put your misunderstanding on hold for a while, and attempt to understand those terms you will have taken a H U G E step of understanding.

BTW
I am sure that Apologette will not object to that summary, because as much as I know him/her there surely be a responding post if there is NOT agreement.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by John T

You miss the point I made because you want to mischaracterize the post and tone of Apologette.

what are you talking about? my post wasn't about apologette at all, it was in response to your post, and Alan's post, which were trying to justify draconian rule enforcement.
go back and re read.

No one mentioned "rage", excepting you.

sorry, maybe "rage" isn't the right word to describe the mood of someone who kicks you out of their house for merely making the TP unroll in a different way.
what is a more accurate word?

"grossly overreacting"?
"Rule Nazi"?
"totalitarian"?

BTW
I am sure that Apologette will not object to that summary, because ...

That is wonderful, but she wasn't even the topic I was addressing. please try to make a HUGE step in understanding that fact.

[Christian]

Originally Posted by MickeyS

I am an LDS CHRISTIAN I will NEVER say I'm not, and certainly not for this place, which does not speak for God anyway. I will never turn my back on Christ...ISIS wouldn't get me to deny Christ, and you certainly can't. It is not misleading, it is the truth. If you "ban" me for that, I will HAPPILY be banned. And if I do, I hope everyone who comes through here reads why.

Then you won't mind if we point out the EVIDENCE that proves there ARE NO lds Christians, will you? After all, if you want to flex YOUR 'rights to free speech' then you should not be bothered if WE DO. . .right?

And when we point out that joey smith 'married' other women who were already MARRIED to other men, you won't object. Right? Or that many of his 'prophesies' never came true, you won't whine. . .right?

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by Christian

Then you won't mind if we point out the EVIDENCE that proves there ARE NO lds Christians, will you? After all, if you want to flex YOUR 'rights to free speech' then you should not be bothered if WE DO. . .right?

And when we point out that joey smith 'married' other women who were already MARRIED to other men, you won't object. Right? Or that many of his 'prophesies' never came true, you won't whine. . .right?

good post !...

[BigJulie]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

good post !...

This reminds me that you never answered my question about how you understand "Ye are gods, and children of the Most High." You never gave me, nor did the site you referenced speak of why it states "and children of the Most High."

Also, no one ever addressed this:

Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

What do you believe Jesus means by this, what many things will the "good and faithful" servant be ruler as he "enters into the joy of the Lord"?

or you never addressed this:

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What do you believe that Christ means when he tells his apostles that they will "sit upon 12 thrones, judging"?

(When I have asked these questions before, the posters tend to ignore or make accusations and stop answering my questions.)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

This reminds me that you never answered my question about how you understand "Ye are gods, and children of the Most High." You never gave me, nor did the site you referenced speak of why it states "and children of the Most High."

I think if you check you will notice that I did deal with all that verse...
The answer I gave deals with the full context that comes in the next part that you don't seem to want to quote for some reason???


The fullest context of this part of the Bible starts at Psalm 82:1
Here we read that God is at work in the leadership that men have over each other.

In Psalm 82:2 we see that the people in charge that are being talked to have sinned and have been doing evil things like juding people in a wrong way .

Next at Psalm 82:3 we read what is the comand that is now given to these evil judges....they are to do good from now on...

again at Psalm 82:4 we see more encouragements as to how the evil judges are to now change and act in.

>......and then things swirch gears a bit and we see what the Lord actually thinks of these evil judges that are found on this earth,,,,see how this comes out at Psalm 82:5 ""The 'gods' know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken."
In this verse we see the Lord address the so-called "gods" that are the rulers over people, and he tells them and us that they are totally ignorant.

at Psalm 82:6 the Lord talks about the great-sounding ***le the rulers have...and how their important ***les make it seem to them that they must be very important...

then the Lord lowers the boom in the next verse on them-
"But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler."

You can just feel in that verse the open Sarcasm that the Lord has to the rules with their important ***les that mean nothing at all.




And that my friends, that is what this section of the bible is teaching ....







This is not actually that hard of section of the Bible to deal with.
The only trick is to re,member to always look at a verse in the context it falls in....and to also never just try to jump into the middle of something and take a wordor two out of their context.

That is what the CULTs do...
The CULTs always love to just forget the fullest context of a verse.
CULTs love to just grab a word or two, then jump to another part of the Bible to snag a word or two from there, and then act like they are building a teaching.

They are not.



thus as we have seen now...the verses starting at 82:1 do not teach that the men were actually gods, (Big G, little g, it does not matter...LOL) rather as seenj in the full context this part of the Bible is talking about the Lord warning the rulers of this earth to stop doing evil, and to start doing good...and God also reminds the rulers that regardless of their ***les and the power they have over people , they are only men, and will one day die and face a eternal judge that is not impressed with their *** ***les....

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

What do you believe that Christ means when he tells his apostles that they will "sit upon 12 thrones, judging"?

Jesus is addressing something that actually appears later in the Book of Revelation...

"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,


to cast your crown before another person is to totally give up your right to rule in place of another taking your place...
You give up being a ruler,,,,


This is my aim to do one day too!



(I actually remember Dr Walter Martin talking on his radio show about the whole topic and stuff....I will see if I can find a recording of him teaching on what Heaven will be like)

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by BigJulie

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What do you believe that Christ means when he tells his apostles that they will "sit upon 12 thrones, judging"?

Now as we look to this story in Mat 19 what we find is that in the context what we are dealing with all starts out in the story of the rich guy who comes up to Jesus and asks about what he can "do" to enter into the kingdom....

In their exchange we find out later that Jesus is warning the guys that you cant go into the Kingdom like you are seeking a higher position....you cant try to "earn' a higher ranking....you cant think that "Oh one day in Heaven I will be great, rewarded, with a high position"

This does cause the 12 to ask Jesus about, "Who then can be saved?"...and that is a good question to ask because it shows just how pointless all works are in seking the Kingdom.
And Jesus responds ....

and his response in fullness is in the next chapter where he talks about the field hands hired to work the harvest.
The ones at the start worked for an agreed wage, and had that as their inspiration...

As the story goes on what Jesus is teaching is that the men sent into the field with no agreement with the land owner at all, come out the best and are the most blessed!


This is how we are to then understand the context of the "rule over the 12 tribes" concept....

In this light, the way to understand the whole idea about the afterlife from the point of view of a Christian like myself, is to understand that we dont have any idea what is to come....
I cant even dream-up an idea of what is to come for myself as the lord returns and I rise from the grave.

But even if I dont understand, I yet must go forward in my Christian walk and not concern myself with the afterlife at all...

I dont plan on being anything...
I dont plan of earning some "thing" be it a position or a ranking in the future Kingdom.
I dont spend any time thinking abut that stuff at all, for Jesus has told a story where the field workers that entered into the work with no agreement for reward were truly the most blessed at the end...



This is why when Jesus answers his men and tells them they will rule one day, he then tacks-on the warning, "Many who would be first will be last"

This warning about us spending time now thinking about our 'rewards in heaven" is given the example in the book of Revelation, where the ones who were given a crown toss their crown before the feet of the Lord.

THAT......that story fits with what Jesus is talking about here.
It's really the same concept,:, that being that while its very natural to ask, "Whats in it for me?" and at first Jesus does address this very human-nature driven question, and informs us that the Lord will bless us truly....YET, the important thing that Jesus is teaching us here is that we Christians are not to dwell on this matter.

We are to walk our christian walk with no thought at all of rewards, and of positions in the future Kingdom.

We are to be like the field hands who were rushed into the field to work the harvest with no agreement with the land owner at all !!!!

Our example is to be like such workers!

They who worked the harvest with no thought of reward, nor any agreement for future rewards.


They worked the harvest only because they were asked to help.

[alanmolstad]

Let me know if you have any more questions ?

I will check this topic later....