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Thread: Calling evolution "theistic" dosen't make it true.

  1. #326
    alanmolstad
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    The truth if evolution is found in the science...

    What Im saying is that regardless of if evolution is true or not, it yet does agree with the Scriptures.



    So Im not telling anyone that they have to believe in evolution...
    Imjust saying that the teachings of evolution agree with and walk hand in hand with the story of Genesis....

  2. #327
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    No it doesn't, , as explained. But how could we possibly know that by being immersed in drowning out it, the truth and our appeals? By preoccupation you have closed yourself off from the actual care we offered at length. I worked I thought fairly diligent to invite you to recover to what the scriptures want from us, but the same two features you offer tell us otherwise. By works, you'll continue to push the voice away and listen to your own congratulatory preoccupation, aka 'self-willed".

  3. #328
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaellS View Post
    No it doesn't, , as explained. But how could we possibly know that by being immersed in drowning out it, the truth and our appeals? By preoccupation you have closed yourself off from the actual care we offered at length. I worked I thought fairly diligent to invite you to recover to what the scriptures want from us, but the same two features you offer tell us otherwise. By works, you'll continue to push the voice away and listen to your own congratulatory preoccupation, aka 'self-willed".
    yes, well....Um, dont understand a word of that post,

    But regardless, I will push on this weekend to go over how both Genesis and evolution will work hand in hand with each other , to bring a more well-rounded understanding to us of early earth history....


    stay tuned....

  4. #329
    alanmolstad
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    in science what is the first thing that they say happened in history?.....the Big Bang.
    What we are told by science is that all the stars and all the other stuff up there in outer space came out of the big bang.

    The Bible tells us the same thing at Genesis 1:1....

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.



    In the bible the word "heavens" can mean a few things, and one of the things it can mean is to talk of all the stars and stuff up there in outer space...

    So right at the start of the genesis story we have agreement between Science and the Scriptures!!!!!

  5. #330
    alanmolstad
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    The Young Earthers want us to believe that the Earth was created before the sun...they also want us to believe that the "light" first talked about in the Genesis story was not from our sun....

    The Young Earthers are WRONG!



    The Bible teaches that the sun and stars were created in the beginning....the bible teaches that the Light talked about in all of the Genesis story is coming from the sun...
    Thats what the Bible says so thats what I believe!

    Science and the Bible agree!!!!!

  6. #331
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    No other Christians on this board agree with you Alan. You Are Wrong.

  7. #332
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    No other Christians on this board agree with you Alan. You Are Wrong.
    ....LOL...you mean the other guy?*


    What I have found is that I only need to make sure the bible agrees with me....


    one man with the Lord's Word on his side is not alone....not alone at all....



    I have taught a great many things on the topic of Evolution and Genesis...I have backed everything I have taught with Scripture...
    I have actually dared anyone to challenge me on any point I have raised...I have dared anyone that might disagree with me to step forward and open their Bible to see if what I have said appears in the text as I claim?

    So far.......not a single person has asked me, "Where does it say that in the bible?"......I believe the reason is that they see clearly that I do know what Im talking about, and that I have clearly backed-up what Im saying over and over with the Bible's text....

    They may not like it....they may still believe that I must somehow be wrong....but they dont dare try to open the Bible to prove Im wrong because they know that cant be done.











    * the statement you made was truly silly, for it would be like a Mormon telling me that there is some type of deep meaning to the fact that the vast majority of "Forum Guests" here disagree with my views on Smith, for I would just respond with - "You mean the Mormons ?"
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 06-20-2016 at 04:28 AM.

  8. #333
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    I'm Not trying to be a **** Alan, just so you know.

    I don't think you realize what believing in Evolution truly means. You are pushing an idea that totally denies The Creation work of God Almighty.



    When I said other "Christians" I was referring to the ones that have been posting in this thread like MachaellS and Disciple.

  9. #334
    alanmolstad
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    You don't dare challenge me over the text...so you attack evolution in the hope I will rush to defend evolution.

    But I don't defend evolution..
    I only have said it works with Genesis.


    So what will you do now?.
    Perhaps attack Darwin?
    Or perhaps point out how other guests also think I'm wrong?....oh wait you already tried that...

    Maby you could attack me personally. .or pretend to be worried about my soul?...that might help hide the fact you can't use the Bible to show where I'm wrong...


    Sure.....

  10. #335
    Senior Member jude1:3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    But I don't defend evolution.

    But that's exactly what you are doing.


    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Perhaps attack Darwin?
    Why do you want to defend him ?


    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Or perhaps point out how other guests also think I'm wrong?....oh wait you already tried that...

    And They Still think that you are wrong about this.




    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Maby you could attack me personally.

    I haven't done that and I don't want to do that Alan.



    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    .or pretend to be worried about my soul?.

    I actually do think that you are Unknowingly peddling a demonic Lie. I really do.

  11. #336
    alanmolstad
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    still you dont dare talk about Bible stuff......LOL

    Very interesting...
    Well I guess you know your limitations better than i do.








    Once again, I have taught a great deal about how Genesis and Evolution walk hand-in-hand and offer the Christian Bible student a very well-rounded understanding of early Earth history.
    genesis and evolution teach us about the same events in Earth's history, but do so from two different points of view.....this is why they may use different words and terms, but yet have a harmony between them.




    Lets turn to a few of the issues that I learned about from my study of the Bible,and see how it compares to what I learned from my time in Ken Ham's 8 week ORIGINS cl***?

    The Bible-
    If we open our Bible what we find is that the very first things God is said to have created in the "Heavens and the earth"
    We also know that the words "heavens" can mean a few things in different context, and we know that the term "Heavens can be used to talk about all the stars in the sky, as well as all the other things that were created out there in the darkness of the night sky. (stars like our sun, all the worlds, the galaxy etc)
    So the Bible says God created the stars first.


    In Evolution/science-

    In evolution and in science we learn that in the event of the Big bang all the things that came later were created. allthe Stars date from this one moment in time.
    And we learn that stars like our own sun are partof an unending evolution of star material that goesback Billions of years but it all started with the Big bang.
    So in evolution/science we find that stars are created first in the beginning.


    In Young Earth Creationism-
    In YEC we learn that God made a type of mysterious light that he used in the opening of Genesis, (a source-less light) and that later in the creation week God made the sun and the moon after he had made the earth...and that Stars are first made many days after the creation of the earth and seas.






    the conclusion?
    The conclusion is that Young Earth Creationism is a false teaching not based on the Bible!
    The conclusion is that science and the bible are in agreement.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 06-21-2016 at 04:59 AM.

  12. #337
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jude1:3 View Post
    No other Christians on this board agree with you Alan. You Are Wrong.
    Hello again! Right, the Dog and Pony will have to speak come judgment day for the truth omitting convenience now enjoyed.

  13. #338
    alanmolstad
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    This is one of my better posts on the topic.

    and has yet to be challenged I notice....
    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    still you dont dare talk about Bible stuff......LOL

    Very interesting...
    Well I guess you know your limitations better than i do.








    Once again, I have taught a great deal about how Genesis and Evolution walk hand-in-hand and offer the Christian Bible student a very well-rounded understanding of early Earth history.
    genesis and evolution teach us about the same events in Earth's history, but do so from two different points of view.....this is why they may use different words and terms, but yet have a harmony between them.




    Lets turn to a few of the issues that I learned about from my study of the Bible,and see how it compares to what I learned from my time in Ken Ham's 8 week ORIGINS cl***?

    The Bible-
    If we open our Bible what we find is that the very first things God is said to have created in the "Heavens and the earth"
    We also know that the words "heavens" can mean a few things in different context, and we know that the term "Heavens can be used to talk about all the stars in the sky, as well as all the other things that were created out there in the darkness of the night sky. (stars like our sun, all the worlds, the galaxy etc)
    So the Bible says God created the stars first.


    In Evolution/science-

    In evolution and in science we learn that in the event of the Big bang all the things that came later were created. allthe Stars date from this one moment in time.
    And we learn that stars like our own sun are partof an unending evolution of star material that goesback Billions of years but it all started with the Big bang.
    So in evolution/science we find that stars are created first in the beginning.


    In Young Earth Creationism-
    In YEC we learn that God made a type of mysterious light that he used in the opening of Genesis, (a source-less light) and that later in the creation week God made the sun and the moon after he had made the earth...and that Stars are first made many days after the creation of the earth and seas.






    the conclusion?
    The conclusion is that Young Earth Creationism is a false teaching not based on the Bible!
    The conclusion is that science and the bible are in agreement.

  14. #339
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    This is one of my better posts on the topic.

    and has yet to be challenged I notice....
    Those who promote the theory of evolution ( and that is what you are doing Alan) ask us to doubt God’s word concerning creation. This is exactly what the serpent suggested to Eve. That is what led to Adam and Eve’s rebellion in the Garden of Eden. They doubted what God had told them concerning what would happen if they disobeyed Him.

    When God finished the creation week, He pronounced everything “very good”. This theory which you say walks “hand in hand” with the bible wants us to believe that God created a less than perfect world, which then ‘evolved’ into something better. Was God mistaken when He pronounced His creation very good? Did the evolutionary process have to improve upon God’s initial *** of creation? This hardly describes the biblical God found in the Scriptures.

    The first book of the Bible, as well as all Scripture, can be taken at face value and trusted. We know Who the author is; we know His character, His love, and His mercy. We can trust His Word. The only record we have of the creation events is contained in the Bible. The Bible was written by “holy men of God who spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit”. 1 Peter 1:21 Therefore, we have God’s description of creation contained in the book of Genesis, and other places in the Bible.

    When you compromise the truth by allowing worldly theories to reinterpret the Bible, you open yourself up to the possibility of even more dangerous compromises. Consider that there are many who reject the idea of Jesus’ resurrection because secular science says that resurrections cannot happen.

  15. #340
    Senior Member MichaellS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    Those who promote the theory of evolution ( and that is what you are doing Alan) ask us to doubt God’s word concerning creation. This is exactly what the serpent suggested to Eve. That is what led to Adam and Eve’s rebellion in the Garden of Eden. They doubted what God had told them concerning what would happen if they disobeyed Him.

    When God finished the creation week, He pronounced everything “very good”. This theory which you say walks “hand in hand” with the bible wants us to believe that God created a less than perfect world, which then ‘evolved’ into something better. Was God mistaken when He pronounced His creation very good? Did the evolutionary process have to improve upon God’s initial *** of creation? This hardly describes the biblical God found in the Scriptures.

    The first book of the Bible, as well as all Scripture, can be taken at face value and trusted. We know Who the author is; we know His character, His love, and His mercy. We can trust His Word. The only record we have of the creation events is contained in the Bible. The Bible was written by “holy men of God who spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit”. 1 Peter 1:21 Therefore, we have God’s description of creation contained in the book of Genesis, and other places in the Bible.

    When you compromise the truth by allowing worldly theories to reinterpret the Bible, you open yourself up to the possibility of even more dangerous compromises. Consider that there are many who reject the idea of Jesus’ resurrection because secular science says that resurrections cannot happen.
    Good one. One I never considered.

    And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (Gen 2:2)

    “ended” means Done, “to be complete, at an end, finished, accomplished or spent”

    And “all” means “the whole, all” - Strong’s Concordance.

    But another one you brought up, something I don’t recall either of us discussing before – enticement.

    Could it be, if I inflate my imagination and convince myself 'surely “ended” doesn’t mean ended'.

    Just as you said, just as he said, just as all mankind has had to answer for – rebellion, that I have mentioned.


  16. #341
    alanmolstad
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    anyone find that one verse that teaches that the 7th day has ended yet?

    Nope?....you have not spotted it yet even after I challenged you a bunch of times to list the verse?'


    Have you checked behind the couch?.....

  17. #342
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    anyone find that one verse that teaches that the 7th day has ended yet?

    Nope?....you have not spotted it yet even after I challenged you a bunch of times to list the verse?'


    Have you checked behind the couch?.....
    Alan, I'm sure you understand that many things in Scripture are unprovable, yet you ask for proof.
    This tactic does not make you right but certainly shows that your desire is to be proven right. The
    truth and veracity of God's word is accepted by faith not by sight, and while God does give evidence
    for much of His word many things are accepted on faith alone. I cannot give you a verse that shows that
    the 7th day has ended, perhaps someone else can. When one considers context, the whole body of
    scripture and the reasonable and logical way words are used in other places in the scriptures to mean the
    same thing it is more than obvious that we can take God's word to be accurate. God is to be recognized as truthful
    no matter how many fallible and rebellious men disagree with him, dispute him, or viciously oppose him.
    His integrity is everlastingly stable.

  18. #343
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    I cannot give you a verse that shows that
    the 7th day has ended, perhaps someone else can....

    When one considers context,......
    Fine lets look at the whole context of the endings to the creation days.

    Does the writer of the genesis story list a very clear ending to the 1st day?....yes , read Genesis 1:5

    Does the writer of the Genesis story list a clear ending to days 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6?......yes, read Gen 1:7, 13,19,23,and 31.
    The writer goes way out of his way to make sure that we can know for sure that each day of the creation week that has p***ed was ended.

    You cant miss it.

    Its clearly written in black and white.

    No one can ever say that , "Day 4 has not ended yet" because you can list the very verse that proves the writer wanted us all to know that the 4th day has already ended.


    But what of the 7th day?

    Is there just a clearly written ending to the 7th day?...no

    Is there any verse in the whole Bible that teaches the 7th day has ended just as clearly as the writer chose to show us that the first 6 days have ended?.....no!


    The truth is this....that you can not prove the 7th Day of the creation week has ended by just using the Bible.
    Simply put, the Bible does not teach the 7th day has ended yet.....case-closed!

    I think this fact is behind your comment that perhaps someone else might be able to list the ending that you cant seem to find.
    You may be thinking that its only because you have overlooked some verse?...or perhaps you believe that someone else with lots and lots of "Bible Smarts" will be able to find the verse that ends the 7th day where as you missed it?

    But this is nothing for you to worry about, (you not being able to find the verse) for the truthis that there is No Such Verse!

    It does not matter how long you look for it, its simply not found in the Bible.

    So it dont matter how many "Bible Smarts" another person might have, they are never going to be able to find a verse that simply is not writen in the Bible....

    So the fact that you have failed to list such a verse is not anything against you or your scholarship.
    The truth is, had you tried to "force" an ending to the 7th Day where one does not appear you would have been guilty of "Adding to the Word Of God!"

    But admitting that you cant list the verse shows you respect the Scripture!


    So this then is the "CONTEXT"....
    The context is that we have a story with very clean and clear endings for the first 6 days of the creation week,,,AND.......and we dont have any ending to the 7th day in the whole story of Genesis, nor in the whole Old Testament, nor in the whole rest of the BIBLE!!!!!!

    Thats the context!

    and when we read the story in its correct context and not force it to say things it does not say, then we see that in this context there is no need at all to "force" the story to end the 7th day just because that makes us feel better.

    The context proves there is no ending to the 7th day.
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-21-2016 at 04:16 AM.

  19. #344
    Senior Member disciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Fine lets look at the whole context of the endings to the creation days.

    Does the writer of the genesis story list a very clear ending to the 1st day?....yes is read Genesis 1:5

    Does the writer of the Genesis story list a clear ending to days 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6?......yes, read Gen 1:7, 13,19,23,and 31.
    The writer goes way out of his way to make sure that we can know for sure that each day of the creation week that has p***ed was ended.
    So how long were each of these days that had a clear ending?

  20. #345
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by disciple View Post
    So how long were each of these days that had a clear ending?
    how long has the 7th day lasted so far without ending yet?.....we dont know.

  21. #346
    alanmolstad
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    where do we read in the Bible that god has ended his resting of the work of creation?.....Rev 21
    Last edited by alanmolstad; 07-20-2016 at 12:50 PM.

  22. #347
    alanmolstad
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    how long will the 7th day of Gods rest of the creation work last until we get to Rev 21?...........we dont know



    What do we know for sure by just sticking to the text of the Bible and not adding endings ?

    We know that there is no ending yet the 7th day.
    We know god is still resting of his creative work.

    But we also know that at Rev 21 we see God return to his work of creation.
    So we know for a fact that this 7th day of creation work rest that we are currently within, does end!

    There is a very clear ending of this time of rest....that is what we know for sure.


    But how long will the 7th day last yet?.....we dont know.

  23. #348
    alanmolstad
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    Thus...

    This is why when I ask anyone to list the verse that teaches the 7th day has ended no one can do that.

    The reason is that the Bible does not teach at any place that the 7th day has already ended.



    RATHER, what the Bible does clearly teach is that this day of God's rest from the work of creation "will end" !!!!!!!




    The Bible teaches that the resting "will end" and God will onbce again return to his creation work.





    Thus the Bible supports the idea that the day of rest will end.....not "has ended"......rather one day we do read that it clearly "will end".

  24. #349

  25. #350
    alanmolstad
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanmolstad View Post
    Thus...

    This is why when I ask anyone to list the verse that teaches the 7th day has ended no one can do that.

    .
    It does not matter what you try...

    You can read all kinds of Young Earth Creationism books looking for a listing for the ending to the 7th day....you will fail to find a listing.

    You can go visit all the YEC websites you can find looking for a verse that ends the 7th day....You will fail to find a listing there too.

    It does not matter if you even talked personally to Ken Ham (as I have done), even he cant list a verse that teaches the 7th day has ended.




    No one can!

    It's not a Bible teaching, and never was!

    Oh you may find tons and tons of text to read on the topic....and they will likely try to bury you under a pile of their reasons why the 7th day 'must" have ended by now...But if you stick to your guns and demand a clear verse that supports their idea that the 7th day ended?......zip.

    They got nothing to offer.

    They got no Bible verse that teaches what they sure want you to believe the bible teaches.

    This is because the idea that the 7th day ended is not based on the Text....it's based only on their needs.

    The YEC teachers, books, websites, all need the 7th day to have ended , because if it has not, if the Bible can truly be understood as written without their adding things to it, then all of the YEC teachings fall like a house of cards!


    The teaching that the 7th day of Genesis has already ended is a false teaching that was invented .

    It was invented by men who are not afraid to add to the Word of God, and to teach false teachings that help sell their books.

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