Calling evolution "theistic" dosen't make it true.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

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what do we know?
We know that God was in the drawing of the straws....and because god was in control, there was a 100% "chance' that Jonah would pick the short straw.

We know this.....

We know that god did not just leave this up to random luck....

We know that when Jonah picked the short straw it was all part of god's eternal plan that was set in stone and fixed before the universe was created.

Nothing was left to chance.

Alan your making my point for me, God had a purpose and a plan in creation. He had no need for random mutations, long periods of time, survival of the fittest and all the other things that define evolution.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan your making my point for me, God had a purpose and a plan in creation. He had no need for random mutations, long periods of time, survival of the fittest and all the other things that define evolution.

You still got no Bible verses to back that stuff up yet?
after all this time you still cant find a single verse to support your views?

When you don't post a verse that supports your views, do you do that thinking I wont notice?
When you are clearly unable to counter my Scripture with your own, do you think I will overlook that fact?
That is a bit sad...
We are supposed to be ready "always" to give to every person a reason for our faith in things...

So far you seem to be totally unable to do that...so why should I listen to you at all?





And, I think you who missed my point....LOL

My point is that you can have evolution that follows the natural laws that are created by the Lord....
And at the same time you can have a story of Genesis that also talks about the very same events in earth history....and find that both works are true...and both works do not contradict each other....


Now if you disagree you better have a bible verse and not just your opinion...

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You still got no Bible verses to back that stuff up yet?
after all this time you still cant find a single verse to support your views?

When you don't post a verse that supports your views, do you do that thinking I wont notice?
When you are clearly unable to counter my Scripture with your own, do you think I will overlook that fact?
That is a bit sad...
We are supposed to be ready "always" to give to every person a reason for our faith in things...

So far you seem to be totally unable to do that...so why should I listen to you at all?





And, I think you who missed my point....LOL

My point is that you can have evolution that follows the natural laws that are created by the Lord....
And at the same time you can have a story of Genesis that also talks about the very same events in earth history....and find that both works are true...and both works do not contradict each other....


Now if you disagree you better have a bible verse and not just your opinion...

Alan,

I think you are more interested in being right than being honest. The whole bible contradicts what you are saying and your
goading will not cause me to doubt the truth of God's word. I have posted scriptures and posed questions which you
ignore and refuse to answer.
“Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.” Gen 2:7
This doesn’t sound like evolution. God could have chosen to create humans in any way He desired. However, Scripture records the particular way He did create—using both natural material (dust) and supernatural power to give humans a unique place in the universe. He put the breath of life in us not the nostrils of an ape.

[alanmolstad]

what is man made from?

What does the Bible say?

it says-that man is made from this earth.
The earth is the source.

We are a part of this earth that has come to life.

Its the same for all the animals like the great apes too!

They share this same source with humans.
All the animals also come from the same source, the earth.

This agrees with the source found in Evolution.




and...when you lookm at the vers you quoted..it says God " breathed " into man.

So your God has lungs?....like the Mormon god?
Do Christians teach that God has lips, and lungs and that God needs to breath to live?




Or.....

is the expression God "breathed " a symbol?

When we read that God "breathed" could it be said to be more a figure of speech?

perhaps a metaphor?




of course it is...

God does not have lips...or fingers, or lungs...God is Spirit.
So when we are talking about the way the bible talks about God,,,,ie like the wings of God, we dont mean that such things are to be taken as physical...for God is not a barn chicken!


Rather its intended to point us to something that we could never understand otherwise.

God created man...We are his handywork...and man has a spirit.



Nothing about that is against Evolution....its just a different way to talk about man.

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

what is man made from?

What does the Bible say?

it says-that man is made from this earth.
The earth is the source.

We are a part of this earth that has come to life.

Its the same for all the animals like the great apes too!

They share this same source with humans.
All the animals also come from the same source, the earth.

This agrees with the source found in Evolution.




and...when you lookm at the vers you quoted..it says God " breathed " into man.

So your God has lungs?....like the Mormon god?
Do Christians teach that God has lips, and lungs and that God needs to breath to live?




Or.....

is the expression God "breathed " a symbol?

When we read that God "breathed" could it be said to be more a figure of speech?

perhaps a metaphor?




of course it is...

God does not have lips...or fingers, or lungs...God is Spirit.
So when we are talking about the way the bible talks about God,,,,ie like the wings of God, we dont mean that such things are to be taken as physical...for God is not a barn chicken!


Rather its intended to point us to something that we could never understand otherwise.

God created man...We are his handywork...and man has a spirit.



Nothing about that is against Evolution....its just a different way to talk about man.

Alan,

Scripture records God speaking audibly to people in both the Old and New testaments, so I guess since God does not have lips or a tongue the bible is lying.
Gen 2:7 is clear, God created man fully human and then put life into him.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan,

Scripture records God speaking audibly to people in both the Old and New testaments, so I guess since God does not have lips or a tongue the bible is lying.
Gen 2:7 is clear, God created man fully human and then put life into him.

Mormons believe God is a man on a distant world....
im sure the mormon god has lips, hair, bad breath, and boy parts for all the endless sex he has to make all the spirit-babies...

I think that idea is crazy..........very crazy

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

Mormons believe God is a man on a distant world....

I think that idea is crazy..........very crazy

Agreed. The text is clear God is not a man no matter what the arrangement.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Agreed. The text is clear God is not a man no matter what the arrangement.

thus this backs-up what Im saying..

That you can have the Genesis story tell us that God "breathed" into the man, and understand it as a metaphor that is actually talking about the fact that man is the result of God's direct handy work...that we are who we are because of god...

Nothing about that is against evolution.


Evolution is a natural law that god created...just as water, as rain, as snow...
all are things that god has created to be here...all reflect His thinking...his 'hands"

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

thus this backs-up what Im saying..

That you can have the Genesis story tell us that God "breathed" into the man, and understand it as a metaphor that is actually talking about the fact that man is the result of God's direct handy work...that we are who we are because of god...

Nothing about that is against evolution.


Evolution is a natural law that god created...just as water, as rain, as snow...
all are things that god has created to be here...all reflect His thinking...his 'hands"

Alan,

Evolution cannot be a natural law, as it is at odds with the 2nd law of thermodynamics which is a proven, scientifically tested law
like the law of gravity, not a theory like evolution. At least be honest, evolution is a theory put forth by Darwin and nothing more.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan,

Evolution cannot be a natural law, as it is at odds with the 2nd law of thermodynamics which is a proven, scientifically tested law
like the law of gravity, not a theory like evolution. At least be honest, evolution is a theory put forth by Darwin and nothing more.

somewhere along the line,,,I simply have not gotten it across to people here, that "Alan does not defend evolution!"




Im not sure how else to post that fact?

Would Bigger letters help? Alan does not defend evolution!"




Im a Bible student...the bible i know...the Bible i quote in all my posts...the bible I can deal with.

thats also why no one dares ask me Bible type questions...cuz they know im up to speed on the bible....LOL

[alanmolstad]

kids at home:

watch how they never ask me,,,"Where does it say that in the bible?"

watch how they never want to talk about the Bible verses I use....never..




they dont dare...

[MichaellS]

I just supplied a comment w/verses. Where is my comment?

[alanmolstad]

post it again,,,,,

[alanmolstad]

and when you answer that.....I have your next question ready for you to chew on....

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

somewhere along the line,,,I simply have not gotten it across to people here, that "Alan does not defend evolution!"




Im not sure how else to post that fact?

Would Bigger letters help? Alan does not defend evolution!"




Im a Bible student...the bible i know...the Bible i quote in all my posts...the bible I can deal with.

thats also why no one dares ask me Bible type questions...cuz they know im up to speed on the bible....LOL

Alan,

you just said evolution is a natural law, any scientist will tell you it is not a natural law. Were you mistaken?
Why won't you admit that it is a theory? Too prideful or just misinformed.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan,

you just said evolution is a natural law, any scientist will tell you it is not a natural law. Were you mistaken?
Why won't you admit that it is a theory? Too prideful or just misinformed.

again you hope I dont notice you got no scripture again?......how sad

[disciple]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

again you hope I dont notice you got no scripture again?......how sad

Come on Alan, why would I need a scripture to point out your error about evolution being a natural law?

[alanmolstad]

to review the story of Jonah-


Jonah is on a ship.
There is a great storm.
The crew is scared, and they think they are all going to die.
They decide to draw lots to see who is at fault for the storm?

(Now Im not sure what it means to "draw-lot" but lets just say they draw straws.)


So lets say there were 10 people that were drawing straws.
What is the "chance" any of the people have of drawing the short straw?......answer, 1 out of 10 correct?


I think we all can see how each of the people on the ship in the storm had a 1out of 10 chance of drawing the short straw.
Thats the facts....thats science...

thats how men of science look at the world...they see the "chance" is not just dumb-luck, but rather it comes down to the laws or probability.
Nothing about drawing straws is magic....

Just as nothing about the science of the study of Evolution is magic.
There are rules that govern the outcomes in drawing straws just as there are tons and tons of rules that govern evolution...


But....to the student of the Bible...."WE".....we get to know a little bit information that the man of science does not get.

and that makes all the difference in both how we read and understand the story of Jonah, and in our study of evolution.





what do we know?
We know that God was in the drawing of the straws....and because god was in control, there was a 100% "chance' that Jonah would pick the short straw.

We know this.....

We know that god did not just leave this up to random luck....

We know that when Jonah picked the short straw it was all part of god's eternal plan that was set in stone and fixed before the universe was created.

Nothing was left to chance.



But at the same time...if a man of science were watching the men on the ship draw straws, he would have seen no giant hand reaching down out of the sky to control the straws.
To the man of science observing, there would have been no sign at all that god did any controlling of the outcome in any way!

Thus....you can have something that looks to be total dumb luck....and at the same time have God in full control.
Both things are totally true....and do not contradict each other at all...



So the life in the universe can be here via evolution.....and God can be in full control.

and both ideas are totally 100% true....

[alanmolstad]

What all this means is that the people that try to say that the Bible is against evolution are wrong.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by disciple

Alan,

and your
goading will not cause me to doubt the truth of God's word..

My goading is to get you to open up the Bible and read what Im pointing to , to see if what i have quoted is found in the text.


and so its not God's word I want you to call into question....I want you to doubt the teachings of the Young Earth Creationist...

They are the teachings we all should doubt...

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

You still got no Bible verses to back that stuff up yet?
after all this time you still cant find a single verse to support your views?

We are supposed to be ready "always" to give to every person a reason for our faith in things...

Member Jude has brought up a couple of times the likelihood of evolution being Demonic. After a certain extent in this hypothesis is undertaken, committed to, meditated upon, yes, I can see why the Apostles would have destroyed this consideration in the cradle:

“We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,” (II Cor 10:5)

Well, there is another verse. With this verse in mind, how do you sanitize lofty evolution to the obedience of Christ when it isn’t concerned with what the Apostles were taking about:

“For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified” (I Cor 2:2)

Woe, , Bang, another verse to sink that ship of Gospel contention.

[alanmolstad]

We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,” (II Cor 10:5)
This by the way is a verse defending my action in challenging the evil teachings of the YEc movement...

Im instructed to go forward!~....and you know i will...LOL

want to disagree with me?...fine...

Pick up the story of genesis that im quoting all the time and see if what im saying there is true?




Here is your first question...."What does it say at genesis 1:1 that god created first "in the beginning"?"



Notice Im not asking 'what did it mean?"
Im just asking what does it "say?"

[MichaellS]

Context is trashed Alan. You first.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

Where did you get that one verse I used?

dont you know that answer?

You use a verse you cant find now or something?...LOL

[alanmolstad]

You next question....

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

Now this term "heavens" has many meanings in different context in the Bible.

I was just wondering, could the term "Heavens" be understood to ever be talking about the entire canopy of stars in the night sky?